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UMMM fiddle block !
Port-a-Wrap, Bollards, Etc.
- Thread starter RacerX
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TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
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I have one. Thanks I was looking for the drooling smile but maybe that is a different site. As in Homer Simpson "doughnut"!
TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
h: winchman
ArboristSite Member
stein thread at ********
I recently posted pics of my newly acquired Stein Dual at ********. You can go there and see a removal and a preservation pruning.
Happy to answer any questions you may have about the $1300 device.
I have a ton of experience with the Hobbs and GRCS as well, so fire away.
I recently posted pics of my newly acquired Stein Dual at ********. You can go there and see a removal and a preservation pruning.
Happy to answer any questions you may have about the $1300 device.
I have a ton of experience with the Hobbs and GRCS as well, so fire away.
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GRCS I think it has more to offer.
TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
But only by a hair.. the hobbs is awfully close.. the main advantage of the grcs is the mechanical advantage in lifting, and the ability to use a cordless drill to drive it -- all be it an option. May list self tailing as one as well..
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:agree2: Now if the HOBBS has self-tailing game on!
winchman
ArboristSite Member
It's pretty early for me to say, since I've only done two jobs with it, but the Stein has two bollards, thus an advantage over the other two devices. It also can do the things the other two devices do and is significantly less expensive, so today my vote goes with the Dual.
Oh yeah and the WLL is twice the Hobbs, which is pretty good, considering our Hobbs is bent six different ways after 10+ years of use.
That is not what I was expecting you to say. It will be interesting to see if your opnion changes in the next 6mo to a year. We just got our GRCS last fall and I cant imagine a device being better than that.
winchman
ArboristSite Member
To each his own opinion. I like all three devices, and the lifting capability of the Good is unsurpassed and easy to use.
However, I just don't have that many opportunities to lift branches. I like to balance limbs and tip-tie stuff all day, but most of the time, hand-tight is enough. Lifting things out of crotches when they get stuck is one definitely use and can save a lot of time and effort, but this situation can usually be avoided with a tag line.
Like you said, only time will tell.
Customcuts
ArboristSite Operative
I like the dual line capabilities of the Stein dual it also has an extending arm that is used to pre-tension lines and some lifting.... When I first saw the Stein I wanted it so bad but it wasn't available for purchase in the states, and me being a metal fabricator for 7 yrs I couldn't resist the urge to build my own. So I did and tested it out with some logs I hoisted into a tree with a jeep and block. After I got all the kinks worked out I had it powder coated and it has worked excellent. It is capable of running2 lines too so I'm happy with it. I have used a prussik cord and a biner to tension the lines and done some lifting too...I have rigged out some 30+ft limbs with it with no problems. Still want a grcs tho.:msp_thumbup:
Big Wood chucked installed! - YouTube
Big Wood chucked installed! - YouTube
mattfr12
The Bulldog
The hobbs is the shiznit. thats all i mess with anymore. ill strap that sucker to a 10 inch diameter pine or a 60 oak it gets used on them all when rope rigging comes into play. the grcs is sweet and the price is probably right. but every time i look at its price tag i always pass.
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm about to purchase a hobbs in the next couple of months. I've been looking and thinking on it a while, and have borrowed and used the hobbs and GRCS. Even if the price was the same, I think I'd be going with the hobbs. The GRCS is a great tool for sure, but I think it's a bit beyond the capabilities of my groundies.
The self tailing function is overplayed in my opinion. It really only self tails well on 9/16 despite claiming 5/8 with its modified springs on the self tailing mechanism. Once I'm cracking out a device like that I really am more in the 5/8 or even 3/4 rope territory. Self tailing winches aren't all that brilliant generally. Because the rope size varies, and the diameter of the self tailer isn't going to match the diameter of the drum, it ends up fighting itself. That's a minor thing to me though... The big plus of the GRCS is the two speed winch with its awesome lifting power, and the excellent winch handle (why is the hobbs handle so awful?) I think it would be just as good without the self tailer. The big downside to the GRCS (and what keeps me from buying one) is that they seem to be pretty fussy about slack and lowering off. Yacht winches are not designed for rapid controlled release of lines under heavy load.
Easing a rope off a severely loaded line on a boat is a delicate operation, because if you aren't careful you easily end up with the turns riding over each other, then you are screwed. And that's on a boat with a very stable fairlead. The hub is generally textured for grip on winches. For minor adjustments to sail trim you can ease a little out of the line, but it's a 2 handed procedure.... you hold the tail in one hand while with the left hand you manually rotate the coil stack on the hub. You don't 'slip the line' through your hand as we do on a porty or whatever. When lines are completely eased it's generally done mid turn, after the wind has spilled from the sail and the tension on the line has eased. If the line needs to be dropped in an emergency most good yachtsman will ease the load off the sail by steering into the wind before dumping the line. If you dump the line on a fully loaded sail, it does end up jamming on the winch from time to time, so that is not a common practice. Once it happens a knife sometimes has to come out to save the boat in storm conditions.
Easing tensioned lines rapidly in a controlled fashion is what these devices are about. I think that style of lowering just doesnt suit the yacht style winch. A few guys I've spoken to have had the line ride over itself and seize while lowering. It happens mostly while negative rigging (which they say you shouldn't use the GRCS for anyway) or whenever there is slack then a shock load. A good linesman will quickly take up the slack, then ease off. A good linesman is hard to come by.
