Property Damage? Need advice

[SlickerThanMost]

Hi, I'm a newbie climber with 2year experience who started working for my father. Recently, we were removing a dead Ash tree for $980 in my client's front yard and I happened to fell the tree towards the driveway which ended up causing a damage to the asphalt. We finished up with the stump grinding but obviously they won't pay until the driveway is fixed. Don't want the insurance premium going up so trying to fix this problem without any claim.

The lady(owner) got very upset and called up her husband, a lawyer at a law firm. A snobby douche.

I told the husband that we will be able to fix it.

So I got some driveway sealer and compacted it down in the hole. Got paid $500 and left.

A day after, He tells me he's not satisfied with it and he removed all the cold asphalt from the damaged spot.

so then I called up a small paving company for a repair (cut out the damaged part in square and pour new asphalt for $175) they are supposed to come down next week for repair and I let him know.

Meanwhile he's got different estimates from larger companies with better reputation for redoing the whole driveway with new sealing (it's a semi detached house that share driveway with neighbour). $850. He tells me 'I don't think you can find a reputable company yourself'.

And now he's asking for part of the money I was paid which is $350

Anyone has experience like this?

This guy claims that this chain oil mark is LACERATION.

I don't know what to tell this guy.






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[squad143]

Pretty simple.

His driveway was fine before you showed up. Now it has a hole that you made. You have to satisfy your customer. If his demands are too big for your pocket, use your insurance.

 

[HuskStihl]

Hey *******. That's my driveway you ****ed up, and I'd like to see you call me a douche to my face!

 

[KenJax Tree]

Hey *******. That's my driveway you ****ed up, and I'd like to see you call me a douche to my face!

Will CAPS LOCK work?

 

[sac-climber]

One of those things that you wont ever repeat probably.

My advice, take a shower, shave, put on some nice clothes and set up a time to meet face to face and discuss the damage. Dealing with things like this over the phone is a no-no. Tell him you want to make it right and his satisfaction is more important than cost to you. As much as it hurts, it's not up to you to find the contractor for repairs. This is why we carry insurance.

Next time bring some tires along

 

[Pelorus]

I don't know what you can tell this guy either, but I doubt you will ever see another nickel in payment from him.
Thus is a game to him. He is a lawyer. He has lots more experience in screwing people than you.
The last custy that ripped me off was about 6 years ago.
In that situation (he was not home when I saw the work, or did the job) a Cambodian jungle of saplings surrounded a couple of poplars which were to get removed. A number of those saplings (wind seeded, bush property; rural, trees/saplings were on the side of the property) got schmucked. Inevitable. Couldn't even get to the poplars because of the impenetrable jungle. Chipped them, finished job, nice clean up, etc.
He left a testy message on our answering machine a day or two later when we were out (phoned from a pay phone, lol). Loud, obnoxious, profane.....supposedly cause those saplings were gonzo. Perhaps in hindsight I should have realized that for the princely sum of $900 he expected me to rent a crane or Heli to pluck the poplars from the ground. Anyway, I dropped off an invoice for around $500 with him at his workplace. He didn't say anything, and I said very little. I figured losing $400 was better than losing $900.
But it was not to be.
Cause I got a nasty letter from him in the mail about a week later. He threatened to take me to court over the destruction of several thousand dollars worth of small trees.
I thought: "Bring it on, you S.O.B."
But that was the end of it. I got screwed out of a full days work, and the money I paid my son for helping me that day.
The prick eventually got fired from his job, and I don't know what he is up to nowadays.
Weird thing was, he happened to be the manager of the local Habitat for Humanity ReStore at the time I did the job for him. Figured he was a good guy. Always seemed pretty friendly when we would chat back and forth at the store. Guess he also knew how to play the game of screwing contractors, and I wasn't the first one.

 

[SlickerThanMost]

Hey *******. That's my driveway you ****ed up, and I'd like to see you call me a douche to my face!

HAHA


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[imagineero]

You've always got to feel out clients for the level of property damage they're willing to accept, and price the job accordingly. I find most folks in average neighborhoods are ok with some lawn damage if they get a reasonable price on the tree work, and dont mind small shrubs around the target being damaged either. Always verify this when giving the price though. People with real nice lawns and manicured gardens generally are gonna be fussier, and I'll ask about that before giving them a price and specify what the result will be on the quote. It gives me a competitive advantage too - some guys might quote low but if I've educated them a little about lawn damage and protecting their nice hedge they're going to ask the other bidders on the job. That will set off alarm bells for those guys who are going to quote higher as a result and the quotes can be more favorably compared.

I've not yet found a client who is ok with concrete/asphalt damage except in cases where they were planning to demolish the site and start again. People don't like that stuff, and if you want to take the risk then you've got to pay the price if it goes wrong. Personally, I'd be expecting to pay for that damage, and honestly the guys expectation that it should be repaired to the condition it was in previously is not unreasonable if his property is in a generally good condition. I leave people's houses in a substatntially similar condition as how I found them. I'm not going to do a super cleanup in a ****** yard, or be super careful on a drive that's already cracked to hell and potholed. However if they've got a nice yard and clean drive it stands to reason I have to protect those surfaces unless I've come to an agreement about that before hand.

Stuff goes wrong form time to time. Last year we had a hose pop off the chipper and it spilled its guts all over this guys drive. There was no way to shut it off, it puked everything. We had a bag of kitty littler in the truck for spills but it didn't even begin to mop up the sea of hydraulic fluid. Went and bought heaps of kitty littler, rags, newspapers, degreaser, scrubbing brushes, whole crew spent the rest of the day cleaning the drive. We couldn't even finish the job. All on my dime. It was a mess! We got most of it but the drive was stained. Came back with a very expensive super high pressure petrol powered blaster and spent a whole day there again with another guy. Came up pretty good but you could still tell. Ended up paying a guy to come and re-seal it on top of that. In the end cost me more than double what I got for the job. It was the right thing to do.

 

[Toddppm]

Guys a slimeball lawyer, you're screwed. I'd send it to insurance and be done with it. He just wants to get as much out of this as possible, let it be on the insurance co's dime. (which will be yours eventually) and don't drop trees on driveways anymore

 

[jefflovstrom]

So what are you 'slicker than most' at?
Jeff

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

You've always got to feel out clients for the level of property damage they're willing to accept, and price the job accordingly. I find most folks in average neighborhoods are ok with some lawn damage if they get a reasonable price on the tree work, and dont mind small shrubs around the target being damaged either. Always verify this when giving the price though. People with real nice lawns and manicured gardens generally are gonna be fussier, and I'll ask about that before giving them a price and specify what the result will be on the quote. It gives me a competitive advantage too - some guys might quote low but if I've educated them a little about lawn damage and protecting their nice hedge they're going to ask the other bidders on the job. That will set off alarm bells for those guys who are going to quote higher as a result and the quotes can be more favorably compared.

I've not yet found a client who is ok with concrete/asphalt damage except in cases where they were planning to demolish the site and start again. People don't like that stuff, and if you want to take the risk then you've got to pay the price if it goes wrong. Personally, I'd be expecting to pay for that damage, and honestly the guys expectation that it should be repaired to the condition it was in previously is not unreasonable if his property is in a generally good condition. I leave people's houses in a substatntially similar condition as how I found them. I'm not going to do a super cleanup in a ****** yard, or be super careful on a drive that's already cracked to hell and potholed. However if they've got a nice yard and clean drive it stands to reason I have to protect those surfaces unless I've come to an agreement about that before hand.

Stuff goes wrong form time to time. Last year we had a hose pop off the chipper and it spilled its guts all over this guys drive. There was no way to shut it off, it puked everything. We had a bag of kitty littler in the truck for spills but it didn't even begin to mop up the sea of hydraulic fluid. Went and bought heaps of kitty littler, rags, newspapers, degreaser, scrubbing brushes, whole crew spent the rest of the day cleaning the drive. We couldn't even finish the job. All on my dime. It was a mess! We got most of it but the drive was stained. Came back with a very expensive super high pressure petrol powered blaster and spent a whole day there again with another guy. Came up pretty good but you could still tell. Ended up paying a guy to come and re-seal it on top of that. In the end cost me more than double what I got for the job. It was the right thing to do.

Yeah, "how much damage they are willing to except". They don't teach that in arbo school and what other business is that thinking a strategy?

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Oh so anyway ,yeah, fix the drive, there ya go.

