Seized up stihl ms290

[Okie]

Ok so I just spoke to him. He had a friend of a friend who apparently works on saws take a look. He put fresh gas in it, ran it, and gave it a tune. He seems to think its fine because he ran it in wood.

Still makes no sense for the abrupt shutdown and locked up starter cord. He's considering taking it to a stihl dealer in collegeville PA just to have a look over. It's a mystery.

Look over by a Stihl pro would be a good thing.
Not really a mystery. Several reasons for such issues that should be diagnosed by a competent person. I may have also seen few pages back where you mentioned that the saw appeared to be very warm or hot. (this excess heat causes piston seizure in the jug) If saw had been running at full throttle and in a cut it probably would have completely ruined, but idling when it seized it may have just loaded to point of dying with minimal damage seizure, hopefully.
Here is one thread that has some hints. and look hint threads for others at the bottom of the page in your thread and at this link.
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...hen-later-spins-ok.290338/page-2#post-5767169

Also if you want to get some experience working on chainsaws get yourself a pile of the new or used Craftsman, Poulans, little bitty homelites and then you will know a good made saw when you see one.
Some of the Craftsman chainsaws (POULANS) have in big BLACK letters (should be big RED warning letters)
FOR OCCASSIONAL USE ONLY on the front page of the owners manual.

This is a heads up hint to expect troubles constantly if you need to do some real work with the craftsman/Poulan saw.
The Craftsman saws are good saws for getting constant chainsaw experience, no great loss if you screw them up, can easily get more $$ in parts into one than a new replacement saw would cost, you should have 3 or 4 as parts saws and try to take all of them and make one when repairing these occasional use saws instead of the high dollar Stihls for experience.

 

[Chris-PA]

Some of the Craftsman chainsaws (POULANS) have in big BLACK letters (should be big RED warning letters)
FOR OCCASSIONAL USE ONLY on the front page of the owners manual.

This is a heads up hint to expect troubles constantly if you need to do some real work with the craftsman/Poulan saw.

You do realize that the subject here is a plastic cased clamshell, basically one of Stihl's copies of a Poulan? Similar materials, similar construction. That isn't a cut on the Stihls, as I'm sure their homeowner saws can do just as much "real work" as my Craftsman/Poulan clamshells do - Stihl just charges way too much for theirs.

 

[Okie]

You do realize that the subject here is a plastic cased clamshell, basically one of Stihl's copies of a Poulan? Similar materials, similar construction. That isn't a cut on the Stihls, as I'm sure their homeowner saws can do just as much "real work" as my Craftsman/Poulan clamshells do - Stihl just charges way too much for theirs.

Stihl making a MS290 chainsaw trying to make a $400 clone copy of a Poulan. That is very funny!
No I did not realize that Stihl had to copy Poulan's design. I never noticed that Polulan parts will fit onto Stihl saws.
If some of my 30 year old stihl saws ever need any replacement parts I'll dig some of Craftsman/Poulans out of the trash and try their parts, but have to keep the Craftsman and Poulans out of sunlight, plastic seems to get brittle if in sunlight for couple hours. Craftsman/Poulan probably should add to the owners manual occasional use only especially in direct sunlight.

Thanks for the Heads Up.

 

[logeeland]

Omg don't believe a word of that. First of all Poulan and Hisqvarna are the cousins. Some of those parts are the same. Stihl is a completely different family. The farm ranch model stihl's are pretty good. Same quality as the 400 series husqvarnas. The huskys you can get at Lowes.

 

[logeeland]

You do realize that the subject here is a plastic cased clamshell, basically one of Stihl's copies of a Poulan? Similar materials, similar construction. That isn't a cut on the Stihls, as I'm sure their homeowner saws can do just as much "real work" as my Craftsman/Poulan clamshells do - Stihl just charges way too much for theirs.

Do me a favor, compare the farm ranch Stihl's to the 400 series "rancher" Husqvarna's. Not to ****** sears and Poulan stuff.

