Procut sawmill

[coveredinsap]

"Opportunity cost"? Did you just make that one up? Because it doesn't matter how much I'm earning, if I'm paying it all back out plus some for a contractor to do the work that I could be doing, then I might as well be doing it myself.

Yeah, if you're earning a ton of money then maybe It'd be best for you to hire a contractor. By the same tolken, if you had a ton of money and wanted a remote cabin in Alaska, you could just hire a huge helicopter and fly one in on pallets rather than pack in an Alaskan mill and build one yourself.

Different strokes for different folks. The fact is, even if I had the ton of money I'd do the cabin myself....."opportunity cost" be damned.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I can hardly believethat it wouldn't, however, be an issue with a bandsaw. Particularly in an instance like this where the sap ran like honey.

All it takes is a slash of pine sol, or liguid dish soap per 5 gallons of water, and there's NOTHING sticking to my bands! Nothing!

In other words, what you're saying is that the advertizing claims regarding Lumbermate 2000 are completely believeable,

Not only believable, but i'd be happy to let anyone that wants, to come by and see for themselves. It does everything Norwood says it does, and i'd be happy to give "anyone" a demo so they can see it for themselves. I'd be happy to make them a cut so thin, you can hold it up, and the light will come through it! Can you do that with your csm??

in your defense you did state that the bandsaw blade 'wanders' sometimes when it hits a knot,

It may help you "IF" you would actually read what i said, and not what you want to hear. Go read it again. I stated a few things that would MAKE IT HAPPEN, i never said it does happen all the time. Point being, it's OPERATOR ERROR when it does happen....



Tell me genius, how long would it take you to saw out 200 stickers like in the pict.? Could you even do it on your csm??? You "are" smart enough to use stickers in your lumber piles aren't you?? Don't tell me you would have to use a tablesaw or some other tool to do what a band mill does "quickly" and "easily"...

Well, if I've got a barn to build, no matter how I slice it I'm coming out a lot better if I mill as much of the lumber as possible myself and build it myself

Agreed! And you'd get done 10 times FASTER with a band mill! In fact, you'd have time to mill even more lumber, so you could sell it and pay for that big tractor you "think" you need...

By the same tolken, if you had a ton of money and wanted a remote cabin in Alaska, you could just hire a huge helicopter and fly one in on pallets rather than pack in an Alaskan mill and build one yourself.

Don't tell you your also an authority on Alaskan bush???? Want to compare notes on that subject too???? I lived there for 25 years.. So, i'm willing to hear what you "think" you know on that subject too.

Rob

 

[coveredinsap]

Tell me genius, how long would it take you to saw out 200 stickers like in the pict.? Could you even do it on your csm??? You "are" smart enough to use stickers in your lumber piles aren't you?? Don't tell me you would have to use a tablesaw or some other tool to do what a band mill does "quickly" and "easily"...

Talk about the right tool for the job (or in your instance the wrong one)....
It's absolutely ludicrous to think that anyone could rip those stickers faster on a gas powered bandsaw mill than they could be done on a decent electric table saw.....in likely less than half the time. Not to mention the huge waste of energy running such a big saw for such minimal needs as 1.5"x1.5"x6' stickers. Next you'll be telling me you made them out of hardwood instead of just some waste softwood.

And that's the difference between a good carpenter and a 'sawyer'.

FYI, no stickers between the slabs of cedar. I need them to stay wet until they're ripped into grape stakes and immediately attached to the fence. They dry in place.

Hey, by the way, if those stickers are wet you better put something heavy on them to keep them from turning into pretzels

 

[Finnbear]

sap,
What is ludicrous is to spout opinions without the experience to back them up. It is obvious that you've never been around a bandmill working or didn't pay very close attention if you have. You cut stickers very efficiently on a bandmill by cutting a stack (a dozen or so) of 4/4 boards all the same width and then turning the whole stack on edge and then sawing it at 4/4. Each pass takes off a dozen or so stickers just as slick as you please and WAY faster than I can ever cut 'em on the Unisaw. There are all sorts of opinions on what wood makes the best stickers but to me the best is what I happen to have a surplus of - may be hardwood or softwood depending on what is being cut at the time. I have a bunch of short (5ft) Poplar logs that are destined to become stickers because I have a boatload of Poplar right now and I need a boatload of stickers to replace the ones I will use for the two dozen or so Oak, Ash, and Cherry logs piled up out front. You'll learn some of these tricks if you saw logs long enough. A great way to learn a lot about sawing is to scrounge up a dozen or so logs and hire a good sawyer with a bandmill to cut them up for you. Set it up with you as the sawyer's helper for the day and then pay close attention all day and ask lots of questions. Most sawyers for hire will work with you like this and you can learn a lot in a short amount of time if you pay attention.
Finnbear

Talk about the right tool for the job (or in your instance the wrong one)....
It's absolutely ludicrous to think that anyone could rip those stickers faster on a gas powered bandsaw mill than they could be done on a decent electric table saw.....in likely less than half the time. Not to mention the huge waste of energy running such a big saw for such minimal needs as 1.5"x1.5"x6' stickers. Next you'll be telling me you made them out of hardwood instead of just some waste softwood.

And that's the difference between a good carpenter and a 'sawyer'.

FYI, no stickers between the slabs of cedar. I need them to stay wet until they're ripped into grape stakes and immediately attached to the fence. They dry in place.

Hey, by the way, if those stickers are wet you better put something heavy on them to keep them from turning into pretzels

 

[clearance]

I helped run an Alakan mill for about an hour with a 066. I have worked a lot of construction and run many saws, I have read many milling threads here and learned a lot for when I do it in the future. Thanks. Covered in Sap stared milling with a 390 Stilh and now uses a Husky 455, nuff said.

 

[Newfie]

I wish that he were a troll but it's obvious he's just an arrogant fool.

He knows very little about chainsaw mills, nothing about bandmills and almost as much about economics.


So get back to us and let us know how the gooey twisted mess of chipper food works out for a fence because you didn't stack and sticker, because slabs will twist,warp and cup especially if live-sawn like you did. Tell us what colors the mold is that is it grew because it sat in a wet heap.

Come back and tell us how much the new piston for 455 will be after you smoke it. Lots of stupid things in history have been done once, doesn't mean it really worked or was a good idea.

Come back and let us explain to you why your carpentry business went under because you were busy saving a few bucks on lumber and paying yourself a fair wage. To keep your cost analysis fair, if you use the chainsaw mill to mill the lumber for the barn, make sure to use a shovel for the footings and handmix the concrete for foundation or slab. No cheating. Be sure to complete apprenticeships in all those areas to insure real quality.

Or alternatively, stop talking out of your a$$ and join in the conversation with a friendly exchange of ideas and techniques. You would be amazed at how much info you can gain from people that actually have years of experience in the field. You could think of it as an apprenticeship.

 

[coveredinsap]

A great way to learn a lot about sawing is to scrounge up a dozen or so logs and hire a good sawyer with a bandmill to cut them up for you. Set it up with you as the sawyer's helper for the day and then pay close attention all day and ask lots of questions. Most sawyers for hire will work with you like this and you can learn a lot in a short amount of time if you pay attention.
Finnbear

Thanks but, from some of what I've seen here, I think I'll have to pass on that offer.

 

[Newfie]

Covered in Sap stared milling with a 390 Stilh and now uses a Husky 455, nuff said.

Almost forgot about that one. And it was all because the Stihl dealer was a putz.

I worked for a guy like this once. Every sentence began with,"My friend told me" or "I read on the internet". He figured he could GC his own house since there wasn't anything to it and the contractor was just padding his bill with silly stuff like profit. Oddly enough this guy had the worst time with subs. Everyone he hired just didn't have a clue as to what they were doing even though they all came with high recommendations. Can you imagine that string of bad luck?

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

He is correct,each has it's place,I just can't afford a bandmill.

I can't either. I'm just lucky to have access to a bada$$ bandmill that just sits most of the time. It's nice to have friends with money.

 

[Finnbear]

Thanks but, from some of what I've seen here, I think I'll have to pass on that offer.

That was not an offer. It was a suggestion. Read closer and pay attention. An unwillingness to educate yourself means you doom yourself to failure. The man who thinks he knows everything actually is fooling himself because he knows very little.

You know what you know.
You know what you don't know.
You don't know what you don't know.

 

[coveredinsap]

I wish that he were a troll but it's obvious he's just an arrogant fool.

He knows very little about chainsaw mills, nothing about bandmills and almost as much about economics.


So get back to us and let us know how the gooey twisted mess of chipper food works out for a fence because you didn't stack and sticker, because slabs will twist,warp and cup especially if live-sawn like you did. Tell us what colors the mold is that is it grew because it sat in a wet heap.

Come back and tell us how much the new piston for 455 will be after you smoke it. Lots of stupid things in history have been done once, doesn't mean it really worked or was a good idea.

