renting or buying a splitter

[BigSix]

Electric Splitter NOT a "Dumb Idea"

This is my first post--nothing like coming out swingin', huh?

I know this is a post from last year, but I just saw it. And I'm always amazed at people like "Big Woody". Also, like the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens, I guess I just "...can't keep it in."

This little exchange just slays me: (The first line is from Andy--the "thoughtful response" that follows it is from "Big Woody")

I mean replacing a 8 or 11 hp gas engine with a 5 or 7.5 hp electric motor

Thats really a dumb idea.

Andy, an electric splitter has interested me for a while. As the bulk of your three-page thread illustrated, several people did come forth to state the specific conditions when an electrically-powered splitter would be an advantage.

I am one of those people who would benefit from an electric splitter, in that my friendly, local arborist will drop off a DUMP TRUCK of hardwood logs, at my request--free. His 6 cylinder-powered chipper only accepts logs up to 18" in diameter. I live in a county full of rich, lazy Bush supporters, who don't burn wood. It costs the arborist $200. to tip a truck of logs at the local recycling center.

Hence, I get free logs from 18" to 36" in diameter, free, delivered IN MY YARD, with no branches, etc.... Did I mention that the wood is delivered, to my yard, free? Hence, I have no need to drag a splitter into the woods, where there are (obviously!) no 220v. outlets....

"Big Woody," check this out: My gas splitter sits, tarped, in the same part of my yard, 24/7/365--I'm a civilian, not an aroborista. I have a 10/3 x 100' long extension cord for my mig welder, already. If I had an electric splitter, these would be the advantages:

1. MASSIVE NOISE REDUCTION. I like to listen to talk radio, which is impossible with a hammering B&S engine.

2. Reduced Fume Inhalation. My 5 hp. Briggs does not burn oil, I have gone through the carb and it is finely-tuned--in fact, it runs great. HOWEVER, the fumes ******* bother me! I got out my oxy/acetylene set and brazed up some connectors and copper flex pipe, to run the exhaust 10+' away, via electrical conduit. The noise reduction was neglible, as it's mostly coming right through the block on the B&S (it's no Honda!) and while the fumes were better, the 13' exhaust made it run hot, and a hot restart became impossible. THE FUMES from a dirty, (relatively speaking) 30 year old B&S REALLY BOTHER ME.... And again, this engine is tuned and running well (well, until I lost the spark again, but that's neither here nor there.)

3. NO changing Engine Oil--wouldn't have to do it.

4. No getting the engine's spark back--when I got this freebie splitter, the points plunger on the Briggs had set up, from sitting. I got it to work, but a summer under the tarp has killed the spark--not sure if it's the plunger again, but I have to pull the flywheel (again!) just to find out. An electric splitter would be running already.

5. No keeping it gassed, treating the fuel for storage, cleaning the carb if I forget to treat the fuel.

6. Electric power is less-polluting. We currently get 52% of our electric power in this country from coal and, while that sucks, because coal puts URANIUM (Word!) and Mercury into the atmosphere, it's still cleaner than a non-EPA small gas engine. To wit: running the average lawn mower for ONE HOUR is equivalent to driving a modern, 4 cyl. automobile 350 MILES! I know--seems incredible to me too, but that's what the slide rule guys and gals say....

7. With an electric splitter, I wouldn't be contemplating dragging my gas splitter out of my wood-processing area, running up into the bed of my pickup, and pulling all the tinwork off, so I can pull the flywheel again (hopefully w/o cracking it) to see what's become of my spark. IOW, there's always maintenance with small, gas engines.

Big Woody, please tell me how Andy's hankering for an electric splitter is a "dumb idea," in the face of 1-7, above.

What's "dumb" is thinking that everyone is exactly like you, Woody, with needs, obligations and preferences exactly like yours. That's "dumb," my friend--no, make that "open-class dumb." Like "open-class" racing? Big-bore stuff!