For those reasons, I'm going with the hobbs. I don't need to do so much big time lifting, pre tensioning is quite enough for most of my needs. Even without the winch handle, a few guys can put way more tension with a hobbs or GRCS than you can ever dream of putting on a porty or similar. That makes all the difference with branches over roof's which is what I deal with a lot. What I do at the moment with those sort of branches is keep them down to a manageable load, and have a few guys manually lift and lower - no friction device. With a hobbs, the guys can all pull to tension, then one guy can manage the load while the others run the tag lines. The hobbs device seems much less likely to override the line, its just a bit simpler.
As an aside, if you do ever use fiddle blocks dont run them vertically as in the video. Run the lowering line through a pulley at the base of the tree and redirect it to another tree/vehicle whatever. That way you can walk the fiddle block attachment point out as far as you need, and you can get a few guys pulling on the linhie. Have your porty rigged off the second tree too, so when you've lifted enough, just wrap and then release the fiddle block. Rinse and repeat for infinite lift. Beats the hell out of using a jamison pole to shuffle a prussik 2 feet vertically at a time as shown in the vid.
Shaun
The self tailing function is overplayed in my opinion. It really only self tails well on 9/16 despite claiming 5/8 with its modified springs on the self tailing mechanism. Once I'm cracking out a device like that I really am more in the 5/8 or even 3/4 rope territory. Self tailing winches aren't all that brilliant generally. Because the rope size varies, and the diameter of the self tailer isn't going to match the diameter of the drum, it ends up fighting itself. That's a minor thing to me though... The big plus of the GRCS is the two speed winch with its awesome lifting power, and the excellent winch handle (why is the hobbs handle so awful?) I think it would be just as good without the self tailer. The big downside to the GRCS (and what keeps me from buying one) is that they seem to be pretty fussy about slack and lowering off. Yacht winches are not designed for rapid controlled release of lines under heavy load.
Easing a rope off a severely loaded line on a boat is a delicate operation, because if you aren't careful you easily end up with the turns riding over each other, then you are screwed. And that's on a boat with a very stable fairlead. The hub is generally textured for grip on winches. For minor adjustments to sail trim you can ease a little out of the line, but it's a 2 handed procedure.... you hold the tail in one hand while with the left hand you manually rotate the coil stack on the hub. You don't 'slip the line' through your hand as we do on a porty or whatever. When lines are completely eased it's generally done mid turn, after the wind has spilled from the sail and the tension on the line has eased. If the line needs to be dropped in an emergency most good yachtsman will ease the load off the sail by steering into the wind before dumping the line. If you dump the line on a fully loaded sail, it does end up jamming on the winch from time to time, so that is not a common practice. Once it happens a knife sometimes has to come out to save the boat in storm conditions.
Easing tensioned lines rapidly in a controlled fashion is what these devices are about. I think that style of lowering just doesnt suit the yacht style winch. A few guys I've spoken to have had the line ride over itself and seize while lowering. It happens mostly while negative rigging (which they say you shouldn't use the GRCS for anyway) or whenever there is slack then a shock load. A good linesman will quickly take up the slack, then ease off. A good linesman is hard to come by.
For those reasons, I'm going with the hobbs. I don't need to do so much big time lifting, pre tensioning is quite enough for most of my needs. Even without the winch handle, a few guys can put way more tension with a hobbs or GRCS than you can ever dream of putting on a porty or similar. That makes all the difference with branches over roof's which is what I deal with a lot. What I do at the moment with those sort of branches is keep them down to a manageable load, and have a few guys manually lift and lower - no friction device. With a hobbs, the guys can all pull to tension, then one guy can manage the load while the others run the tag lines. The hobbs device seems much less likely to override the line, its just a bit simpler.
As an aside, if you do ever use fiddle blocks dont run them vertically as in the video. Run the lowering line through a pulley at the base of the tree and redirect it to another tree/vehicle whatever. That way you can walk the fiddle block attachment point out as far as you need, and you can get a few guys pulling on the linhie. Have your porty rigged off the second tree too, so when you've lifted enough, just wrap and then release the fiddle block. Rinse and repeat for infinite lift. Beats the hell out of using a jamison pole to shuffle a prussik 2 feet vertically at a time as shown in the vid.
Shaun
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The Hobbs is just bullet proof plain and simple. I have seen Beraneks video of the Hobbs and GRCS drop testing and OMG what a tank. The piece they were dropping was the size of a school bus as well as a Volvo station wagon (really a Volvo Station wagon) and the Hobbs took the hit.
Just a little tip my buddy made a large socket to fit over the Hobbs and attaches a 3/4" drive ratchet to speed up the take up and lifting.
mattfr12
The Bulldog
Ya we have ventured into modifying one. we have a stihl gas powered drill for cable work in trees. and a local welder made a bracket that attaches to it so we can use the gas drill to spin the hobbs. he used a heavy duty 1/2 drive off a mason bit and it works well.
mattfr12
The Bulldog
The hobbs actually lifts pretty well. once you get into the lifting aspect of tree work it become much less violent. the forces applied are not any where near the same. its much more like a well orchestrated symphony than a death metal concert.
most of my rigging is done from adjacent trees. on most medium sized pines i just used the hobbs to crank them up and then pull the bottom out with a skid steer.