Come back and let us explain to you why your carpentry business went under because you were busy saving a few bucks on lumber and paying yourself a fair wage. To keep your cost analysis fair, if you use the chainsaw mill to mill the lumber for the barn, make sure to use a shovel for the footings and hadmix the concrete for foundation or slab. No cheating. Be sure to complete apprenticeships in all those areas to insure real quality.

Or alternatively, stop talking out of your a$$ and join in the conversation with a friendly exchange of ideas and techniques. You would be amazed at how much info you can gain from people that actually have years of experience in the field. You could think of it as an apprenticeship.

Speaking of an arrogant fool, here's a prime example of what you get when you combine book, or 'read', knowledge with, uh, nothing.

I know that the chainsaw I used fell within the rated cc category for the small log mill that I used, as recommended by the company that made it, particularly considering the treee was a softwood....and cedar at that. I know that it was sufficient for the job at hand, and actually did better than I expected it would. I know that if and when I'm ready to mill bigger or harder stuff, I'll need both a bigger chainsaw and a larger Alaskan mill.

I know that although the cedar is stacked (with plenty of air space), if it's stickered and 'allowed to dry' as suggested it will likely twist and cup and split all to hell before I get to using it. Ditto if I try to rip it before I'm ready to nail it to the fence. I only need it to sit there for 30 days or so before it I'm ready to use it.....and it won't twist, cup or split unless it's stickered and allowed to dry before I'm ready to use it. Once it's spiked to the fence I don't care what it does. Not all lumber benefits by immediate stickering. Imagine that.

And mold? Who gives a flying f**k? It's a fence for christ's sake.

As for the barn footings, I'll likely be getting one of the small backhoe/tractors and digging them myself. I need one anyways. I suppose I should go take lessons first as opposed to just using the backhoe experience I've learned on the job over the years? Yeah, right.

Dude, while you may be able to gain knowledge on this forum, indeed....there is plenty here if you know what to look for, by no means is it all accurate....probably not even by half. You've got to know how to separate the wheat from the chaff, and "info ...from people that actually have years of experience in the field" is largely only a matter of opinion.

You know what you know.
You know what you don't know.
You don't know what you don't know.

Huh? Quotes from Rumsfeld? Yeah, he's showed us what he 'knows', eh? Not exactly someone to be taking notes from, IMHO.

 

[rb_in_va]

Don't tell you your also an authority on Alaskan bush???? Want to compare notes on that subject too???? I lived there for 25 years.. So, i'm willing to hear what you "think" you know on that subject too.

Rob,
I didn't see a section about the Alaskan bush on the Procut site, so Sap can't speak about it from his experience of reading it on the internet.

btw, Opprotunity Cost = What you gave up when you chose the route you took. For example, when Robert Frost took the road less traveled, his opportunity cost was the road more often traveled. Sort of like you Sap, you opted for the road less traveled with your milling.

 

[Newfie]

btw, Opprotunity Cost = What you gave up when you chose the route you took. For example, when Robert Frost took the road less traveled, his opportunity cost was the road more often traveled. Sort of like you Sap, you opted for the road less traveled with your milling.

watcha talkin' bout Willis? Remember, I just made that **** up!:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[coveredinsap]

I didn't see a section about the Alaskan bush on the Procut site, so Sap can't speak about it from his experience of reading it on the internet.

Here's the thing about the internet. I could call myself 'Sawyer Sap' as my user name here and say I've been milling trees all my life in the wilds of Alaska....but that doesn't mean it's true. Anyone can say anything here about what they have or haven't done, or the experience they may or may not have, or what they may or may not know. (And judging by some of what is posted around here, they do.) There is no way to verify anything people say here...this is the internet. So you've got to cull through the information presented, and decide for yourself what you want to believe is factual.

I've never been to Alaska. The furthest north I've ever been is Canada. But no matter...the point is, I'm not out to bs anyone here. If you want to take what I say as advice, then fine. If you don't, then fine. But don't attempt to piss down my neck and tell me it's raining, 'cause I'm not buying it. Someone else might though....they might believe you're all 'experts' here. I know better. Does that piss people off? Of course it does.
From what I've seen, many of the 'amateurs' on this forum actually know more than many of the purported 'experts' here...they just don't know, or haven't realized they're being bullsh***ed yet.

Sorry.....I digress. The topic is milling with the Procut Mill, which despite what the 'experts' claim, is a nice rig. I only wish they came preassembled, as my welding generally sucks

 

[Newfie]

Sorry.....I digress. The topic is milling with the Procut Mill, which despite what the 'experts' claim, is a nice rig. I only wish they came preassembled, as my welding generally sucks

Which is where the confusion arises. Nobody said the procut sucks, just that the sales pitch was full of sh!t. I'm suspect of any salesman who's first instinct is to tear down the competition rather than allow a product to compete on its own merits.

