Procut sawmill

[carvinmark]

Although the Procut looks superior to the Alaskan set-up, he (the Procut designer) acts like the bandmill is susceptible to dulling from junk in the log, but the chainsaw is not!
QUOTE]


If you notice, on his production page, he is only cutting cants...not logs...so he is not running into any grit or rocks, but his description of the bandmill's faults has them cutting logs, not cants.

Some people will swallow anything!

I cut logs Only-I DON'T SWALLOW ANYTHING!!!

 

[carvinmark]

BTW, carvinmark, that is a neat set-up. I don't believe I've ever seen anything quite like it.

When I literally triped upon it I was amazed,It is a great mill

 

[coveredinsap]

what is you time worth?

I found that the majority of my time was not spent in milling...milling was the smallest part of it. The majority of time was spent doing the other things required to stage the logs for the cut and deal with the lumber after the cut....not the cut itself. Servicing and cleaning the equipment during and after the milling was also a little time consuming....but I imagine that that is a constant no matter what style mill is used.

The most absolute time-consuming item was getting the logs correctly positioned and adjusted for slabbing, and the readjustments that were necessary as slabbing commenced. That also appears to be a constant with all types of mills.

The fact is, I thorougly enjoyed the chainsaw cutting aspect of it. That was the real fun.

 

[carvinmark]

Do a search here on "veggie oil" or "canola" and you'll find quite a lot of discussion. There are quite a few folks here that have gone to veggie oil only, been doing it for years, and won't go back.

I plan on switching myself.

I carve,so oil is a problem,we have switched to cooking oil also

 

[carvinmark]

Which seems like a slam dunk decision when looking at those numbers but it ignores the big question, "what is you time worth?" My time is valuable and a bandmill's production is vastly superior to any csm set-up out there.

That $1 per BF seems pretty arbitrary and overinflated. A bandmill cuts more BF per sharpening, the sharpenings cost roughly the same, new blades are cheaper than a loop of ripping chain and last as long. Fuel consumption per Bf is far superior on a Bandmill.

If you are milling as hobby or in small quantities, csm's are great and one of the reasons I used one. When the milling became a business offshoot the bandmill was the only practical and money making solution.

Bandmills are faster,two - three times faster, but what do you get?

 

[rb_in_va]

I found that the majority of my time was not spent in milling...milling was the smallest part of it. The majority of time was spent doing the other things required to stage the logs for the cut and deal with the lumber after the cut....not the cut itself. Servicing and cleaning the equipment during and after the milling was also a little time consuming....but I imagine that that is a constant no matter what style mill is used.

The most absolute time-consuming item was getting the logs correctly positioned and adjusted for slabbing, and the readjustments that were necessary as slabbing commenced. That also appears to be a constant with all types of mills.

The fact is, I thorougly enjoyed the chainsaw cutting aspect of it. That was the real fun.

Sap,
How many logs have you milled with your set-up? Not busting on you, just asking. I found that after a few logs the fun had worn off, plus I had nowhere to store the wood.

 

[carvinmark]

And my bandmill uses water for lubrication as opposed to bar oil at $7 a gallon. Makes that $12.40 MBF look even less believable unless he's milling timbers as opposed to 4/4.

You pay 7.00 per gallon?

 

[WRW]

Thanks for the info,BELIVE IT OR NOT, I don't want to remove anything the chain needs, just want to add to it! I may try the diesel.

You may have solved the problem with the aux. oiler alone.

Sorry about the thread degenerating into a missing patch. :sword:

 

[carvinmark]

Thanks, I'll do that. The only problem as I see it would be the tendency for the oil to go rancid over time....but maybe that has been addressed or is not an issue with something like olive oil. In either case, I'll take a look....thanks again. (Hey, speaking of canola...now that they've genetically engineered it to be 'Roundup ready', maybe they can genetically engineer it to stick to a chainsaw bar better )


In other words, what you're saying is that the advertizing claims regarding Lumbermate 2000 are completely believeable, but they're not for this unit? That's somewhat laughable. If anything, this guy has backed up his claims with actual figures, which is a lot more than I can say for most manufacturer's products.

I have yet to see anyone dispute his cost per board ft price, or the expense and problems with keeping a bandsaw sharp and cutting. As for the clogging aspect of a bandsaw....that is totally believable by me, having just been literally 'covered in sap' milling this cedar tree. It wasn't even an issue with the chainsaw, other than the sap getting all over everything... and it never affected the chainsaw's cutting ability. Neither was it ever an issue cutting thru the sappy cedar bark.
I can hardly believethat it wouldn't, however, be an issue with a bandsaw. Particularly in an instance like this where the sap ran like honey.


That isn't the case according to the Procut site. He claims that bandsaw owners are frequently disappointed in their expensive purchase, and sell them to go back to chainsaw mills such as his. In fact, he claims that all but the most expensive bandsaw mills with the largest engines and thickest bandsaw blades cut wavy lumber that has to be run thru a planer before it's useful. That's a far cry from what you're claiming about them, although in your defense you did state that the bandsaw blade 'wanders' sometimes when it hits a knot, something that the Procut site also states...correctly it would appear.

No, I'm thinking that one of these Procut-style guide racks, set up with both a chainsaw mill powerhead and a chainsaw-powered bandsaw mill ...easily switchable depending on need, would be the ideal rig. ...And at pennies to the dollar compared to the other available options, including the Lumbermate 2000.