Again, I ****** marvel at people like Big Woody, who look at any idea that they didn't come up with as a "dumb idea" (the "Not Invented Here Syndrome" or NIHS).

Exactly how insecure does one have to be to swat each new idea you DIDN'T have, like a fly, before considering it based on it's merits?

My father would describe that scenario as "putting your mouth in gear before your brain was engaged...."

The type of power source DEPENDS UPON THE USERS GOAL'S, THE POWER SOURCE(S) AVAILABLE AND THE BUDGET.

To say an idea is "dumb" before considering the above is just supplying your audience with the best adjective they could use to describe...you.

Hows'about a little tolerance for the "marketplace of ideas", huh Woody? This site looks excellent, and perhaps it'll even tolerate a liberal, nonprofessional like me. (Well, just giving y'all the benefit o' the doubt here--LOL). And if I float an unconventional idea in the future, I'd like to think people will consider it on its merits (as most did, here, to be fair) rather than slap it with an adjective like "dumb."

"Dumb?"

Seriously?

Andy--I'd like to hear about any successes/experiements you've had with an electric woodsplitter. Assuming I'm not banned on my initial post, you may wish to PM me, to avoid any nasty complications from associating with me. I just find some people to be incredibly...well, you know what I'm thinkin'....

 

[turnkey4099]

To buy or to rent? Depends on one's view point. I saw a $58 quote to rent one somewhere up thread. On the face of it it looks reasonable as the breakeven point of rent/buy would come somewhere around 10 or 12 years down the road. One factor to consider is the convenience of buying.

I have several pieces of equipment that sit around (some 364 days a year) but when I want to use one, it is available. Don't have to make two trips to rent/return one, can change plans as I crawl out of bed in on a Sunday morning, etc. The convience of having something instantly available is worth a lot to me.

Harry K

 

[yooperman]

Although I have a splitter I rented an Iron and Oak splitter with 4 way removeable wedge. It cost me $35.00/day and was alot quieter, faster, and more user friendly. I would rent it when I had 5 full cords bucked up. So it was $7.00/cord(not counting time and travel) . I rented it 1st to try out the Iron&Oak name and was impressed enough to probably go ahead and buy the bigger version as I get more and more customers. That way I can split a few cords at atime instead of busting ass to get 5 cords split in a day by myself.

 

[A. Stanton]

I rented splitters in the past, however, after buying a wood stove insert for the fireplace I decided to buy a Huskee 35 tonner! You not only save on rental fees by buying, but think of all the free wood you pick up and can now split for nothing. And I hate doing maintenance, and there is very little maintenance needed for a splitter. And the most important reason for buying a splitter is re-sale. Think about it, you can run that splitter for 5 years--assuming you took care of it--and turn around and sell it for at least half of what you paid for it. So that $1,500 splitter--in my case--now only costs $750, plus saves me rentals fees and the cost of bought split firewood.

 

[jhellwig]

If I was going to have an electric powered splitter I would run hose instead of cord and have the motor and pump in the garage. Might be more expensive but boy would it be quiet.

 

[BigSix]

Interesting...

Jhellwig:

Re:

If I was going to have an electric powered splitter I would run hose instead of cord and have the motor and pump in the garage. Might be more expensive but boy would it be quiet.

What a great idea!

But how much is 100' feet of hyd. hose? Of course, after our garage is built, I'd only need about 40' feet....

 

[VelvetFoot]

The Home Depot here charges $105/day.

 

[FuzzyOne]

I'm all foy buying. Especially if you are in it for the long haul. Renting is just plain inconvenient. As stated before, there is very little maintenance with a splitter. I only average about 4 cords a year and have owned mine for probably 8 years now. In my opinion it paid for itself. Hell, I paid $800 for it and was recently offered $1,000 (MTD 6.5 BS)....I declined because I couldn't buy anything better for the price.

