But the take-a mint ( gov.) wasn't pushing it back then.
Running chainsaws (and other twostrokes) on E85
- Thread starter DennisCA
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That I'll disagree with. EV's aren't failing.
Current EV's will handle most people's needs just fine. As battery tech improves, as more people implement solar, as more forms of alternative energy come online and energy storage allows them to take over a bigger and bigger portion of power needs, EV's will shine more and more. It won't be long until it's super cheap to generate and store a huge amount of power, on site, at a standard residence.
I know I know, everyone on this site drives Powerstroke F350s, which you use to haul 12,000lb mini excavators a thousand miles a day, and you're right, EV's aren't able to do that yet. Won't be able to for awhile. The truth is that almost all of the driving population doesn't do that, ever.
300 miles range, and starting with a full "tank" every day, will suit almost everyone just fine. If you don't like them, don't buy one. The internal combustion engine will continue being around for a long time.
I personally can't wait. No more oil changes alone will be a big deal.
Current EV's will handle most people's needs just fine. As battery tech improves, as more people implement solar, as more forms of alternative energy come online and energy storage allows them to take over a bigger and bigger portion of power needs, EV's will shine more and more. It won't be long until it's super cheap to generate and store a huge amount of power, on site, at a standard residence.
I know I know, everyone on this site drives Powerstroke F350s, which you use to haul 12,000lb mini excavators a thousand miles a day, and you're right, EV's aren't able to do that yet. Won't be able to for awhile. The truth is that almost all of the driving population doesn't do that, ever.
300 miles range, and starting with a full "tank" every day, will suit almost everyone just fine. If you don't like them, don't buy one. The internal combustion engine will continue being around for a long time.
I personally can't wait. No more oil changes alone will be a big deal.
EVs have their place, but there are applications where they just aren't that practical.
I have some level of disdain to those drivers they emphasize the "Zero Emissions" badge on their car.
It would be fun to slap a sticker on those cars that says "The Pollution Goes In Before Name Goes On".
I have some level of disdain to those drivers they emphasize the "Zero Emissions" badge on their car.
It would be fun to slap a sticker on those cars that says "The Pollution Goes In Before Name Goes On".
Right. If you're going EV for environmental reasons, and charging from a coal power plant, don't bother. It's still better, but the ROI pollution wise is a LONG time. Charge from hydro, solar, nuke, the numbers change a lot.
Old-Feller
Pretty Fart Smeller
Yes, I have no problem with EV's, It's the Enviro Religion that is tied to it.
ValleyForge
Liberty Farms
EVs failed….this is their second go around and I’ve seen no reason the latest attempt will make it. People just don’t want them. Without government subsidies, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion….
as for batteries, everyone says technology will improve…look at the table below and tell me where?
I'm fine with the novelty saws and tools….but beyond that, I’ll stick with benefits of gas….
I'm not gonna spend hours and days arguing and rebutting, but Henry Ford, and others, wanted to build electric vehicles. It was the Gettys and others that convinced him there was not enough money to be made with electric vehicles. What if Ford had partnered with Edison Co., instead of the oil and gas magnates? Battery technology would probably now be beyond what we we currently know. It's all supposition, I realize, but... On another subject, how much fuel would still be available to us if we hadn't shoved rail freight away, in favor of truck freight?
Guessing millions of gallons per year... BTW, this reply is not specific to Valley's comment, but to the topic in general, and is meant only as food for thought. I'm going to bed soon, and only check in every other week or so, so don't bother beating me up-I really won't care! G'nite
ValleyForge
Liberty Farms
The Green Iron-Fist…..lol
Tell the people who bought the 434k EVs that were sold in 2021 that nobody wants them. They didn't get your memo. That's also 100k more than were sold in 2020, clearly the market isn't topped out.
Oh, and Tesla tax credits(not a subsidy) ended in 2019. The credit only applied to the first so many EVs a manufacturer made, and Tesla is long since past that number. Who's the biggest EV manufacturer today? Tesla, even without the tax credit.
I get it, among the outdoor diesel smoking chainsaw crowd, EVs aren't popular.
super late to this party... but I'm already drunk so?
DON'T ******* DO IT!
ethanol attracts water, water and alcohol are a breeding ground for vinegar, vinegar is an acid, and will destroy your carburetor, fuel lines, gaskets etc etc.
