Race Chain vs Woods Chain Sharpening Angle

[West Texas]

Most stock saws recommend a 30 degree or 35 degree angle on the teeth. Two questions:

1) What angle do you 'racers' put on your race chains? and

2) Would it increase the cut speed on a woods saw to increase the tooth angle to more than 35 degrees?

I realize that a longer tooth could dull easier and have to be sharpened more often; but, if it paid off in results, especially in hard wood, I might be interested in trying it.

Tom

 

[CCC]

i don't think it's a good idea to sharpen the angle of your cutters for hard wood. the first couple of cuts might be faster but then the corners will get knocked off, and it will cut alot slower. so in the long run you'll spend more time resharpening or cutting with a dull chain.
i've heard that some guys sharpen the angles of their cutters when they're in really soft woods (like cedar or aspen), but i don't personally do this.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

I was also going to ask if any of the race chain details would benefit woods saw users.

I was thinking of sharpening angles as well as rivet grinding, rivet grinding to possibly lessen pinch? opcorn:

 

[buck futter]

I remember there was a post that made mention how some race modification may help everyday cutting, like equal cutter length and cleaning the gullets. I hate to have to say this but (Do a search) hahahaha. we need a smilie with a sign saying do a search. I specifically remember geofore posting in that thread. Good luck

Buck

 

[West Texas]

Good point, but one needs to know how to define the search in such a manner as to get the desired question answered; and, I was not very lucky at that. So I asked the obvious. Thanks Buck. Hope it didn't waste too much of your time.

Tom

 

[Lakeside53]

I was also going to ask if any of the race chain details would benefit woods saw users.

I was thinking of sharpening angles as well as rivet grinding, rivet grinding to possibly lessen pinch? opcorn:

Grinding rivits for a general work saws sounds like a recipe for disaster... just use a different chain/bar.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Good work chain is only a mere second or less slower then the fastest race chain, but that is a long time when cutting 2x4's.
Here's a vid of my 385KD cutting a 21 inch rock maple with a basic work chain.
http://www.youtube.com/?v=L5deawyy43Y

 

[West Texas]

That's impressive John. Do you hand file your chain or use a grinder? And if you use a grinder, which one? Thanks.

 

[Gypo Logger]

That's impressive John. Do you hand file your chain or use a grinder? And if you use a grinder, which one? Thanks.

I use a square grinder because that is how I make my race chain and it keeps me on my toes, but hand filing is best if you know what you're doing, but I don't. A good round filer is 10x better than a bad square filer. I grind with a Silvey Pro Sharp. Everything is about finesse, a light touch and an open mind and looking for people to help you and validating them for doing so.
It's really all about people and getting along with the right ones.
John

 

[buck futter]

west texas no problem, I actually hate trying to find information with the search button it is hard to sort and I always get distracted. You could do an experiment with an old chain and file a standard 30 degree angle then a 40 degree and finally a 20 degree. 20 and 40 degree are most likely not very useful for everyday stuff but it would show you how changing the angle will affect the cut. As always let us know how you make out with any experiments.
I am thinking about starting a thread on what I need to do to make a chain cut in frozen wood. I know they say 25 degrees for harder stuff, but it feels like the chain just won't dig in, my rakers are set on a sharp chain with a 30 degree angle, I don't know maybe patience is the only thing.

Buck

 

[Stihl Crazy]

Frozen hardwood

I am working in a stand of frozen rock maple. This is how my chain is set up. I probably file differently than most but it works. Saw is 2159, 8 tooth .325 18 inch bar, Oregon 21 chain. A chain is made aggresive in 2 main ways, too much hook on tooth, or raker cut too much. I file with a 13/64 file to keep hook to a minimum, at half tooth I use 3/16 a hold tip of file up more than normal. Then I file raker to get the performance I want. If I use more hook I don't file raker as much. You won't get angle #'s from me because I can't make a chain cut to suit me using an gauges, but the harder the wood less angle. I am cutting approx 20 cord per day and if I don't hit dirt I can cut most days without touching the chain. Other days I file up to five times. I get paid by what I cut so a dull chain costs me money. I tried square filed but can't get performance I want. I have used race chain for work but only chains I didn't want anymore. I find them not as safe. I file different for chain type,wood, even srocket size. I have been filing free hand for 20 plus years, not even close to perfect, I learn new things every day. The only one that has to like your chain is you.

 

[West Texas]

Thanks Art, that's real helpful. You know I have a very short file in which I keep helpful info; and, this is the second one of yours that I've added to that file. Appreciate it. Tom

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Good work chain is only a mere second or less slower then the fastest race chain,

Either you have very fast work chain or very slow race chain.

 

[Crofter]

Dont think about grinding rivet heads for a work chain. The teeth are wider anyways and that is what the wood pinches on. Race chains usually are working with a well cut back tooth and it does cut down on friction to reduce the rivet heads. The hole in the side strap is counter sunk so it will hold together with the rivet hads cut right off, but it sure is a heck of a lot weaker; ust try breaking a chain with the heads ground off, and without, the next time you make up a new chain.

When you go to square filed or ground chain you can achieve a sharper side plate angle without getting a big weak hook nose that would result if you were to try to get those angles with round filing. But you wont save time cutting wood with a race chain because it is not nearly as tough and a whole heck of a lot harder to file or grind. A dedicated race chain WILL cut roughly 40% faster than a new round filed chain in clean, knot free wood but it is also about as practical in the bush as a race horse skidding logs!

 

[Marky Mark]

Either you have very fast work chain or very slow race chain.

I would have to say Gypo can file one helluva a chain so in his comparison I don't thinks his to far off. For the average Dullard like yourself, I can see where you would come off with your comment.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Ya but Marky, Mike already told us he files like a monkey with a rock.:monkey:
I almost died laughing when he told us that.
John

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

You say that like it's bad.

 

[Stihl Crazy]

I have some square ground chain from two sources, Walkers, Ed. I can get my own round filed race chain to within 1/10 of a sec of Ed's, and faster than Walkers,(this is in 9x9 poplar,one cut). I use Ed's when I race because every 1/10 counts. Ed's chains are great, just don't discount some old round filers.

 

[Gypo Logger]

I find it interesting that you have mad that observation Stihl Crazy. No one has actually made comparisons between square filed and round filed with regards to time. I'll try my square ground against my round filed and see what happens.
John

 

[Marky Mark]

I have some square ground chain from two sources, Walkers, Ed. I can get my own round filed race chain to within 1/10 of a sec of Ed's, and faster than Walkers,(this is in 9x9 poplar,one cut). I use Ed's when I race because every 1/10 counts. Ed's chains are great, just don't discount some old round filers.

What's that say about your race chain??:deadhorse: