Not sure what to do

[Bushmans]

So I have had some saw trouble latley. Here goes.

I bought a blown 044 off ebay and put a BB in it and many of you have seen my rebuild thread. Thanks to everyone helping out. It turned out very good in my eyes. I spent quite a bit (over$400 getting it finished) and learned alot.

I decided I wanted to sell it and my 029 and get an MS362. I've been wanting one ever since I joined this site. I don't have the money to buy it and keep the other 2 as much as I wanted to. It was going to take the sale of both to make it to that amount. I wanted a brand new saw with a warranty.

I put em up on CL. Within an hour a guy called from 2 hours away and drove down the next day to buy the 029. I kind of wanted to sell them as a deal but regardless....
So I have this cherry in the backyard, about a 14 incher that I was going to cut into firewood anyways so I cut it down so anybody that came to buy the saws could have a little play time before hand. I would want to if I was gonna buy one. The guy loved the 029 and it came with a brand new 18" bar and a fairly new chain that I sharpened for him and filed the rakers too.
I was doing my best to talk him into buying the 044 but to no avail he wasn't interested. I asked him if he woud like to try it. Figured once he beat that cherry up for a minute he may reconsider and buy the 044 instead or both. He said ok he would try it.
I had a hard time starting it and it wouldn't stay running. I had just put a carb kit in it the day before and cut down a bunch of trees and t seemed fine. I was embarrased to say the least.

So he bought the 029 and away he went and I began a mad scramble to find out what was up with the saw.
I asked around on here and got the usual things, which I checked. Fuel system, air leaks in impulse or manifold. I tore the entire saw apart . Everything. I was dumbfounded.

Mind you I really don't know much about saws. I can clean em up and bolt on a new top end and throw some seals in it but I am not a saw DR. I was very frustrated and I had a ton of wood left to cut before spring gets here. I could not sink any more money into the saw. (only money I had was from the 029)
If did then I wouldn't have any to put towards a new saw if this one still wouldn't work. Rock and a hard spot.
I immediatley pulled the ad from CL. Popped one up on Ebay and put it in as parts not running and explained in the details that I could start it but it would not run. Had a guy email me and wanted my rock bottom $. I needed $250 to get a new saw. He said fine he would be there at 5 with cash. I changed the ad on ebay up to like $500 (wasn't familiar with pulling the ad) so no one would buy it.
He never showed. I relisted the next morning after figuring out how to pull the ad.
Started auction at $200 or buy it now $350. Guy messages me, wants to know rock bottom. I tell him $250.
I tell him it back fires and won't stay running. Piston and cylinder look ok. Told hm eveythinig I did to figure out what was wrong. He said don't worry about it if I can't get it running I'll just throw it up on the shelf wth the 40 or so I have now. I told him I just had to get rid of it and get another saw.
I had another AS member that was interested and I told him I was waiting on him first. He said if I pulled the add and sent him a paypal invoice he would send me the mony that intsant.

I did it. I took a huge loss due to my inexperience and frustration. Sometimes it costs money to learn. I accepted that fact.
So I shipped it out to him that very same day and he got it today.

He sent me an email today that said he pulled it and it backfired and he knew right away the key was sheared even though I checked it and the key was still in there and the slots were lined up. ???
He said the clutch cover was cracked in 2 (not when it left here) and the crank seal was leaking and the flywheel had screwed up the crank shoulder and it would never hold a flywheel secure again. He was not happy and said it is now only a parts saw.
He paid $250.
Had I have known it had a bad flywheel and/or crank end I may have tried to fix it myself. I most certainly would have listed it in the description.
I feel like I cheated someone and it's not sitting well.
The devil guy on one shoulder tells me to delete his email because he knew it wasn't running and he knew all the symptoms and a crank and flywheel are not that expensive. Maybe he thought it was gonna be a quick fix and that is why he tried to get me to pull the ad and sell it to him as fast as possible.

The angel guy tells me to email him back and refund his money and have him ship the saw back.

I was going Friday to buy my new saw.

I'm not a cheat and now I feel like one.

So what would you do?
Also what do you think this saw is worth?
:bang:

 

[excess650]

<snip> Started auction at $200 or buy it now $350. Guy messages me, wants to know rock bottom. I tell him $250.
I tell him it back fires and won't stay running. Piston and cylinder look ok. Told hm eveythinig I did to figure out what was wrong. He said don't worry about it if I can't get it running I'll just throw it up on the shelf wth the 40 or so I have now. I told him I just had to get rid of it and get another saw.
I had another AS member that was interested and I told him I was waiting on him first. He said if I pulled the add and sent him a paypal invoice he would send me the mony that intsant.

I did it. I took a huge loss due to my inexperience and frustration. Sometimes it costs money to learn. I accepted that fact.
So I shipped it out to him that very same day and he got it today.