 

[Chris-PA]

Stihl making a MS290 chainsaw trying to make a $400 clone copy of a Poulan. That is very funny!
No I did not realize that Stihl had to copy Poulan's design. I never noticed that Polulan parts will fit onto Stihl saws.
If some of my 30 year old stihl saws ever need any replacement parts I'll dig some of Craftsman/Poulans out of the trash and try their parts, but have to keep the Craftsman and Poulans out of sunlight, plastic seems to get brittle if in sunlight for couple hours. Craftsman/Poulan probably should add to the owners manual occasional use only especially in direct sunlight.

Thanks for the Heads Up.

I never said the parts would interchange. Do you really think Stihl is using any different plastic or aluminum than anyone else is? Do you really believe that if you pay more you get more? The case on my ported 42cc Poulan/Craftsman is over 20 years old and still just fine. I've had my Dad's MS250 apart. He paid $409 for it in 2009, and it isn't built any better or much differently than my Poulans, nor did it work properly until I fixed it. There were no materials or quality differences at all.

The first plastic cased clamshell was the Partner 400, which used the plastic housing for the bottom of the engine - a design that they and Husqvarna used for many years. The Poulans and Stihls that followed used a metal lower pan on the clamshell. Eventually Husky started molding the metal pan into the plastic case as an insert. Chainsaws are commodity items and everyone is copying everyone else, and has been for a long time.

There are certainly differences to the designs, like Stihl uses an inboard clutch that can easily melt the plastic case, and they thread the bar studs into the plastic (that didn't work so well, so they had to add an extension to the engine casting to capture the rear stud on the larger ones). The Poulan Pro 5020 uses and outboard clutch and a mag clutch cover, which is a better design with a plastic case.

 

[Okie]

Omg don't believe a word of that. First of all Poulan and Hisqvarna are the cousins. Some of those parts are the same. Stihl is a completely different family. The farm ranch model stihl's are pretty good. Same quality as the 400 series husqvarnas. The huskys you can get at Lowes.

Right.

Like I said, don't leave your Craftsman/Poulan sitting in the direct hot sunshine or it might be crumbled or melted when you get ready to TRY putting it too some REAL WORK which is NOT RECOMMENDED per their owners manual.. (and store or them in a dark place also, where the sun don't shine)
AND I have some of the Craftsman/Poulans and I just leave them laying around in back of vec's and in woodlot and no one even tries to borrow them or if they do lift one they bring them back promptly without me ever knowing they were gone. I use the Poulan/Craftsman for stumps next to the ground and cleaning fence lines, places where I don't want to use a good saw.

 

[Chris-PA]

And this is why it's so much fun using my cheap crap Poulans to beat "good saws", because everyone just knows they can't do any real work.

 

[Okie]

And this is why it's so much fun using my cheap crap Poulans to beat "good saws", because everyone just knows they can't do any real work.

That is funny. Notice I also give you a like.
I'll remember your bragging comments next time (never heard anyone brag on Craftsman/Poulans before) I'm working on and looking at a Craftsman/Poulan chainsaw (and my Poulans) trying to convince myself they are as good as or better than a Stihl and that Stihl engineers had to copy Poulans design to make a good saw. I'll have to take a break so as to stop laughing while working on the Poulan.
From experience I just cannot bring myself to trust Poulan's and Craftsmans when I need to get er dun.
I always have a Stihl close by as a backup when trying to operate a Poulan so as to finish the job at hand when the Poulan gets tired and quits. (occasional use only per the manual)

 

[VK Johnson]

I had the same dilemma as the OP a few months back...my SIL managed to seize up my MS290...I priced the P&C kit thru Stihl...a little over fifty bucks less than what I paid for the saw new. But, I didn't want to give up on the saw, it was a real fine shape. I initially bought a Stens kit in original displacement, got to mulling the whole thing over, wound up buying the big bore kit from Bailey's...maybe spent more than some folks would, but it was just a quick bolt in deal, said to be pressure and vacuum tested, has a year's warranty.

I had never worked on a saw before either, but tickhound93 stepped up and helped me out, just like all y'all are trying to help out the OP. However, Mr. Snelling makes a good point...I guess it just all depends how much effort the OP and his pal are willing to put into it. I agree, ya gotta start somewhere, but if you take the saw into a professional, just the diagnosis alone might take value vs. spending into the 'no-go- area.