Furthermore, that water attracted by said ethanol will wash down the cylinder walls (steam cleans em really) so the second you run out of fuel, you pretty much have a dry piston, and are likely buying a new saw.
Some modern saws are ok with it, most are not, rule of thumb if it isn't auto tune or fuel infected, don't run ethanol, and if you have to in a pinch, run only fresh fuel, and drain it when your done.
ValleyForge
Liberty Farms
I’d rather speak with the 15 million people with common sense as to why they didn’t buy an EV…lol
and you don’t get it…among people with common sense, EVs aren’t popular….common sense is a precious commodity each generation seems to have less of….
Rather a lame attempt at an ad-hom there. I'm done with you.
Smitty Smithsonite
ArboristSite Operative
I love my big horsepower V8's. I love all engines, but 2-strokes are my favorite. Fast, cheap, light, easy and cheap to rebuild. Nothing to hate there. That said, I'd love it if someone came out with a 400 ft. lb. EV pickup that could pull 10k lbs for 6 hours before needing a quick charge. Nowhere in sight, but maybe someday they'll get there. I'll always own some form of ICE, though. It's in my blood ... probably literally since I'm elbow deep in every kind of them every day.
Keep in mind, just because there's no engine doesn't mean you won't have to change oil in something. While there's no need for a transmission, most of the time regen during braking requires some type of gearing, and even the drives themselves might if the motors can't be located dead center of the wheel hub. I don't care what any manufacturer tells you. I have seen first hand that NO gearbox is "Filled for life". The fluid WILL break down if not changed, and the gearbox WILL fail, costing you BIG.
There is also coolant in Teslas for the battery packs. I'd wager in any lithium powered EV, since they get pretty damned hot when pulling amps out of them. That will need to be serviced, too, or else you'll be needing a new battery pack ($$$$) when your batteries chernobyl when the water pump pukes from lubrication or additive-related failure.
Then who knows what rolling blackouts will effect. They can barely keep the power on up here in MA as it is, and next to nobody owns these things around here. I only see them out near Boston, with a handful around Worcester, and only during the warmer months of the year. Which brings up another point - what happens when you get stranded in a blizzard, nobody moving, and you've got the heat on to stay alive? Doesn't sound good to me ...
In other words, EV's ain't gonna be all rainbows and unicorns. Anything mechanical will still need maintenance and fluids, and even grease if you expect ball joints and tie rod ends to make it much past 40k miles, especially here in the Northeast. But these days it's all about the money, so they'll continue using low-bidder junk, ungreaseable joints.
Another thing to think about, service is going to be sparse when these start to gain mainstream attention. Lots of guys in the business are already getting burned out with the endless, unnecessary and expensive changes every single model year, requiring thousands of dollars in service info and scan tool updates, programming interface changes, and new technologies emerging every other year. Some things will remain the same, like wiper motors, A/C, brake pads, tires, and such, but the propulsion system is ENTIRELY different with a different set of electronics to control it all.
Manufacturers seem to be on a quest to drive mechanics out of business. We're also not attracting much new blood to the industry due to many factors. Mainly that college is pushed on kids as the ONLY option, and trades get noses turned up at them as being "lowly" career choices by millionaire elites running said colleges. The strategy worked - people bought it hook, line, and sinker. So now 12 years or more of crippling debt is somehow a better choice. The other half of it is, we don't get paid nearly enough for all the ******** we have to deal with on a daily basis. Some jobs will have you slogging away, bruising and cutting your body, sometimes for days, when you can only bill for X amount of hours. You pretty much just worked for free most of those hours! NO other industry is like this. Every year engineers come up with new ways to confound the best of us, then we have to go out and buy another $2k worth of special tools that'll be obsolete once these over-engineered shitboxes hit the crusher in 5 years flat. I could rant about this all night ... it gets worse every single model year!
All that to say, things aren't going to be pleasant when it comes time for major service on EVs. Someone who plans to retire within the next 5 years isn't going to invest in the knowledge or tooling for a completely different way of powering a vehicle when they're going to be sipping Mia Tias on a beach (20 miles from home) in 5 years. I foresee big issues there, especially if these get rammed through as quickly as one political party wants to.
