Opinions wanted: is a higher HP saw more dangerous than a lower?

[olyman]

I much prefer getting tired from moving the saw from one cut to the next over getting tired trying to make a cut with an undersized saw.

muwhahahhahhhahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[farmguywithasaw]

muwhahahhahhhahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Must be a Batman villain lol

 

[olyman]

Must be a Batman villain lol

just responding to a idiot...…..

 

[ElevatorGuy]

An*

 

[John Lyngdal]

When it comes to a tip induced kickback it becomes a balance between velocity and momentum. A short light bar will kickback with a higher speed, but less momentum while a long heavy bar will have a lower speed, but increased momentum.
The arc length of the bar tip to tissue is increases by the square of the bar length. Shorter bars would seem to have a higher speed and less distance to travel to get back to you. The last factor I can think of is leverage, using the bar tip as the long end of the lever, the rear handle at the short end of the leaver, and the wrap handle the pivot point. The long bar would have the leverage advantage against the user in most cases, the glaring exception to this would be top handle climbing saws. To me, they are the scariest saws I own. If they kickback, the speed is high, the distance is short, and you have little leverage to resist the momentium of the bar. Somewhere there is a YouTube video of someone trimming vines with a top handle saw along a chainlink fence, the speed of that saw coming back on the operator puts a chill down my spine.

 

[toadman]

Have you saw the video with the Romanian arborist in England?

Lighter saws have the unfortunate problem of people thinking they can do things they shouldn't, and when things go wrong they go really bad really quick. It's that small and light = toy mentality and why I personally think the battery powered saws in hardware stores is a bad trend.

Larger equipment usually gives pause to think, however its back to training/skill/experience. Yes, you can pinch a bar, but you are likely expecting it might happen and position or wedge accordingly. That rare, unexpected chain break ... that's what gear is for and you appreciate after it all files back at you!

Kobalt 80v, Milwaukee m18, and Harbour Freight 80v atlas battery electric saws (in ready to use condition), all weigh within a couple pounds of the 462 full of fluids & wearing a 20" light bar.

My 462 full & ready to go is only 15 lbs 5oz.
My Milwaukee m18 is 14 lbs 11oz.
Kobalt 80v 14lbs 2oz.
Atlas 80v 14lbs 7 oz.
Dewalt 60v 13lbs 11 oz.

All weights on a certified postage scale at work.
I certainly tire less with the 462...
The electric saws cut slow & I find often require a bit of force with the slow chain speed to bite hard or frozen wood, where the gas saws don't require any input beyond putting them to the log & pulling the throttle.

I know there are lighter saws, but most electric saws are freakin heavy compared to a comparably powered gas saw.

 

[sb47]

More power increases the forces of kick back. In my opinion is the weight of a saw that causes problems. A heavy saw takes more energy and strength and tends to wear the operator out faster. Once fatigued your chances of making a mistake gets higher. It depends on what your doing.

 

[lone wolf]

When it comes to a tip induced kickback it becomes a balance between velocity and momentum. A short light bar will kickback with a higher speed, but less momentum while a long heavy bar will have a lower speed, but increased momentum.
The arc length of the bar tip to tissue is increases by the square of the bar length. Shorter bars would seem to have a higher speed and less distance to travel to get back to you. The last factor I can think of is leverage, using the bar tip as the long end of the lever, the rear handle at the short end of the leaver, and the wrap handle the pivot point. The long bar would have the leverage advantage against the user in most cases, the glaring exception to this would be top handle climbing saws. To me, they are the scariest saws I own. If they kickback, the speed is high, the distance is short, and you have little leverage to resist the momentium of the bar. Somewhere there is a YouTube video of someone trimming vines with a top handle saw along a chainlink fence, the speed of that saw coming back on the operator puts a chill down my spine.

You can overpower a small saw kickback more than a higher horsepower saw you get cut when you one hand it and it kicks back. Try one handing an 044 in a tree and get a kickback then tell me about it.. More power is more kick back no doubt!

 

[CausticUC]

Kobalt 80v, Milwaukee m18, and Harbour Freight 80v atlas battery electric saws (in ready to use condition), all weigh within a couple pounds of the 462 full of fluids & wearing a 20" light bar.

My 462 full & ready to go is only 15 lbs 5oz.
My Milwaukee m18 is 14 lbs 11oz.
Kobalt 80v 14lbs 2oz.
Atlas 80v 14lbs 7 oz.
Dewalt 60v 13lbs 11 oz.