 

[Okie]

I had the same dilemma as the OP a few months back...my SIL managed to seize up my MS290...I priced the P&C kit thru Stihl...a little over fifty bucks less than what I paid for the saw new. But, I didn't want to give up on the saw, it was a real fine shape. I initially bought a Stens kit in original displacement, got to mulling the whole thing over, wound up buying the big bore kit from Bailey's...maybe spent more than some folks would, but it was just a quick bolt in deal, said to be pressure and vacuum tested, has a year's warranty.

I had never worked on a saw before either, but tickhound93 stepped up and helped me out, just like all y'all are trying to help out the OP. However, Mr. Snelling makes a good point...I guess it just all depends how much effort the OP and his pal are willing to put into it. I agree, ya gotta start somewhere, but if you take the saw into a professional, just the diagnosis alone might take value vs. spending into the 'no-go- area.

VK Johnson:
Did you ever figure out just why or maybe why the ms290 Piston/Cylinder seized as the SIL was operating your saw?
(like fuel mix, lean running or just bad luck ?)

 

[Chris-PA]

That is funny. Notice I also give you a like.
I'll remember your bragging comments next time (never heard anyone brag on Craftsman/Poulans before) I'm working on and looking at a Craftsman/Poulan chainsaw (and my Poulans) trying to convince myself they are as good as or better than a Stihl and that Stihl engineers had to copy Poulans design to make a good saw. I'll have to take a break so as to stop laughing while working on the Poulan.
From experience I just cannot bring myself to trust Poulan's and Craftsmans when I need to get er dun.
I always have a Stihl close by as a backup when trying to operate a Poulan so as to finish the job at hand when the Poulan gets tired and quits. (occasional use only per the manual)

As I wrote before, to me the plastic clamshells from Stihl, Husky, Poulan and Echo are all very similar in construction and materials, but different in details. The Stihls can surely be made to run well as the older ones have quad transfers and the newer ones have strato (finally) - my only beef with them is that they cost too much for the name.

Conversely the lowest price Poulans have no A/V and non-plated cylinders, which I think is a step too cheap. Of course, they're going to be straight gassed within a month anyway, so if they start and run I guess that's good enough.

I really do work my Craftsman/Poulan saws hard, and I know I can always count on them. Yes, they all have at least muffler mods and sharp chains, but they're also decently fast, sturdy and have nice A/V. And parts are everywhere.

 

[VK Johnson]

VK Johnson:
Did you ever figure out just why or maybe why the ms290 Piston/Cylinder seized as the SIL was operating your saw?
(like fuel mix, lean running or just bad luck ?)

Yeah, I think he let the chain oil reservoir go empty...it was bone dry when I took the saw apart, the gas tank was about half full, they would pretty much match each other's consumption at the time...there are a couple of other factors that could have contributed. The scoring occurred on the exhaust side of the slug and jug, so it clearly got hot...initially, I thought that maybe he didn't shake up the fuel, thus straight fueling it, but according to experts in here, the scoring would have occurred all the way around had that been the case.

 

[Okie]

Yeah, I think he let the chain oil reservoir go empty...it was bone dry when I took the saw apart, the gas tank was about half full, they would pretty much match each other's consumption at the time...there are a couple of other factors that could have contributed. The scoring occurred on the exhaust side of the slug and jug, so it clearly got hot...initially, I thought that maybe he didn't shake up the fuel, thus straight fueling it, but according to experts in here, the scoring would have occurred all the way around had that been the case.

Did it free up when it cooled or ?(was the piston (slug) aluminum welded to the cylinder (jug)?)
Was it still seized when you were removing the jug?

 

[turtle561]

did they find the cause ?
I just worked on a ms290 where the clutch bearing cage
(plastic) had melted, freeing the needles to bunch up and seize. the oil pump drive wire had come off the gear and there was no oil to the bar and chain.

 

[windthrown]

did they find the cause ?
I just worked on a ms290 where the clutch bearing cage
(plastic) had melted, freeing the needles to bunch up and seize. the oil pump drive wire had come off the gear and there was no oil to the bar and chain.