Hay guys, lets be fair,I spend a lot of time setting my mill to cut correctly,IT AIN'T EASY to get it right,but when it is,it's awsum,when it ain't,it's terrible.

 

[carvinmark]

Amen!

My chainsaw mill is for the logs I can't fit onto the hydraulic timberking I have access to. I enjoy milling with the chainsaw, but no matter how you look at it, you can't beat the producton and ease of a bandmill.

The waves in the boards can be prevented with proper setup AND a well maintained blade. But I've never seen a wave that a planer couldn't take out (well almost).

Each setup has it's place and none can replace the other.

I like them all!:greenchainsaw:

He is correct,each has it's place,I just can't afford a bandmill.

 

[carvinmark]

Sap,
How many logs have you milled with your set-up? Not busting on you, just asking. I found that after a few logs the fun had worn off, plus I had nowhere to store the wood.

I know from first hand experience about having too much wood to store,just build more shelter!!!

 

[carvinmark]

You may have solved the problem with the aux. oiler alone.

Sorry about the thread degenerating into a missing patch. :sword:

Thats coll Bill, hope it works, I'll let everyone know soon

 

[rb_in_va]

I know from first hand experience about having too much wood to store,just build more shelter!!!

I had a condo at the time! Barely had room for the saw and mill.

 

[carvinmark]

I had a condo at the time! Barely had room for the saw and mill.

I Live in the country,lots a room

 

[coveredinsap]

Hmmmm, that's odd. If I'm reading this right, this is saying that chainsaw bar oil is a mineral oil based product? What's so bad about that? Mineral oil is what you use to seal a kitchen chopping block or cutting board. You can take a swig of it...in fact it is a laxative...and the worse that will happen is that you'll have loose bowels.

If you're constipated on the job, you've got the laxative right there in your chainsaw. How handy is that?

http://www.regional.org.au/au/gcirc/5/173.htm

 

[Jim Shockey]

I built the procut 2 or 3 years ago and i really like it. I have it set up whith winches to load and to turn the logs and to pull it thru the log. I had a small sthl when I started and then whent to a sthl 51, 066 and 084.I cut all hard woods that I use myself.Cutting white oak cants 30 inchs square and 11 foot long I can only make about three cuts before my chain is ready for the grinder. I get very good and even lumber from this mill but my cost to mill a board foot is way higher then the figures stated before. When I built it I went with the best of everything and put all the extras on it that I could think of and, not counting the saw heads, I have about $1800.00 in it. A band mill would be five times faster, but I'm going to stay with this one because I'm satfied with it and I do not want to start over now with somthing new.

 

[carvinmark]

Hi Jim, glad to know that i'm not the only one with one of these. I' happy with mine to. Do you use an oiler on the other end? Hardwood must be tough,the guy I got mine from said he cut a lot of hardwood with it. I can cut about three hours before I need to resharpen,this is in pine,cedar I can go about twice as long.

 

[Newfie]

Sap, we've all agreed that the chainsaw mill has its niche. Your argument is that is far superior and economical to a bandmill in all scenarios. It's cool that you enjoyed milling up a handful of cedar logs. Try it out on a 1000 bf of 4/4 oak and then get back to us. If I took my time ion the bandmill, it would be done in a day and a half,stacked and stickered. I don't run a mill with all of the hydraulic bells and whistles either.

I cut a lot of lumber, I needed a bandmill, you are happy w/ your set-up.

Lawnmowers are inexpensive tools to mow my lawn, but I wouldn't say it was a better tool to mow a field just because the initial investment was so much less.

 

[coveredinsap]

If you have $1800 + $200 in consumables (gas, oil, etc) into it so far, then your direct cost per bd ft would be $2000 divided by the total bd ft produced. If you've produced 10,000 bd ft so far then your cost per bd ft would be $0.20 (twenty cents). $0.20 x 1000 bd ft = $200 per 1000 bd ft. But that's the direct cost...which is offset by the value of the lumber you produce. And the more you mill the more your costs go down. (Naturally, hardwoods would have a higher cost per bd ft.)
$0.20 a bd ft is looking pretty cheap when you consider that you can't even get a 2x4 or little piece of trim (such as baseboard) for $0.20 a lineal ft...let alone bd ft.

What's your labor worth? Well, if I've got a barn to build, no matter how I slice it I'm coming out a lot better if I mill as much of the lumber as possible myself and build it myself, than if I pay for the lumber and have a contractor build it for me. My lumber is basically at way below wholesale prices (as opposed to a retail price + contractor markup), and my own labor is at a straightforward reasonable rate as opposed to paying inflated contractor rates to cover the built-in profit and assorted other fees that a contractor collects in his hourly rate.

Lawnmowers are inexpensive tools to mow my lawn, but I wouldn't say it was a better tool to mow a field just because the initial investment was so much less.

By the same tolken, neither would a huge tractor that cuts a 10' swath be very cost effective, unless you're cutting acre after acre after acre of lawn on a daily basis, like state highway crews do.

 

[Newfie]

The real killer that is missing from your equation is opportunity cost.

What else could you be doing or how much could you be earning with those multitude of hours tied up in completing a large project with the wrong tool?

Add in the opportunity cost and see where your cost per bf goes.

Efficiency in the right hands = $$$$