 

[treeseer]

"so then I called up a small paving company for a repair (cut out the damaged part in square and pour new asphalt for $175) they are supposed to come down next week for repair and I let him know.
Meanwhile he's got different estimates from larger companies with better reputation for redoing the whole driveway with new sealing (it's a semi detached house that share driveway with neighbour)."

Not unreasonable that he would not be satisfied with a patch job.

"And now he's asking for part of the money I was paid which is $350."

How big a part? You screwed up; you're gonna pay; deal with it. Where's the rest of the $850 coming from? Not your dad I hope.

"Anyone has experience like this?"

yes many years ago i cracked a small corner of a big concrete driveway. Owner insisted on replacing the whole thing (to fix preexisting issues) and my ins co agreed. The claim did not raise my rates, nor did a second one ~20 years later. I'm guessing anything <$5-10K is peanuts to them.
Your dad should check with his agent on these options. Internet advice is often worth what it costs.

"This guy claims that this chain oil mark is LACERATION." Well it kinda looks that way. Why did you make those marks? Why didn't you clean them up? Sorry but ya gotta take responsibility for your actions.

 

[treeclimber101]

You ****ed up the driveway .... HE has the choice to have it fixed his way , plain and simple , next time stay off the driveway or tell them that's they need to assume the risk of driveway damage . Anything short of that .... Your wrong , thankfully in 13 years only 2 insurance claims and one I still argue to this day I had nothing to do with

 

[imagineero]

Yeah, "how much damage they are willing to except". They don't teach that in arbo school and what other business is that thinking a strategy?

Even the very best and most careful tree company is going to do 'damage'. Odds are you can't get a job done without leaving one speck of sawdust, one blade of grass bent etc. Call it damage, wear or whatever you like, but it's part of the job and it's a factor that ought to be discussed and agreed upon at the time of quoting. Some companies specialize in high end low impact work and go to all kinds of lengths to satisfy the client (with associated costs!). Mats, protection for pavers, painted surfaces, tarps, blowers and even vacs after the work is done. I just don't have the patience for that level of detail myself, so I tend to not quote that sort of work the few times it gets offered to me. We do a good medium to low upper end quality job which to me means no damage to structures, fences, pavers, drives, garden edging and similar semi permanent fixtures but generally means you are going to end up with some small amount of lawn damage, possibly small plant damage if close to tree and possibly some scrape marks in your drive if we have to drag over it.

I got burnt a couple times in past with marks to property so I'm super cautious quoting work near stone which just marks so easy. Sandstone and sandstone pavers mark very easy and are hard to clean just from brush getting dragged over them. Same story with dragging brush up alongside very narrow passages between house and fence, you can spend a bunch of time trying to cover both with ply and/or cardboard or you can just drag and pray but if you do you'll end up with some scrape/scratch marks. Some folks are real fussy about that. I've got a section on my quote sheet that prompts me to tick off those kinds of things to save me some grief.

 

[Zale]

Judging from your description of your clients, they probably picked up your attitude real quick while you tried to discuss this with them. You broke it , you bought it. Call your insurance company and move on. Whenever I have broken something, I will always repair it to the customers satisfaction and not get in a pissing match about it.

 

[SlickerThanMost]

Tru


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[gorman]

You screwed the pooch and messed up the driveway. You're getting off kinda easy compared to stuff that can happen to property. Septics systems, roofs, vintage cars (A tree guy around here has a broken 72 camarro he bought from a HO when he dropped a tree on it.). Live and learn, driveways are off limits always for damage. We sometimes lay out plywood just to pivot the front end on them. You're losing a grand at most and that's bad, but it could be waaaay worse.

 

[OLD OAK]

Was doing a pine tree removal about 5 ft off a house few years ago, tree was about 10 ft from the neighbors driveway so i had my customer ask her neighbor if we could use his driveway. Big F-up on my part. Long story short the neighbor call me and said we damaged his driveway ( asphalt was starting to come apart ) I knew we did not hurt it but because i used it i was screwed. Guy wanted $1200.00 for a complete redo so i called my insurance company who settled with him and i paid my $1000.00 deductible. I told my insurance that i did not hurt the driveway but it did not matter, i had used it. So in your case you know you did the damage just report it to your insurance and let them handle it. This is tree work it is going to happen, that why we pay so much $$ for insurance.

 

[pro94lt]

For me it's a no brainer. You asked and ultimately you have to decide what kind of business you want to operate. .. next did they find you on Craigslist?