As for the electric v. gas: I'm a gas person, but I could definitely see the advantages to having electric. There is a guy on the ********** forum that made his own and it looks nice. Here's the link:

http://www.**********/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/6892/

 

[kellog]

Reply on electric splitters

I agree an electric log splitter is not a dumb idea. It depends on the application as well as the principle used in the electric splitter. Hydraulics are very flexible and powerful but are hopelessly inefficient. The principle of a hydraulic splitter (brute force) adds to the malaise.

I can split wood with a maul and I cannot generate more than 1/3 of a horsepower. So really you don’t need much more than that to split wood if you use the correct principle.

See the splitter at the location below if you want to see a splitter that will split wood with 1/10 of the power of the equivalent hydraulic splitter. With so little power requirement, electric becomes very practical albeit still not as flexible (can't split in the woods without a generator or inverter)

ArboristSite.com > Picture Forum > lets see pics of homemade log splitters > post#12

 

[infomet]

Renting is good if you have the discipline to split only once a year!
Otherwise, the cost of capital and transport make the deal unfavorable. Unless, of course, you like the idea of someone else doing the cleaning, storing, and maintenance. I have no discipline, so pull mine out at least ten times a year, usually when I bring home some logs or take a tree down from the yard.

Kellog suggested someone may be interested in these numbers from another thread. I wouldn't run an electric splitter with a detent valve. The motor would not like repeated bogging down and tripping the overheat, which could happen in interlocked or crotch grain. Harbor freight has some really cheap motors. With a 240V extension from your dryer plug or shop panel you can do 5HP and have a pretty good system. It would be nice to run the pump at 1800 RPM, but those motors are much heavier and more expensive. Gear drive is nice, but more work to build.

1g gasoline has 125KBTU
1g kero 135
1g propane 95
1KWH electric 3.4

So gasoline is 125/95=1.32 times as "valuable" as propane.
If propane is $2/g, then gasoline would be "worth" $2.64.

1g gas compares to 125/3.4=37KWH, which costs about $3 here, but electric motors are FAR more efficient than gas engines, so you shouold use electric if possible!

37KWH=37,000/750=50 HPhours at 100% efficiency from the motor.

A gallon of gas will do about 10HPh, far less than an electric motor at 90% (45HPh). In other words, you can't beat the power company!

Propane has no road tax, but is still pretty expensive. If gas is $2.50, propane has to be under 1.90 to break even. If you take off 40 cents road tax, it should be under $1.50!

Propane engines stay cleaner because gas has many components that do not burn well and contaminate the oil and go out as pollution.

Maybe I'll rig up my buzz saw for electric, at least when it's here in the yard!
__________________

 

[kellog]

Reply to Infomet

Infomet, thanks for your perspective. As usual it's well thought out.

 

[pdhowell]

Thoughts on my electric splitter and generator

Folks,

One thing, to me yet unmentioned is the social dimension of wood cutting. I like to cut with a buddy, both for safety, but because we like each other's company. When we put down the saws, I am always amazed at how quiet the woods become. I used to have a gas splitter, but the noise was a problem. It took the fun of working with a buddy away.

I have now a 2hp 20amp/220 volt splitter, running 3000 psi on a 3.5 inch cylinder. Splitting pressure wise, this works out to be slightly more pressure that a four inch cylinder at 2250 to 2500 psi.

It works fine almost all the time. It splits from outside in with the largest pieces. It handles crotches. It does not push through burls. It has all the advantages of an electric motor. My runs a pump at 1750 rpm, and the noise is a whine that is pump noise. I did once hear a 3450 rpm electric that created, to me, a much more irritating pump whine than the noise of any gas engine.

In the woods, I run my splitter off a 5000 watt cheap Powermate generator that I to have anyway for electric outages and which just rolls into the bed of my truck and stays there. (I throw my wood in a trailer.) At the end of an extension cord, it can be fifty feet away, with the muffler pointed away from the work area.

For me, and how I seems to be the best of all worlds. With two of us working together, the throughput is probably greater our larger, 8 hp splitter because we split continuously.

The fatigue level is much less. One can work this splitter all day because it has good height, convenient splitter trays, and relatively little noise. One can work with a partner and talk politics, hunting, or any subject to pass the time and make splitting more enjoyable.

We don't do a lot, maybe 12 cords a year, usually hard maple, locust or oak all of which split easily.

If working together, with several people is a part of your operation, electric may be more favorable.

Hope this helps.

 

[fields_mj]

Well, here's my 2 bits. I burn about the same amount that you do.

I looked at splitters for a while and thought long and hard about them. I've been watching craigslist for over a year, and you can get a pretty decent splitter for $600 to $800 if you are willing to wait. You can get some old home made splitter for about half that, but it will usually need some work. Even at $500, I have a hard time justifying one. The only reason I really feel the need is because I cut a lot in the dead of winter, and I'm cutting the big stuff that no body wanted to mess with. 20" and bigger oak, ash, locust, and such. Burns great, but gives me a real work out trying to split it when it hasn't fully seasoned yet. I thought about renting one for a saturday or a weekend, but that doesn't really help me get the rounds split down small enough that I can lift them into the truck. A lot of the wood is down in the ravines too, so that's also a problem.

My Brother inlaw has an old homemade splitter that needs a new cyl. He got it for about $100, put another $100 into having work done on the engine (dumby could have bought another engine for that price). By the time we put a $150 cyl on it, and another $50 worth of steel and welding rod to get it all mounted up, we'll be at $400. Dad and I are working together on it when we can so that we all share the cost. My BO only burns a cord or two a year, and dad doesn't burn any at all anymore, but maintains the farm we cut on, and helps my BO and I cut from time to time.

This summer I finally broke down and just bought a used 064 saw. I have a big oak in the yard that needs to come down, and I need something that will pull at least a 32" bar to cut it. I capitalized on the excuse to by the saw, and I'm using it as my splitter too. It's slower than a regualar splitter, but I can also carry it to the wood, instead of rolling a 30" round to the splitter and then trying to walk it into position. I just noodle it on the spot. I only get my stuff down small enough to fit into my 10" x 10" furnace door, and if it will split with one or two hits, I do it by hand. If it takes more than that, I break out ol' painless and let her eat. I doubt that I'll ever find a round that she won't be able to handle, including the 6' rounds that will come off the base of the oak that's in the yard (although they are probably hollow). I timed it the other day and it was takeing me about 20 sec to noodle one 18" round of black locust almost in half. I'd roll it 90 degrees and do another cut, stand it up and hit it easy with a 6 lb maul, and it was done. The splitter may cycle faster, but I think by the time I factor in getting the wood to the splitter, the saw may actually be faster.

I've noticed that a lot of guys on here like to split their wood into what I would call kindling. If I had to split stuff down that small, I'd probably stop burning wood. If not, then I would probably go buy my own used splitter, but as it is, my 90cc saw does very well for me.

Mark

 

[BigSix]

Folks,

One thing, to me yet unmentioned is the social dimension of wood cutting. I like to cut with a buddy, both for safety, but because we like each other's company. When we put down the saws, I am always amazed at how quiet the woods become. I used to have a gas splitter, but the noise was a problem. It took the fun of working with a buddy away.

I have now a 2hp 20amp/220 volt splitter, running 3000 psi on a 3.5 inch cylinder. Splitting pressure wise, this works out to be slightly more pressure that a four inch cylinder at 2250 to 2500 psi.

It works fine almost all the time. It splits from outside in with the largest pieces. It handles crotches. It does not push through burls. It has all the advantages of an electric motor. My runs a pump at 1750 rpm, and the noise is a whine that is pump noise. I did once hear a 3450 rpm electric that created, to me, a much more irritating pump whine than the noise of any gas engine.

In the woods, I run my splitter off a 5000 watt cheap Powermate generator that I to have anyway for electric outages and which just rolls into the bed of my truck and stays there. (I throw my wood in a trailer.) At the end of an extension cord, it can be fifty feet away, with the muffler pointed away from the work area.

For me, and how I seems to be the best of all worlds. With two of us working together, the throughput is probably greater our larger, 8 hp splitter because we split continuously.

The fatigue level is much less. One can work this splitter all day because it has good height, convenient splitter trays, and relatively little noise. One can work with a partner and talk politics, hunting, or any subject to pass the time and make splitting more enjoyable.

We don't do a lot, maybe 12 cords a year, usually hard maple, locust or oak all of which split easily.

If working together, with several people is a part of your operation, electric may be more favorable.

Hope this helps.

pdhowell:

I am SO with you on the desire to "...talk politics, hunting, or any subject to pass the time and make splitting more enjoyable."

So I've GOT to ask: what mfr./model splitter do you have, that runs 1,750 RPM? I've heard the Ramsplitter, on video, and I thought it had a rather piercing whine to it (apologies to any Rampsplitter owners--it's still one of my top choices for an electric splitter). I also do not recollect the motor RPM of the Rampsplitter. I was interested in their 16 ton model, which I believe is their biggest. I asked them to build a bigger one for me, but I have not heard back from them.)

If you're comfortable also commenting on what you paid for your splitter, I'd be very interested in that info, as well!

Thanks,

Big Six

 

[pdhowell]

Mr Six, back with info re electric splitter

My splitter is made my Ramsplitter. I think it is a welding shop, and it is located in Rockford, Illinois. Mine is the "16 ton", 10 amp, 230 volt motor, and 3.5 inch ram. I got mine with tables and four way wedge, liftgage delivered to Maryland for something just over a thousand bucks. The weld quality was weld shop, and I used to weld for a living. I just checked their website, but did not see this combination. I think they now put on a smaller motor on this unit. This was about three years ago. I got mine with 120 wiring, but it kept blowing breakers when pulling against the cold oil in the winter, so rewired it to 220 to reduce the amp load. No problems since.

When I got mine, I called there and talked to "Judy", I believe, who knocked the something from their list. To my surprise, it came with 3500 psi hoses, so I checked with a local hydraulics shop, who said to put a good pressure gauge at the ram, (not the valve ), and see what pressure I was actually using. It turned out to be rarely over 1200 psi. The only time it spiked to max was when when I intentionally jammed the ram into a piece of wood crosswise at the foot to stall the ram and make the pump squeal in the bypass mode.

Since hydraulic hoses have a safety factor of four, meaning a burst strength of 12000 psi, and the pressure would be only intermittent, they said setting the valve to 2400 to 3000 psi was OK. I tweaked it up to 2500 psi (from the original 220 or so) , ran it about a year, put the gauge back on, and found it was now running at just about 3000 psi! I just left it there, and have had no problems for several seasons. Pressure wise that makes it a little more powerful than a four inch cylinder at 2500 psi. It splits everything I can load except large walnut burls that have no grain, or splitting planes.

The pump runs at the 1750 rpm of the motor, suggesting that the 11 gpm pum (measured at 3500 rpm) is really only a 5.5 gpm pump. But the smaller volume of the cylinder makes for a unloaded out and back speed of the 18 inch ram fourteen seconds, and you rarely have to run the ram completely through the wood. I have to split wood less than 18 inches to get it in my stove, so a longer ram would not help me out. The valve does briefly downshift to the high pressure port when making many splits, but then tears the wood and reverts to the high speed side.

This combination heats the oil only a small amount. This splitter does not come with a filter, which I am mixed about, but I use an evacuator to pump out the oil after a season, running it through a coffee filter, and have found nothing visible. I replace the oil unless it looks milky (once, from atmospheric moisture during an exceptionally rainy year.


My pump does make noise, but it is nothing as loud as the video which I just looked at. I saw a homemade electric motor/hydraulic pump with a 3450 pump speed on a saw mill and that was very uncomfortable to listen to.

The pump whine is never a problem for conversation. Interestingly , it is the sound of the wood tearing that is the loudest noise.

The generator, when used, is the loudest of all of course.

Hope this helps,