All weights on a certified postage scale at work.
I certainly tire less with the 462...
The electric saws cut slow & I find often require a bit of force with the slow chain speed to bite hard or frozen wood, where the gas saws don't require any input beyond putting them to the log & pulling the throttle.

I know there are lighter saws, but most electric saws are freakin heavy compared to a comparably powered gas saw.

That is all true; my issue with the convenient battery saws is the lack of skill. How many homeowners are going to stand underneath whatever they are cutting because its like a saber or reciprocating saw and they figure it works the same way?

 

[Woodslasher]

Does the chance for kickback, push back, general safety hazards increase with a larger, heavier saw?

All things such as chain, bar, maintenance, etc being equal, is a 462 more dangerous than a 261?

Does your answer change based on the level of experience of the operator?

In my opinion, the chance for kickback does not increase with a larger, heavier, more powerful saw. Push back, on the other hand, does increase with a larger, heavier, more powerful saw. My MS 250 can push back all it wants but I can overpower it with minimal effort. My ported 272 can and has overpowered me and rammed the rear handle into me when the upper half of the chain pinched. As for general safety hazards, I've had more close calls with a Super XL and a 346 than I have with my 298, 045, and 288 combined. Yes, my answer varies depending on the operator's skill.

There is essentially 2 “types” of kickback. One is when the tip of the bar catches on a piece of wood and the force redirects the bar to go flying at your head in an arc. This is what the chain brake was designed to help with. The other is if the wood pinched the chain on top of your bar forces the saw out and towards you. Bucking pants or chaps is a must. The latter kickback is much more prevalent in a high hp saw. Smaller saws just stall the clutch. However a higher hp saw can run a longer bar so if bucking firewood for example you can cut from a standing position. Not hunched over which in my opinion is better for your back and is also safer for the first mentioned kickback. As stated proper safety practices, technique, and ppe are the best defenses.

+1 Chaps are well worth the money. I was walking down the trunk of a pine limbing it with a 346 and I couldn't see that the trunk forked right ahead of me. I stepped where I thought the trunk was, but the trunk wasn't there and I stumbled forward slightly. I recovered almost immediately but in those 5 seconds I accidentally gunned the saw, which gently bumped my leg and ate a little bit of my chaps. If I wasn't wearing those chaps I would have gotten a nice 10 inch long slice in my upper thigh. That experience has forever endeared chaps to me as they are a lot cheaper than a typical trip to the E.R.

 

[stihl86]

Given the choice, I would much rather get killed with a MS880 instead of a 009.

 

[Lionsfan]

I was going to invite him down to my place to try out a 70cc saw and a couple different bars, but he's 3hours plus bridge fair away. Most of the other Mitten state fellas are even further.

 

[Westboastfaller]

All things such as chain, bar, maintenance, etc being equal, is a 462 more dangerous than a 261?

Yes, it's got more ways to win.

Does the chance for kickback, push back, general safety hazards increase with a larger, heavier saw?

There's a few things to factor in
There is mitigaters & agrivaters to both sides.

And your next question please?

Does your answer change based on the level of experience of the operator?

Irrelevancy

 

[Westboastfaller]

Given the choice, I would much rather get killed with a MS880 instead of a 009.

Euthanasia? Can you get a licence? I got Husqvarna? Have saw, will travel. I mean, I could get a MS880 if it would mean that much to ya?

 

[Cantdog]

Given the choice, I would much rather get killed with a MS880 instead of a 009.

Yep..........makes a much better story at yer wake......

 

[Cantdog]

After reading this whole thread I believe it boils down to how heavily armed you are and your knowledge of what to expect from the saw/bar/chain combination you are using. If you are lightly armed go with a safety chain on whatever saw you use and never try to tip cut as you'll be frustrated. A firm grip on your saw at all times is your friend......if it's running...it's a dangerous tool.....and surprisingly dangerous even if not running as well.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Yep..........makes a much better story at yer wake......

Lol
Not if it fell and cruched him..haha

 

[Cantdog]

Lol
Not if it fell on him and cruched him..haha

Ah....well stihl a good story.....and that's what counts.....as it is really all any of us have once we've left this "veil of tears".....LOL!!

 

[Westboastfaller]

Ah....well stihl a good story.....and that's what counts.....as it is really all any of us have once we've left this "veil of tears".....LOL!!

I hope you all forgive my antics...no wait a minute,, Antics are suppose to be funny?
Ok...my dry British humour...lol

I'm trying to stay out of it but it's a good subject

I'll put this question to the group
Besides raw power shooting a saw out of a cut then what propels a kickback?
Is it speed or powwa?

 

[johnsayen]

I’ve only been a member for a short while but it’s clear this place is for me.