powerstroke or cummins

[046]

yup agree... 04.5 is the best model and 03 and 04 have been known to drop valves. but according to a recent poll on DTR... 03 & 04 came out on top as the best CR cummins.

for the 12v... it's neck to neck between 97 and 98 12v for honors of best year for cummins 12v.

bottom line.... no diesel will be perfect... it's more of what gives the least amount of grief and of course easiest to obtain performance.

CR have the advantage of being able to daily drive a 600hp+ machine. vs a 600hp 12... you cannot turn off the HP, so would be very difficult to daily drive.

but 12v have the advantage of being able to bomb up to 400+ HP for very little $$$$.

I should also clarify... dodge stock torque converters slip a good amount, until lockup.
mine typically will drop 800 rpm when lockup occurs. in town stop and go is where mileage losses are worst. on the highway... after lockup... autos may be a crack better on mileage.

before I throw $4k at my auto... I'll find a donor truck and swap out tranny to 5sp.
but it sure is hard to find 4x4 5sp donor trucks! good point about stock TC being stall being set for V-10. flat didn't know that.

not planning on building up my tranny, but do plan on installing a Triple disc TC when stock TC finally dies. but surprisingly after pulling 20k+ lbs... stock TC is hanging in there.

I'll argue the 03-04 are the best,they are known for dropping valves,and valve seat failure.I have heard of a many failures,and then seen one myself when I built a DTT trans for a friends 03 3500,and it dropped a valve a yr later,destroyed the engine, i think it was #3 cylinder,it took Chrysler 13 days to even approve it for warranty,they fought it because he had an exhaust brake,and another 3 weeks to do the job.2 months later the replacement engines freeze out plug fell out at 60 mph on the interstate and overheated the new engine w 0nly 1500 miles on it.
The 04.5 325hp has a much better head,with better valves and seats.Although it doesnt get the fuel mileage of the early 04 and 03's.
There's nothing wrong with the 98.5-02's at this point,when they were new,Vp44 failures,and some #53 blocks,but all the bad vp44s have failed already,and the bad blocks have cracked,and been dealth with.My 2000 has never let me down,original Vp44 w 140+K on it,and 75K of that at 500+RWHP.I made 663rwhp in june of 03 on spray,and 603hp to the ground back in June of 04 with diesel only,at thunder in Muncie.Back then that was a lot of power.I built transmissions for many of my friends most of these trucks are 98.5-02s,they are good trucks,and a great used truck value now.biggest downside IMO is the fact that the quad cab is small,not much room in the truck.My 96 club cabs interior had a lot more room in it than my 2000 quad cab.
As for stock Dodge TC slipping all the time,that isnt true at all.starting in 94,they all have lock up TCs,and they lock above 30mph with OD off,or 45 mp with OD on.Once they lock,they are locked solid,and combined with the autos steeper .69 OD ratio,they will match a 6 speed trucks highway MPG because the engine is revving 150rpm lower than a manual trans truck at the same speed.This offsets the transmissions front pump,and ATF fluid friction which robs a few hp to run. In the city,and hills,the manual will get better mpg everytime,unless you get a built trans with a good convertor,my DTT torque convertor stalls about 600 rpm lower than stock,and it doesnt slip,it just pulls when you mash it,the stock torque convertor is built for the V10 gasser,thats why it feels like its slipping,its stall speed is way to high for a Cummins.A good torque convertor totally changes the way an auto drives,if anyoen wants i can post a link to a video of my truck pushing a 10ft blade full of wet snow,just off idle,with a DTT modded automatic I built.The amount of snow the properly set up Dodge Cummins will push is amazing.Throwing 4000 at a Dodge auto is well worth it if you plan it use the truck and the stock trans is worn out or in need of rebuilding.

 

[trialanderror]

http://www.fordcummins.com


you do that and post some pics. badass bragging rights

 

[HD-tech-NH]

2004 could have one of 3 different cummins in it.yes its a 5.9.Depending on when it was built if it was built in 03,it will have 250hp or 305hp.Either of these engines are really good on fuel.04's built on or after 1/1/04 will have 325hp/600 ft lbs torque.They are more powerful,but not quite as good on fuel. Either way,id look good at the front end on 4x4s,u joints,wheel bearings,and ball joint wear is high on them.Also look good at thefront of the engine for fuel leaks,some 03-07s had leaky injection pumps ,could be costly.Also look for indications that its been modified,guages,exhaust,intake,etc.If so,and the owner doesnt tell you upfront,Id stay away from it unless its very clean.Modded cummins are everywhere,most get beat pretty bad.Id preffer a bone stock truck.

great advise thanks!