He sent me an email today that said he pulled it and it backfired and he knew right away the key was sheared even though I checked it and the key was still in there and the slots were lined up. ???
He said the clutch cover was cracked in 2 (not when it left here) and the crank seal was leaking and the flywheel had screwed up the crank shoulder and it would never hold a flywheel secure again. He was not happy and said it is now only a parts saw.
He paid $250.
Had I have known it had a bad flywheel and/or crank end I may have tried to fix it myself. I most certainly would have listed it in the description.
I feel like I cheated someone and it's not sitting well.
The devil guy on one shoulder tells me to delete his email because he knew it wasn't running and he knew all the symptoms and a crank and flywheel are not that expensive. Maybe he thought it was gonna be a quick fix and that is why he tried to get me to pull the ad and sell it to him as fast as possible.

The angel guy tells me to email him back and refund his money and have him ship the saw back.

I was going Friday to buy my new saw.

I'm not a cheat and now I feel like one.

So what would you do?
Also what do you think this saw is worth?
:bang:

He wanted it, talked you DOWN in price, insisted that you sell it now...you had told him it had some issues, so let him "throw it up on the shlef with the 40 others." It could well be a case of him trying to talk you into a partial refund so as to get the saw even cheaper. You don't KNOW that he isn't BSing you, and it may well just need a key to hold the flywheel on the crank.

IF you decide to buy it back, ONLY refund what he paid, and NOT the shipping.

 

[Ironworker]

Go get yourself a new saw; He new what he was doing, you think if it was an easy fix that he would offer you more money, no, he would have gotten a good deal.

 

[mattinky]

+1 to both replies

 

[Bushmans]

Thanks for the feedback! That is true I don't really know for sure if that is truly what is wrong with it.
I was OK cutting my losses at 250. I have overcme that reality just need to set my conscience at ease.
I think maybe he thought he was gonna get a quick fix and in all honesty I figured he probably would after he told me he had that many saws.
I would have to imagine he has some parts laying around and before you know it would have a running saw and could probably turn it for a decent profit.
I truly wish him the best and hope he gets it fixed (cheap). At least all my efforts wouldn't be "just for a parts saw".

 

[procarbine2k1]

I had a well known AS member sell me an 051 as an 075. Told him when I got it, he said he would make it right but that he didnt have the money at the time. I implied that I would send it down the road as a 051 parts saw, and he told me that he would pay the difference between what I bought it for, and what it sold for (as a 051). I sold the saw, took a $90 loss (better than I thought it would do). In the mean time, he hasnt posted (but has signed on) and refused to reply to any message or PM. Its a tough spot, especially with a well known member. I wear my heart on my sleeve, and assume that he is in a worse spot but cant understand the lack of communication. I am out 90 bucks, but have done my best to keep the deal personal (it isnt easy).

In your case, you sold a parts saw- as a parts saw. He will have more invested than he thought he would, and he is disappointed. He took a gamble on his own assumption that it would be an easy fix, and loss- but not due to your lack of information or effort. His disappointment should be on his own conscience or buyers remorse, not that he was mislead or cheated. There is a big difference between what I previously posted, and what you did (no wrong). I would probably be feeling like you are, even though neither one of us should. Look at it from his side and yours, and hopefully you will soon own a new MS362. Sometimes it isnt easy to let a bad deal go, even though you might feel for the guy- know that it wasnt on your lack of doing.

 

[Bushmans]

Just wanted to clear up the fact that the buyer was NOT an AS member. (Well he could be but he never told me.)
The other guy that wanted to buy it was an AS member but he was working another deal that day and if that deal fell through than he would've bought the saw. We spent a considerable amount of time PM each other that day. He seemed to be a very nice guy! I wonder how he would respond if he had gotten the saw?
Thrilled? Pissed? Not surprised?

 

[procarbine2k1]

Just wanted to clear up the fact that the buyer was NOT an AS member. (Well he could be but he never told me.)
The other guy that wanted to buy it was an AS member but he was working another deal that day and if that deal fell through than he would've bought the saw. We spent a considerable amount of time PM each other that day. He seemed to be a very nice guy! I wonder how he would respond if he had gotten the saw?
Thrilled? Pissed? Not surprised?

Hard to say. Deals generally go for the better here (reputation on the line), but when they go south... they go SOUTH.

 

[Saw Dr.]

If you get in a jam for cutting wood because you decided to refund the guy, post up here. I have a bunch of saws around as do many other members. AS is about helping others (sometimes.) We won't let you freeze. I'd like to see pics of the damaged crank end. What is to say that he didn't try to use a key too thin, and egg it up himself??? Either way, the taper of the crank is what holds the FW, NOT the key. Key just lines it up when you install. I have, on more than one occasion, intentionally removed and/or sheared a key to advance timing.