Most bandmillers started out as chainsaw millers for varieties of reasons and then moved on to a bandmill, no doubt for a variety fo different reasons. Each have their place. If I was milling large long beams, I'd get out the Alaskan in a heartbeat. Milling 10 MBF of 4/4 lumber, my woodmizer has me done and moving on to the next money maker so much faster.

I find it odd that you doubt the anecdotal evidence of guys that have experience in the operation of these mills, some for pleasure, some for profit (or both). You would much rather rely on the economic analysis of a guy whose sole aim is to sell you something. Seems like poor judgement in that regard.

I imagine most could really care less whether you think you are right or not. But don't come here and sort the chaff for us when by admission of your own experience, you don't know the wheat from the chaff.


Have you checked out the F0restry f0rum? It's full of amateurs and "pros" who would get a kick out of what you "know to be true".


Time to pack my backpack with my books so I can go to work and earn a living working with trees,logs and lumber.:bang:

 

[rb_in_va]

I only wish they came preassembled, as my welding generally sucks

Don't worry, I'm sure the Procut site will soon roll out a section on welding. Then you will be an expert on that!

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I don't want to jump in on the 'sap bashing but I comment anyways...

Talk about the right tool for the job (or in your instance the wrong one)....
It's absolutely ludicrous to think that anyone could rip those stickers faster on a gas powered bandsaw mill than they could be done on a decent electric table saw.....in likely less than half the time. Not to mention the huge waste of energy running such a big saw for such minimal needs as 1.5"x1.5"x6' stickers. Next you'll be telling me you made them out of hardwood instead of just some waste softwood.

And that's the difference between a good carpenter and a 'sawyer'.

FYI, no stickers between the slabs of cedar. I need them to stay wet until they're ripped into grape stakes and immediately attached to the fence. They dry in place.

Hey, by the way, if those stickers are wet you better put something heavy on them to keep them from turning into pretzels

As I said before, I'm a woodworker first and a "sawyer" second. Ripping stickers can be exponentially faster on a mill than a table saw. I try to save a large limb, low grade log, etc. of the same species solely for the purpose of making stickers. I've made over 1000 in less than an hour before. Even if you don't have an extra log you can quickly gang rip the cants into stickers. Using the same species minimizes the risk of sticker stain but it's not 100%, nothing is. I've even experienced sticker "bleaching" when using a light colored sticker on dark wood.

A word of caution about stacking without stickering. Now that the face of the boards have been exposed to air you may get unwanted mold. I don't fully understand your need for them to be wet but you my think about stickering your stack then covering it with poly. This should let the surface or the boards dry but retain the majority of the internal moisture.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Here's the thing about the internet. I could call myself 'Sawyer Sap' as my user name here and say I've been milling trees all my life in the wilds of Alaska....but that doesn't mean it's true. Anyone can say anything here about what they have or haven't done, or the experience they may or may not have, or what they may or may not know. (And judging by some of what is posted around here, they do.) There is no way to verify anything people say here...this is the internet. So you've got to cull through the information presented, and decide for yourself what you want to believe is factual.

So, what is it your saying????? Are you saying that i never lived in Alaska?? That i never build a cabin in the bush there???? I do believe i was there when you was still pi$$ing in your diaper... hahahahaaa

From all of the answers here, it's not hard to see that what i have said is what everyone else here that owns a band mill has "experienced". Only "you" with NO experience feels the way you do.. I guess everyone here is wrong but you... hahahaaaa If you would take a few minutes to think about it, maybe.... just maybe you could figure out on your own that "if" you had some actual experience on this whole subject, (instead of googleing for your answers) you just may think differently.

Some of your answers are so far out in left field, it's obvious you really don't know what your talking about... For instance, i have two unisaws and also a 16" Huss with power feed, and there's NO way a tablesaw is a better or faster way to make stickers than a bandsaw... "If" you actually had some experience, you'd know that too...

BTW, stickers "aren't" 1.5" x 1.5" x 6'

Rob

 

[rb_in_va]

Thanks but, from some of what I've seen here, I think I'll have to pass on that offer.

I think the above is the new winner in the "coveredinsap's dumbest statements" contest. But who's keeping track, right?

 

[Newfie]

I think the above is the new winner in the "coveredinsap's dumbest statements" contest. But who's keeping track, right?

I don't know what keeps him sticking around. He knows that he is right and that we are all BS'ers who don't jack about anything. Not much room for conversation and sharing.