Keep in mind, just because there's no engine doesn't mean you won't have to change oil in something. While there's no need for a transmission, most of the time regen during braking requires some type of gearing, and even the drives themselves might if the motors can't be located dead center of the wheel hub. I don't care what any manufacturer tells you. I have seen first hand that NO gearbox is "Filled for life". The fluid WILL break down if not changed, and the gearbox WILL fail, costing you BIG.
There is also coolant in Teslas for the battery packs. I'd wager in any lithium powered EV, since they get pretty damned hot when pulling amps out of them. That will need to be serviced, too, or else you'll be needing a new battery pack ($$$$) when your batteries chernobyl when the water pump pukes from lubrication or additive-related failure.
Then who knows what rolling blackouts will effect. They can barely keep the power on up here in MA as it is, and next to nobody owns these things around here. I only see them out near Boston, with a handful around Worcester, and only during the warmer months of the year. Which brings up another point - what happens when you get stranded in a blizzard, nobody moving, and you've got the heat on to stay alive? Doesn't sound good to me ...
In other words, EV's ain't gonna be all rainbows and unicorns. Anything mechanical will still need maintenance and fluids, and even grease if you expect ball joints and tie rod ends to make it much past 40k miles, especially here in the Northeast. But these days it's all about the money, so they'll continue using low-bidder junk, ungreaseable joints.
Another thing to think about, service is going to be sparse when these start to gain mainstream attention. Lots of guys in the business are already getting burned out with the endless, unnecessary and expensive changes every single model year, requiring thousands of dollars in service info and scan tool updates, programming interface changes, and new technologies emerging every other year. Some things will remain the same, like wiper motors, A/C, brake pads, tires, and such, but the propulsion system is ENTIRELY different with a different set of electronics to control it all.
Manufacturers seem to be on a quest to drive mechanics out of business. We're also not attracting much new blood to the industry due to many factors. Mainly that college is pushed on kids as the ONLY option, and trades get noses turned up at them as being "lowly" career choices by millionaire elites running said colleges. The strategy worked - people bought it hook, line, and sinker. So now 12 years or more of crippling debt is somehow a better choice. The other half of it is, we don't get paid nearly enough for all the ******** we have to deal with on a daily basis. Some jobs will have you slogging away, bruising and cutting your body, sometimes for days, when you can only bill for X amount of hours. You pretty much just worked for free most of those hours! NO other industry is like this. Every year engineers come up with new ways to confound the best of us, then we have to go out and buy another $2k worth of special tools that'll be obsolete once these over-engineered shitboxes hit the crusher in 5 years flat. I could rant about this all night ... it gets worse every single model year!
All that to say, things aren't going to be pleasant when it comes time for major service on EVs. Someone who plans to retire within the next 5 years isn't going to invest in the knowledge or tooling for a completely different way of powering a vehicle when they're going to be sipping Mia Tias on a beach (20 miles from home) in 5 years. I foresee big issues there, especially if these get rammed through as quickly as one political party wants to.
Indeed those are the building blocks, but there are countless ways you can assemble them.
The increase in power density of lithium ion batteries is driven by the plate separators. The thinner you can make them, while maintaining their function and reliability, the higher power density cell you can design.
The fed was never created to do what its doing, until interstates have power grids running under them the ev is a burden on its user. Until container ships, cruise liners and tanker ships are forced to operate cleaner no real difference is being made,
nckcalifornia
ArboristSite Lurker
what you’re all failing to understand is that MY opinion is bigger than yours!
ValleyForge
Liberty Farms
It may be easier to just invent another law of physics…lol
Look at Li atomic number 3 it is pretty anazing they have figured out to make a cell with a max voltage of around 4 volts. I think lithium is the lowest number that is a solid at normal temperatures. Short of some nuclear battery that I do not understand hard to think of something with more potential for a vehicle. However this was supposed to start out as running close to pure ethanol in a small two cycle chainsaw.
To the first sentence I believe that is accurate however the bill I believe it was build back better that many wanted tied to the "infrastructure bill that did pass" would have essentially reversed that policy essentially what ev manufacturers that could produce and sell fast get the $7000 per auto ($1500 max per motorcycle or 10%) until the new batch of funding in the bill was used up.
It may not be a tax credit but there is some method of selling essentially pollution credits. I have read that without selling these credits Tesla would not show a profit.
Old-Feller
Pretty Fart Smeller
Elon Musk's Welfare check is just a lot bigger than your neighbor's!