 

[Bushmans]

If you get in a jam for cutting wood because you decided to refund the guy, post up here. I have a bunch of saws around as do many other members. AS is about helping others (sometimes.) We won't let you freeze. I'd like to see pics of the damaged crank end. What is to say that he didn't try to use a key too thin, and egg it up himself??? Either way, the taper of the crank is what holds the FW, NOT the key. Key just lines it up when you install. I have, on more than one occasion, intentionally removed and/or sheared a key to advance timing.

Thanks Dr.
I have plenty of wood but I have a tops job that I have to have finished up ASAP. I have about 4-5 more cord to get cut and hauled out. If I get that done in time than I have the option of helping another friend get his tops cleaned up and he said every time I help him I haul a truckload home for myself.
All these tops have been hanging around for about 3-4 years now.

What is weird is I popped the flywheel off to check the key and reinstalled it, sliding the slot right over the key. I only pulled it a few times after that before caving in and it was on there good and secure. I would think if it had been moving it would have slipped right off. It didn't. Beats me!

 

[hoeyrd2110]

he bought it it's his...personally i don't sell parts saws for this reason unless its going to another chainsaw guy who knows what hes doing and what to expect(anything could be wrong) with a parts saw. i usually trade em away but can understand your specific situation. i've had guys call me days later "hey this thing leaks oil!" or "i pulled it 2000 times now gas is coming out of the muffler i want my money back" 9/10 times i help them through there issue. but some have gotten nasty...i tell them to take it up somewhere else. i don't have time or patience to deal with customers angry at me over their own incompetence.

plus you really need that shiny new 362:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Jacob J.]

The crank is made of material much, much harder than anything in the flywheel. So I'm calling BS on the flywheel screwing up the crank shoulder. The flywheel is made to be sacrificial as compared to the crank. This guy either doesn't know what he's talking about or fulla baloney.

 

[misterfreindly]

Conscience

Bushmans, ease your conscience, friend. You did right.:msp_thumbup:

 

[sgt7546]

I'm trying to do the math on this. You told him saw was not running. He receives from you a non running saw. Adds up correct to me. No refund required.


Sent from my screen to yours.

 

[Guido Salvage]

The crank is made of material much, much harder than anything in the flywheel. So I'm calling BS on the flywheel screwing up the crank shoulder. The flywheel is made to be sacrificial as compared to the crank. This guy either doesn't know what he's talking about or fulla baloney.

What JJ says.... Think about how easy it is to break a fin off a flywheel, take a 4 pound hammer to the end of a junk crankshaft sometime and see how hard it is to egg it up.

 

[mrnecsteve]

You told him it wasnt working. If he had told you he found the spark plug was off.......would you have expected him to send you more money?
I suspect not.
Buy that new stihl...and ask if they still have the warranty deal for two years (buy a sixpack of oil)
Until you get better at working on them........practice on a clunker saw!!!!:msp_biggrin:

 

[Bushmans]

Well he emailed be back and threatened a dispute.
Here is what he said.

jeffrey , i emailed you immediateally after saw arrived on monday and i got to look it over a bit .. as i states in 1st email the flywhhel side of crank has been spun , key broke , threads buggard.. this makes the bottom end of saw unuseable and the value around 75.00 to no more than 100.00 . i will give yoou too afternoon today to either refund the money and i will ship the saw back or to partially refund money for saws value at around 75 to 100 dollor value .. i try to ne fair but also need to have useable items .. let me know by 2:00 today eastern time what you want to do and i will accomadate you .. i will have to pursue the other option if i don't hear from you by then which i always despise to do , david

 

[Bushmans]

Here is what I answered

Dave,
I listed the saw as not running/for parts. I told you what it was doing. I had no idea what was wrong with it.
If you had found out it was a loose spark plug would you have sent me more money?
I didn't think so.
I had the flywheel off and I took it off with a 1/4" ratchet. I don't believe you had to do it with an impact. I am not an idiot. You can't tell me this saw is not repairable now that you know what is wrong with it.
As I stated before, the listing said not running/for parts. I don't know how you can dispute this.
I checked prices on a new crank and flywheel and they are not that expensive.
There is still money to be made.
No refund will be made.

 

[nmurph]

If you do not have the FW nut snugged against the FW and the FW securely on the crank, it is possible to shear the key by zapping it with an impact (don't ask). Regardless, a sheared FW key isn't a big deal but could be the cause of the runnability issues you mention. I have taken off hundreds of FW with an impact and have never had an issue. Unless you buggered the crank threads, I don't think you owe him anything. Even if you did, crank threads can be chased into shaped or they can be resized. On this issue, I wouldn't give him a dime.

You certainly did not damage the crank shoulder when you installed the FW even if it were done incorrectly. As JJ et al mentioned, cranks are some very hard metal.

You certainly don't owe him for the seal issue, even if it does exist.

I can't address the clutch cover.


If you like the saw and are willing to have another go at it, refund his money less the shipping. The let us help you sort your saw out. I prefer a 440 over a 362.

 

[Jacob J.]

I'd be interested in knowing this guy's e-mail address so I can put him on my "blocked forever" list.