That is not that uncommon on the 1127 saws, and the 036 saws with the same smaller bearings and clutch drums were notorious for having that happen. It usually happens from inadequate grease on the clutch bearings and they grenade, as you have described. There is an upgrade for the 036 that has a larger bearing and clutch drum that I mentioned above in this thread. That kit will also fit any 1127 saw (but all you really need to do to avoid that from happening is to grease the clutch bearing regularly). I swapped clutch drums from 036 saws that I upgraded with the 360 kits onto my 310 saws so I could run rim drives on them.

As for this thread in general, it seems to be much to do about nothing. Blind men and the elephant.

 

[turtle561]

thanks for the tips windthrown, haven't worked on many 1127 series. it's those cheapcuts they use like small bearings and plastic cages they use that are disappointing to see in a stihl.
is the compression release suppose to pop off when it fires the first time, or is it a manual close design ?

 

[BigOakAdot]

I mentioned earlier the saw was NOT warm and one of the earlier posts on this page mentioned.

So my buddy had a competent chainsaw guy take a look at the saw. I'll post the exact text I received and you guys can let me know if this would cause an abrupt shut down and locked up starter rope.

"Yo got the saw back, runs fine. Slightly boggish when first squeeze trigger but quickly comes to speed. Said idler pin was all ****ed up and barely on"

Thoughts?

And yeah I like the idea of getting some piece of **** saws to work on as a starting point. Wouldn't mind have some as loners for my cousin who has no experience with chainsaws.

 

[Okie]

Anyone know what a idler pin might be?(as mentioned in the prev post)

Is that the thingamajiggy that goes into the whatchama callit?

Just some general info about sluggish: (4 cycling symptoms)You can also review such on-line.

A little boggish can be a good thing if it's not too sluggish when cold and if boggs just little bit when first placed in the cut then loads up ok cut. (momentary sluggish (or called 4 cycle) then picks up the load with good power)
I set my saws H jet out CCW for a slight sluggish then start tweaking very slowly in and right at the point CW in on the H jet where it still cuts good under load. this is usually is the rich setting.
If you don't find a good acceleration point on the H jet sometimes the L jet needs a slight tweaking to get faster throttle acceleration response then go back to the H jet and keep both jets out ccw as far as possible. 1/4 of a turn on jets on some saws can be difference in good and sluggish throttle.
Some manuals incdicate to use a tach and make sure the saw don't (won't) exceed too high a specified max rpm when adjusting the jets. Normally the leaner the saw runs the more rpm's it will develop headed towards self destruct.
Keeping it rich and below spec"ed max rpm may keep the saw from running too hot when cutting under load.

I found that using a infrared thermometer (at the piston jug) gives me a immediate heads up on the jug block temp when the saw IS running lean and overheating or headed for a overheat condition. Non Modded saws that I have checked gradually max out at around 360-380 F jug temp in a heavy cut.
When they are headed for too hot a jug and lockup they usually rapidly get too 400F fast and will keep going if not taken out of the cut. If you see a fast rise to 400F back off throttle and let the saw idle so as too cool off. If you just kill the saw when it's indicating in the hot range the temp can keep rising for awhile.

I did not really think too much about how critical carb adjustments can be to keep operating temps down on saws piston/jug area until I started comparing such with a infrared thermometer and purposely leaning out the saws and testing. Seems Saws that are operating lean are usually also screamers and will run real fast (high rpms and real good throttle response) and cut better than a rich adjusted saw until it gets too hot is one reason why it's easy for a novice to get er adjusted too lean and running hot and possible piston damage or plastic melting. (aluminum piston (skirt) expanding faster than other metal)
If you are making small fast cuts and off the throttle and not any heavy full bar cuts at full throttle and really loading the saw you MIGHT run for quite sometime time before seeing any severe overheating and internal heat damage. (saw not quite getting hot enough for total piston scrub seizure)



.

 

[Kevin Urubek]

Just put in a new short block on a ms 290 same problem ran for about 10 minutes got hot and quit check compression 90 and good spark took off muffler and piston and ring fryed on exhaust side . Any help ?