 

[HD-tech-NH]

I'll argue the 03-04 are the best,they are known for dropping valves,and valve seat failure.I have heard of a many failures,and then seen one myself when I built a DTT trans for a friends 03 3500,and it dropped a valve a yr later,destroyed the engine, i think it was #3 cylinder,it took Chrysler 13 days to even approve it for warranty,they fought it because he had an exhaust brake,and another 3 weeks to do the job.2 months later the replacement engines freeze out plug fell out at 60 mph on the interstate and overheated the new engine w 0nly 1500 miles on it.
The 04.5 325hp has a much better head,with better valves and seats.Although it doesnt get the fuel mileage of the early 04 and 03's.
There's nothing wrong with the 98.5-02's at this point,when they were new,Vp44 failures,and some #53 blocks,but all the bad vp44s have failed already,and the bad blocks have cracked,and been dealth with.My 2000 has never let me down,original Vp44 w 140+K on it,and 75K of that at 500+RWHP.I made 663rwhp in june of 03 on spray,and 603hp to the ground back in June of 04 with diesel only,at thunder in Muncie.Back then that was a lot of power.I built transmissions for many of my friends most of these trucks are 98.5-02s,they are good trucks,and a great used truck value now.biggest downside IMO is the fact that the quad cab is small,not much room in the truck.My 96 club cabs interior had a lot more room in it than my 2000 quad cab.
As for stock Dodge TC slipping all the time,that isnt true at all.starting in 94,they all have lock up TCs,and they lock above 30mph with OD off,or 45 mp with OD on.Once they lock,they are locked solid,and combined with the autos steeper .69 OD ratio,they will match a 6 speed trucks highway MPG because the engine is revving 150rpm lower than a manual trans truck at the same speed.This offsets the transmissions front pump,and ATF fluid friction which robs a few hp to run. In the city,and hills,the manual will get better mpg everytime,unless you get a built trans with a good convertor,my DTT torque convertor stalls about 600 rpm lower than stock,and it doesnt slip,it just pulls when you mash it,the stock torque convertor is built for the V10 gasser,thats why it feels like its slipping,its stall speed is way to high for a Cummins.A good torque convertor totally changes the way an auto drives,if anyoen wants i can post a link to a video of my truck pushing a 10ft blade full of wet snow,just off idle,with a DTT modded automatic I built.The amount of snow the properly set up Dodge Cummins will push is amazing.Throwing 4000 at a Dodge auto is well worth it if you plan it use the truck and the stock trans is worn out or in need of rebuilding.

Thanks for sharing all that knowledge. As a fellow mechanic I know how much time and work it takes to learn this much. Most are reluctant to share thier know how and what with others. Thanks again. How do I tell which gears are in the axles. Is there a VIN code? How much difference will it make in highway fuel mileage? A couple of people have suggested fixing my G30. It was never my daily driver. I bought it 2 years ago for 400 and have nursed it this far. After replacing most of the metal from molding down. It has a good big block in it but the 4L80E has finally bit the dust. Frankly it is just not worth fixing. Also in retrospect I have decided to go from 2 vehicles to just the one that will do all I ask of it. My other ride is a turbo subaru that I love. But it needs to go. Really looking forward to looking at this truck on Monday!

 

[redprospector]

Gear vendors are nice,but the fuel payback is usually 150000 miles+.In that time the GV unit will fail if you tow heavy,On top of that they cannot be used with an exhaust brake,which is way more valuable than a GV.Anyone who tows should have an exhaust brake on there manual cummins.I had one on my auto for 2 yrs,I loved it,I put \ one on my dads auto as well.

I agree, anyone who pulls a load should have an exhaust brake. You can use an exhaust brake with a gear vendor, but you have to be in direct to use it (This is according to the guy at gear vendor that I talked with). I may not be one to listen to though, since I broke the input shaft on mine twice in less than 18 months. I'm gonna try the US Gear next time.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

Hey Tim(OP),

Have you thought about converting your 1 ton with a Cummins? There are guys that have put a Cummins in their unit. You could put a 4BT or 6BT in. The 4BT is from the cube vans with either a Ford or GM manual trans behind them. Oh the 4Bt is a 4 cylinder. 6Bt is the 6 cylinder and more known as the 5.9 cylinder.

I remembered a video I have seen on youtube with a Chev truck with a Fuller 10 speed behind it.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2CG0Yx3cmsc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2CG0Yx3cmsc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Just trying to give you some more options.

Don't mean to be a pest, but I am a gearhead and love messing with peoples minds with things out of the ordinary.

In 1980 a friend and me put a V-6 Cummins from a wrecked loader into a Ford Centurion (van cab/pickup bed) 1 ton. Coupled it with a 5 speed od out of a 1968 2 ton Chevy. At the time the 6.9 was the best Ford had to offer, 6.2 for Chevy , and I don't think Dodge offered any diesels at the time.
I was still a little envious because my friend had put a Caterpillar in his 1 ton Chevy.

Andy

 

[chainsawaddict]

over/under

7 pages

come on guys... the unders are winning.

 

[jwfirebird]

come on guys... the unders are winning.

i got over

You all see that chevy commercial where he says "you left your man step down" opcorn:

 

[KFC]

Both of my trucks were auto trans, I have not had any problems with the tranny but I do not tow much. If you plan to tow a heavy trailer go with the manual tranny. My 03 stock get's 20 city and 22-24 mpg on the hgwy, the trick is to keep your foot out of the turbo. When you hear the turbo humming you are sucking down the fuel. I get ribbed for driving like a old lady, but the mpg's are what counts.
Keep in mind Cummins makes a HO diesel that has more HP, but it sucks down the fuel also. The engine vin # will have a HO (high output) in it which indicates the larger engine. If you do not care about fuel consumption get the HO Cummins and drive it like you stole it.

