Question for dealers?

[sedanman]

From a liability standpoint the dealer is advised to sell EVERYONE safety chain. If a guy brings in a few chains to have sharpened and wants a few new ones he gets what he brought in, bring in full chisel, get full chisel. Over the counter chain sales, unless the customer asks for better (faster) chain they get safety chain.

 

[Lakeside53]

On Stihl's planet, the move to RSC3 has pretty much removed the objections to "safety chain". Unfortunately it dulls faster than the old RM2 for typical homeowner cutting (on the ground, dirty wood etc). We still have a few rolls and sell RM2 accordingly.

 

[DOLMARatOs]

We retail a full line of OREGON products. All our DOLMAR saws under 64 cc come with "blue label" low kickback chain. We carry both the blue label and yallow label (PRO) chains. I sell the customer what they want. If Joe customer wants a spare chain for his saw...he gets one identical to the chain on the saw. If he/she wants semi-chisel or full chisel or something different than what is normally used on the particular saw then we have a little ****-chat about what they want their chain to do. Someone who knows exactly what kind of chain they want gets what they request. Otherwise we try to determine the best chain for the application and the operator. It comes down to understanding what the consumer wants or needs.

 

[ciscoguy01]

Omg

Odd, I just ran into this exact same thing with a local dealer a couple of weeks ago. Wouldn't sell me a non-safety chain because he didn't know whether or not I was a pro. Told him I've worked with saws since I was a kid-no deal. Told him my dad owns a logging company (with my last name) just two towns over-no deal. Happened to be wearing an Asplundh sweatshirt-no deal. Had a check stub from the tree company I work for in the same county in my wallet-no deal. Told him I have more saws in the back of my truck than he had on his showroom floor-no deal (and that just made him angry.) Needless to say, walked out without my chain and will never go back again.

I almost spit out my water when I read that part about more saws then he had on his wall, lmfao. What part of NY you in? I wanna know so I can know where I am NOT going to go, lol...

 

[Justsaws]

I think that I would be safe in saying that none of you have been told to sell non commercial users safety chain only. I have a theory as to why one of the dealers doing this is behaving in this manner. I was looking for conformation that suppliers are not getting overly protective and that other dealers have not been told to do the same from their suppliers. I also was asked to see if other dealers were doing the same. So far only one brand of saws but three different brands of chain. This seems to be monetarily motivated, I shall politely inquire when I can talk to the one dealers mechanic. Thanks for the replies.

 

[sedanman]

Stihl dealers are directed to sell only Stihl brand bars and chains for use on Stihl saws. Not just a money thing but a liability issue. Stihl certifies their saws for kickback compliance with certain bar/chain combinations, any deviation from what the saw is tested with makes the dealer the last station on the assembly line thus putting product liability on his head. Stihl preaches this doctrine at their schools. Stihl is self insured in the U.S. and is the most up-tight about liability (this is why they don't sell bow bars in this country anymore). If the dealer follows the rules Stihl will stand behind them if they are sued, if they don't follow the rules they are on their own.

 

[Lakeside53]

This seems to be monetarily motivated, I shall politely inquire when I can talk to the one dealers mechanic. Thanks for the replies.

It's not monetarily motivated... chains all cost about the same.... Yes, a Stihl dealer shouldn't fit a different chain (if, as Sedanman points out, they want the backing of Stihl in a liability action) than that supplied with the saw, but many do. You can ask the dealer if you can swap your newly installed unused chain for another. And if you get an RSC3 - why even worry? It's a decent chain and the first of a truck-load you'll buy over the life of the saw.

We often swap bar and chains at the time of sale. It's our choice to take the "risk", and we do with our experienced customers.

 

[Indiana John]

Well, just this past spring a buddy of mine (regular Joe) went into the local Stihl dealer to buy a couple of new saws for cutting firewood. The dealer told him he could get both saws with either anti-kickback or chisel chain, his choice. Naturally he bought both with the chisel chain along with spares for each saw. He didn't even have to ask for the chisel chain, the salesman offered to make the switch right there on the showroom floor. And no, they didn't ask if he was a professional or not (I was there).

 

[Justsaws]

How about a truck load of safety chain for pennies on the dollar?

How about credit exchange for moving slow selling regional stock?

Monetarily motivated seems to stir the pot. Sorry. But if what you have just posted is true than the above suggestions are probably closer to the reason as mixing and matching brands is taking place. I did not know that Stihl dealers selling Oregon chain get left to their own defenses. It would make sense. However, it makes all those other modifications people do seem even less wise. Thanks again.

 

[musch]

How about a truck load of safety chain for pennies on the dollar?

How about credit exchange for moving slow selling regional stock?

Monetarily motivated seems to stir the pot. Sorry. But if what you have just posted is true than the above suggestions are probably closer to the reason as mixing and matching brands is taking place. I did not know that Stihl dealers selling Oregon chain get left to their own defenses. It would make sense. However, it makes all those other modifications people do seem even less wise. Thanks again.

Mods aren't neccesarily unwise, but you can be absolutely certain that should you or someone else injure themselves with a modded saw, and someone gets the bright idea to sue Stihl, they will use the non-factory mods as an affirmative defense to the allegation that their product was manufactured with a known defect.
I can't, with the exception of a saw literally blowing up in my hands, see any reason to sue a manufacturer. It is a dangerous product, and the risks are what they are.
That being said, you know there is someone out there.
Thats why you cant even read a user manual anymore, because of all the warnings everywhere.
I would think, if anything, Stihl would ENCOURAGE customers to use Oregon chain, and if something (like injury) occured, they could point the finger at the chain maker instead of bearing the brunt of the suit.
But thats pretty cynical, I know.
I agree that they probably made a bunch of safety chain, and it sits on the shelf. Gotta move that product!!:Eye:

 

[Lakeside53]

How about a truck load of safety chain for pennies on the dollar?

How about credit exchange for moving slow selling regional stock?

Monetarily motivated seems to stir the pot. Sorry. But if what you have just posted is true than the above suggestions are probably closer to the reason as mixing and matching brands is taking place. I did not know that Stihl dealers selling Oregon chain get left to their own defenses. It would make sense. However, it makes all those other modifications people do seem even less wise. Thanks again.

If money was the motivator, we'd just buy Carlton chain - it's $50 a 100ft roll less then stihl at dealer cost. But we don't because it's not even close in quality. And, we do carry our own $10M liability insurance...

 

[Justsaws]

If money was the motivator, we'd just buy Carlton chain - it's $50 a 100ft roll less then stihl at dealer cost. But we don't because it's not even close in quality. And, we do carry our own $10M liability insurance...

Lakeside 53, I am not trying to imply that the dealer you work for is one of the dealers in question. I think that we should be able to agree that not all dealers do business in the same way. The dealers that I am referring to have recently changed the way that they do business and the logic for the change is not obvious. There are many unhappy customers from what I have been told, I am one of them but not for this reason. My reason is +$2.00 bar nuts and other excessive parts charges on my order. One of the reasons that people are unhappy is the reason the dealer is giving for the change. I do not know but was merely trying to get some information.

On a happier note I switched dealers and am quite happy with the new one. He got me a pair of new manual oiler push buttons for a really old saw much faster than I expected at a price I was more than happy with. These were parts that the previous dealer told me were no longer available. The new dealer has always been friendly and happy to track down a part no matter how small and inexpensive. He gets my business.

Carlton chain is one of the brands of safety chain in question and the customer price does not reflect its cheaper wholesale price.

 

[Lakeside53]

ah ha.. more facts!

I know you weren't talking about all dealers, or me, but wasn't sure what you were taking about. The light is starting to glimmer.

 

[Justsaws]

ah ha.. more facts!

I know you weren't talking about all dealers, or me, but wasn't sure what you were taking about. The light is starting to glimmer.

I did not want to use brand names or the non safety chain reasons because I wanted to hear about what all brands of dealers are told by their suppliers in regards to selling types of chain to specific customers. There is more than one dealer behaving in what I would now call a misleading way. Sometimes when brands are mentioned people seem to be more interested in defending or berating the brand than understanding or answering the question.

I stopped going to the one dealer a while ago after the parts pricing situation.

I was told or screamed at about the chain situation by a few people and than more and more. My response to these people has been to find another dealer but that does require driving further and many of them are just not willing to do that. A few of these people asked if I would find out if the reason they were told they could only have safety chain is true. My answer will be that it is partially true but that I think they still need to find a new dealer as there seems to be more shadiness than not.

Thanks again for the responses.

 

[Lakeside53]

If your dealer is selling you a NEW stihl saw with another brand chain (without your consent).. that's wrong. You should at least have the option of taking the chain supplied with the saw (Stihl ships a bar and chain with every saw).

 

[JUDGE1162]

Find a new dealer or order your chains on-line

 

[Bermie]

My Stihl dealer here in Bermuda stocked only all green chains except for a very few yellow chains for one big saw - MS880 - and some carbide chains for stone cutting.
I started asking for yellow chains for my 290, they didn't have any in stock and had to order them in (took 10 days!) - I got a comment the other week, that since I started asking for them, they've started stocking more of them, today I picked up a yellow chain for my 250 today right off the shelf. I reckon they thought it was easier to just have one kind of chain!?

Hey, I paid $25 for a new combi-spanner today, seems like an awful lot, but I needed it, how much do you guys sell them for?

 

[Justsaws]

If your dealer is selling you a NEW stihl saw with another brand chain (without your consent).. that's wrong. You should at least have the option of taking the chain supplied with the saw (Stihl ships a bar and chain with every saw).

I do not think that is what is going on. From what I have been told, people are requesting additional non safety chain and being told that the dealer is no longer allowed to sell non-professional users non-safety chain. Also they are being sold a cheaper wholesale chain at the more expensive chain price.

The saws being purchased new seem to all have saw branded safety chain on them. Replacement chains seem to be a mix of brands with no difference in price.

I do not think that there is seriously fraudulent behavior going on just some overzealous capitalism.

I am going to tell the people who have asked me about it that dealers are allowed to sell chains at there discretion. It is suggested/recommended by the saw manufacturer that the replacement chain be the same as the chain provided by the saw manufacturer but does not have to be. A dealer gets more liability protection following the manufacturers recommendations. I have asked a couple of other dealers and that has been their take on it.

 

[Lakeside53]

Hey, I paid $25 for a new combi-spanner today, seems like an awful lot, but I needed it, how much do you guys sell them for?

Are you talking about a scrench? That used to tighten bar nuts and chain tension? If so the Stihl branded unit is about $13 and we have some junky aftermarket units for about $5.