Not another MS261 thread...

[RandyMac]

I suspect they often are used for just that, but of course not by any AS members.....:hmm3grin2orange:

Oh, of course not, some think blue chains are cool looking.

 

[SawTroll]

......

The wonders never cease however in the mysterious world of bar fitments as what is a 64DL chain on a Husky or Dolmar suddenly needs to be shortened to a 63 DL chain on a damn Stihl :msp_cursing:

Therefore I can't use chains from my 5100-S as planned... ......

It doesn't really surprice me, as you often need extra dl (more than it says on the bar) on Stihl bars when using them on Husky mount saws - like 68dl on an 18" 66dl one.

 

[tdi-rick]

Oh, of course not, some think blue chains are cool looking.

and blue rails

not that I've ever done anything like that, as if I've never run out of loops near the end of a cut or anything :monkey:

 

[MCW]

Oh, of course not, some think blue chains are cool looking.

Well Stihl even treats their cutters with that cool looking blue discolouration so the average stihl user thinks it's normal

and blue rails

not that I've ever done anything like that, as if I've never run out of loops near the end of a cut or anything :monkey:

Me neither Rick, me neither...

 

[wyk]

Fantastic review, Mate. Uh, when does the video dubbed in English come out?

Oy! Oy! Oy!

 

[blsnelling]

You need to get rid of the 3/8 chain on it. I think that's your whole problem with it. Good .325 has good sized cutters on it. I seems like someone said that Stihl 3/8 and .325 have the same size cutters, but I've never verified that.

 

[MCW]

Fantastic review, Mate. Uh, when does the video dubbed in English come out?

Oy! Oy! Oy!

Queen's English old son

You need to get rid of the 3/8 chain on it. I think that's your whole problem with it. Good .325 has good sized cutters on it. I seems like someone said that Stihl 3/8 and .325 have the same size cutters, but I've never verified that.

I don't think that's it Brad. Even in the softer than pine Pawlonia it just doesn't seem to pull as I'd expected. I'm sure it's got more in it but at this stage I think it may just need more tanks through it or my 5100-S is a lot stronger than it should be. The 5100-S pulls 3/8" fine so there is no reason the 261 won't as well. Stihl 3/8" does seem to have slightly smaller cutters than other 3/8" chain like Carlton and Windsor but doubt they'd be as small as .325"?

If it has to run .325" then bye bye Mr 261

 

[SawTroll]

I agree, .325 chain (Oregon LP(X) or Stihl RSC) will mostly work better on a 50cc saw, including the 5100S and NE346xp, so why not on the MS261? :msp_wink:

I prefere the Oregon option for a couple of reasons, and none of them is price (here), but both are really good.

 

[MCW]

I agree, .325 chain (Oregon LP(X) or Stihl RSC) will mostly work better on a 50cc saw, including the 5100S and NE346xp, so why not on the MS261? :msp_wink:

I prefere the Oregon option for a couple of reasons, and none of them is price (here), but both are really good.

I really don't have a problem with .325" in nice clean green wood but unfortunately in dead and dirtier stuff it just won't hold up. For example the perfect place for this MS261 is in customer's backyards doing smaller takedowns etc - precisely the spot where you find sand filled termite chimneys etc that even kill 3/8" chipper quick smart. I'd rather be cutting for 4 minutes than replacing a loop of .325" every 2 minutes.

I'm not giving up on this saw yet and the only disappointment so far is it's apparent lack of power compared to my 5100-S. It's a very nice saw.

 

[MCW]

OK. I may have been a bit harsh with my criticism of the 261's power or lack thereof and yesterday may have been a bit hard to please considering some of the other saws that Wayne and I were running

I just went out to a very hard log I have and decided to just cut, cut, and cut. The 261 was fitted with 3/8" Stihl RSC with the 17" GB Pro Top bar. It actually pulled very well and after about 20 minutes of cutting it's back in my good books. It really is a nice saw to use - quiet, relatively torquey, very smooth, but the filter is still the main seller for me. The dual spikes are working well and another thing I hadn't mentioned is that I like the fact it takes the full size Stihl mount bar (GB SN - 12mm), unlike the 5100-S that takes the small Husky mount bar (GB UHL).

I may have been simply leaning into the poor little thing too hard yesterday and expecting too much from 50cc. In saying that though the 5100-S will still leave it behind in the power and throttle response department (unless it runs in and gains a bit more power) but the dual spikes and filter on the 261 will be the clincher. I think I'll be keeping this saw

 

[Andyshine77]

I've ran the 5100, 346, and the 261. If you have a 5100 that will out cut the 261 I want it lol. Seriously the 261 should walk on a 5100 with 325 or 3/8 chain, but I must agree .325 is better on 50cc saws. Stihl's RSC .325 is almost exactly the same as RSC 3/8. I'd also trim the limiters and give the H a little more fuel ans see how she feels.