 

[HD-tech-NH]

Big dissapointment, looked at the first truck and loved it! Drove like it was brand new. But when it came time to talk numbers they offered several thousand less than what my car is worth! So the hunt down continues. I'll update with more info. Hopefully this one will get to the seven pages

 

[John D]

Big dissapointment, looked at the first truck and loved it! Drove like it was brand new. But when it came time to talk numbers they offered several thousand less than what my car is worth! So the hunt down continues. I'll update with more info. Hopefully this one will get to the seven pages

Good luck trading anything in today. trade ins usually throw a great buy off the tracks.I usually treat buying and selling as separate issues. To get the best buying deal,you seldom can trade in at fair value.Your going to pay at least on one end.

 

[HD-tech-NH]

I am willing to pay , just not that much. We'll see what this weekend brings..

 

[streeter]

I am willing to pay , just not that much. We'll see what this weekend brings..

Right now you are the king......within reason you can get great deals.

Just to let you and others know, undercoating/rust proofing with interior protection only cost the dealership less then $100!

 

[kd460]

Be patient, the deals are out there, just stay cool. You can get some really good deals right now (I recently bought a new car). Remember, if your buying from a dealer, these guys are good. They make deals for a living, they know all the angles.

If you keep your money in your pocket till you get to a number you want, then you will win. You need to be willing to walk from a deal. Just make sure they have a way to get in touch with you even after you walk. Some will call you back, some will not.

The truck I own now I bought used. I really wanted this truck, but, I looked at it, test drove it, and then said "I'll let you know". I never called him back (a private seller) for about 5 days. I was getting ready to call him back and offer him $1000 less than asking price, when he called me and said he would sell the truck for $2000 less than original price. I was all set to jump on that when for giggles I countered with $2500 less. He jumped on that! I probably could have gone lower.

Just play it cool, keep looking, have option A, B, and C, ready at all times. Don't show any emotion, don't present yourself as "wanting a certian vehicle" even if you do.

If buying new, dealers don't like cash deals. They make more money if you finance through them. So cash deals don't have the "pull" that some people feel they do.

Now buying used is a different deal. If you have (for example), cold hard cash in your pocket, ready to go, and you want to pay less for a vehicle than asking, whip it out when you make the offer, let them see it. Let them realize that in 30 seconds their car can be "sold" "gone", or whatever. They want that money!

Good luck and happy hunting. KD

 

[EzTrbo]

I'm gathering the same vibe I get EVERYWHERE you go as far as which truck is best. This guy drives dodges cause his last one was a ford and craped out, this one drives a chevy cause his ford died, this one drives a ford cause his chevy died, etc. Around my area SW wisconsin I will easily say that the Dodge 2500 and one ton dullys totally dominate the diesel truck market. It helps when you have a handful of very good dodge dealers in the area. I myself am a die hard GM guy but of all the trucks we have own in business over the years the Dodge we have has been the best, and have worked the snot out of it. My 2500HD chevy only has 110K on it and that has not been worked real hard but OMG has it been around the block(thank god it can't talk.) Everyone has their goods and bads with all vehicles and we used to say if they were not any good they wouldn't be in business but with the ecconomy its hard to say what is going to happen with any of them.

Trbo

 

[HD-tech-NH]

Man is this turning into a pain.# People are asking crazy money for these things here.# My hunt is starting to look hopeless.# As of now I dont even have a truck in mind to look at!# I have been searching the entire northeast.# I wish I had the money to buy new.# Does anyone in the new england area have a dealer they would recomend?#

 

[John D]

Man is this turning into a pain.# People are asking crazy money for these things here.# My hunt is starting to look hopeless.# As of now I dont even have a truck in mind to look at!# I have been searching the entire northeast.# I wish I had the money to buy new.# Does anyone in the new england area have a dealer they would recomend?#

Whats your budget?What are you hoping to get for that $$.What configuration do you preffer or need? Obviously a reg cab is cheaper,but I needed a quad cab myself,soI went that way.

 

[Dok]

Don't fret, it took me six months before I found the truck I wanted.
Dok

 

[skid row]

Man is this turning into a pain.# People are asking crazy money for these things here.# My hunt is starting to look hopeless.# As of now I dont even have a truck in mind to look at!# I have been searching the entire northeast.# I wish I had the money to buy new.# Does anyone in the new england area have a dealer they would recomend?#

I ended up taking a train ride out of state to go pick up the diesel pickup I found.

 

[HD-tech-NH]

Whats your budget?What are you hoping to get for that $$.What configuration do you preffer or need? Obviously a reg cab is cheaper,but I needed a quad cab myself,soI went that way.

Budget is 19000 but I am a little upside down in my car. So that puts the price of the truck around 15000 . I need 4x4 and extended cab. prefer a stick and dont care about power options except cruise.