A side note here. I've ran a good dozen 5100 and all of them run differently, some are strong and run like a 60cc saw and some run like 40cc saws, and I'm not the only one that's experienced this.

 

[MCW]

I've ran the 5100, 346, and the 261. If you have a 5100 that will out cut the 261 I want it lol. Seriously the 261 should walk on a 5100 with 325 or 3/8 chain, but I must agree .325 is better on 50cc saws. Stihl's RSC .325 is almost exactly the same as RSC 3/8. I'd also trim the limiters and give the H a little more fuel ans see how she feels.

A side note here. I've ran a good dozen 5100 and all of them run differently, some are strong and run like a 60cc saw and some run like 40cc saws, and I'm not the only one that's experienced this.

At this stage my 5100-S will definately outcut the 261 but you no takey
I've run the comparo in our timbers a while back on the 5100-S and although there isn't much in it 3/8" proved to cut quicker on the 17-18" bars with the added bonus of wearing better. I'm sure others would come to a different conclusion.

From a strictly technical standpoint why would the 261 walk all over the 5100-S? Just an honest question in regard to the saw's mechanics as I'm not really that familiar with the newer strato types and why they should actually be better in regard to power.

 

[Terry Syd]

Matt, it comes down to the stratos having a better time/area for the intake cycle. They can gulp a lot more air/fuel in a shorter period of time. In other words, you can move the same amount of fuel mixture into the crankcase in a shorter period (less duration).

If you ever get around to porting the 261, you may want to match the intake timing with the strato timing. The video I watched of the 261 showed the strato timing having a slightly longer duration than the intake timing. The shorter intake timing may be good for easy starting, and then the longer strato timing helping to reduce emissions at WOT. However, it will be the longer strato timing that will determine when base compression starts - and the shorter stock intake timing will be short-changing the crankcase at WOT.

 

[Andyshine77]

At this stage my 5100-S will definately outcut the 261 but you no takey
I've run the comparo in our timbers a while back on the 5100-S and although there isn't much in it 3/8" proved to cut quicker on the 17-18" bars with the added bonus of wearing better. I'm sure others would come to a different conclusion.

I completely agree. When we had the 50cc saw shoot out the 5100 wasn't as fast as, or strong as the 346. However the 5100 cut faster with 3/8 chain than it did with .325 and the 346 was the opposite. IMHO the two saws make power at different rpm's, the saws simply have different power curves.

From a strictly technical standpoint why would the 261 walk all over the 5100-S? Just an honest question in regard to the saw's mechanics as I'm not really that familiar with the newer strato types and why they should actually be better in regard to power.

No reason other than the fact we tested the 261 VS a new stock 346, and my MM 346, and the 261 was significantly stronger/faster. So from our testing the 5100 has the least power out of the big three.:msp_wink:

 

[Andyshine77]

Matt, it comes down to the stratos having a better time/area for the intake cycle. They can gulp a lot more air/fuel in a shorter period of time. In other words, you can move the same amount of fuel mixture into the crankcase in a shorter period (less duration).

If you ever get around to porting the 261, you may want to match the intake timing with the strato timing. The video I watched of the 261 showed the strato timing having a slightly longer duration than the intake timing. The shorter intake timing may be good for easy starting, and then the longer strato timing helping to reduce emissions at WOT. However, it will be the longer strato timing that will determine when base compression starts - and the shorter stock intake timing will be short-changing the crankcase at WOT.

In the right hands a 261 will run at least as strong as a 70cc saw, add a 440 carb and it will outrun stock 70cc saws.

 

[Terry Syd]

Andy, I agree on the big carb addition. When you can get that kind of 'gulp' factor from the time/area of the ports you really need to have a proper (bigger) carb to take advantage of it.

 

[Andyshine77]

Andy, I agree on the big carb addition. When you can get that kind of 'gulp' factor from the time/area of the ports you really need to have a proper (bigger) carb to take advantage of it.

Correct, however the difference was not too large vs the stock carb in this case, the porting itself provided 95% of the gains. Strato engines definitely have lots potential with the added ports and transfer.

 

[Terry Syd]

Hmm, was the porting done first and then the carb? Or, was the carb put on first and then the intake timing brought up just enough to provide the flow?

What I'm suggesting is going for the shortest intake timing possible in order to retain as much base compression and low end torque as possible.

 

[gmax]

I ran Matt's 261 yesterday, I thought it lacked power it bogged down in the cut too easily, Matt's 5100-S will beat it by a fair margin.
I do have video of the 261 (I'll upload later) people can judge for themselves.

 

[Andyshine77]

Hmm, was the porting done first and then the carb? Or, was the carb put on first and then the intake timing brought up just enough to provide the flow?

What I'm suggesting is going for the shortest intake timing possible in order to retain as much base compression and low end torque as possible.

Not sure, Brad would be the guy to ask.:msp_wink: