Someone level with me..... Please!

[Anthony_Va.]

Walmart has these nifty syringe things for measuring out oil. They are only $4 or so.

I use one of those from walmart. It works great. Gotta do four pulls to mix a gallon.

 

[zogger]

My MS310 has been eating ethanol since they first came out - no problems. MS361 the same and is about 4 or 5 years old - no problem. MS 210 a bit older than the 361 same - no problem. Husky 51 so old it started with a pro logger in Canada and I have run it for over 10 years on same type gas - no problem.

Smoked P, etc. is either too lean on tune or accidental straight gas - yes it does happen. IOW it is not the brand of saw that is the problem and it also doesn't depen on Pro or Homeowner quality.

As for running it out of gas eveytime you put it away - no. If for a considerable time then yes but for only a week not needed, not wanted and not good.

Harry K

It really varies, area to area. You can't just say "ethanol causes no problems". It might not in your area, as you indicate, but other areas it kills stuff. This is why we have such a range of personal anecdotal stories on this forum all the time, some guys say no problems, other guys say they get problems, the fuel is just different all over. There's no actual standard "this fuel is identical to all other fuels across the nation" when it comes to pump gas.

I've seen it happen, crap fuel related disasters, and you can go to any small engine repair place around here and see the results in their junk pile, and every wrench I have spoken to says the same thing. And what happens is easily identified, as it melts fuel lines, they don't get old and hard and cracked looking, brittle, they turn to mush. You get a glob of melted plastic. As bplust just said above, he tests and has found some as high as 30% ethanol in his area! I guarantee you if you ran stuff like that in a two stroke you could have some problems.

I just try to avoid it and luckily enough I am just outside the Atlanta EPA region where you can get no ethanol. Go two miles south, you are forced to accept ethanol fuel, as it is illegal for them to offer anything else at the pump. Two miles north, I can get e-free, and that station gets my business, and the fuel doesn't go stale near as fast and the small engines run great on it. I know I can tell the difference between the two closest stations, because I have bought and used from both a lot, and e-free wins hands down, just better overall fuel, two stroke or my four stroke mowers.

 

[Muffler Bearing]

i just checked on the belray,, i can get it here but it only shows that it comes in quart bottles,, so how the heck do measure it out?? right now i am running 45:1 with echo power blend,, i am thinking seriously going down to 40:1

Is that a serious question? :msp_rolleyes:

yep,,, guess i could use a small measuring cup and sit down and do some figuring on how much

Buck-Fifty:
If You Want A 40:1 Ratio, Just Get 41 Teaspoons.

Fill 1 With Oil
Fill The Other 40 With Premium Fuel
Slowly Pour Into Fuel Container
Stir Mix {Do Not Shake} For 40 Seconds

Glad I Could Help.



:msp_wink:

 

[mdavlee]

Ratio rite. Best $5 you'll spend. Oil is cheaper in bulk. If you use a lot buy a quart or bigger at a time. A pint will mix a hair over 5 gallons.

 

[McCulloch1-52]

Would adjusting the Carb Drop the warranty?

 

[Andyshine77]

So let me ask this.......
If you were in a survival situation and could only have one NEW off the shelf saw that you had to purchase today, what make and model would it be?

346xp.Ssimple easy to work on and reliable as dirt, and they can cut some pretty big logs.

 

[tommyus4]

If you were mostly sitting in one spot or moving about a few acres, I could see a 60cc 562xp or the 70cc 441m. But you roam the Ponderosa and carrying extra weight blows.

The 50cc 346xp or its heir apparent, the autotuned 550xp, are two of the best choices out there, considering your needs.

Your dealer might be the nicest guy on the planet but he is one of the reasons (people like me being another) why autotune went to market. Go autotune. I will be next time.

 

[spacemule]

If you were in a survival situation and could only have one NEW off the shelf saw that you had to purchase today, what make and model would it be?[/B]

Depends on what I was cutting. But probably some sort of big cross cut and a file. No fuel. No moving mechanical parts to wear out. Light weight.

 

[SawTroll]

I think it was good of your dealer to go to bat for you the first time. However, I do not believe for a minute that ethanol caused this. The 5100's are known to have lean related failures. My opinion is that this dealer did not set it up right to begin with, pure and simple. As for why your other saw lasted 20 years and this one did not - you can thank the EPA. Your 20 year old saw likely did not have limiter caps on the carb and did not likely leave the factory tuned too lean. Your 5100, however, did and your dealer should have caught it.

That's more like it, this hardly is caused by ethanol - and the 5100S also has an engine cooling issue......

 

[ZeroLife]

Again I will thank everyone here.

I do not post a lot here because I dont have much to offer but I have been following this forum for years because I know equipment needs maintenance and its somewhat of a hobby with me. I take care of my equipment.

I do not cut for a living but myself and two friends have 300 acres of woods and there is always something to cut. I usually spend weekends out there and we always need/use a saw. In addition to this we probably cut 7-10 cords of firewood each year.

I dont mind working on my equipment and will purchase a tach or whatever is needed to maintain it but I want something good.

So let me ask this.......
If you were in a survival situation and could only have one NEW off the shelf saw that you had to purchase today, what make and model would it be?

Stihl MS441CM-tronic full wrap. The M-Tronic should solve your issues and the full wrap model has a high output oiler, so you can run bigger bars no problem.

 

[benp]

Ratio rite. Best $5 you'll spend. Oil is cheaper in bulk. If you use a lot buy a quart or bigger at a time. A pint will mix a hair over 5 gallons.

Ding Ding. No more guessing.:msp_thumbup:

 

[bcsizemo]

i just checked on the belray,, i can get it here but it only shows that it comes in quart bottles,, so how the heck do measure it out?? right now i am running 45:1 with echo power blend,, i am thinking seriously going down to 40:1

I run the Echo Power Blend stuff as well... I'm assuming you have the squeeze/measure bottle? Why not just keep it around when empty and use it to measure with it. I'd say refill it, but without having it in front of me I'm not sure that'd really work well.

 

[sunfish]

Nipper
Again I will thank everyone here.

So let me ask this.......
If you were in a survival situation and could only have one NEW off the shelf saw that you had to purchase today, what make and model would it be?

346xp.Simple easy to work on and reliable as dirt, and they can cut some pretty big logs.

Yep, no question, 346xp is the one!

 

[computeruser]

Would adjusting the Carb Drop the warranty?

Who cares? As was stated above, this is a normal part of running the equipment. They are not set-and-forget. So if doing that would void the warranty, guess the warranty ain't worth much.

Every saw I own that I bought new, every single one, has had its warranty voided before it saw its first tank of mix. They're all still running, cutting wood, and getting the job done. So what did I give up by voiding my warranty? Nothing. What did OP give up by NOT voiding his? Oh yeah, two melted-down saws, one of which is on melt-down number two. Food for thought...

 

[Whitespider]

It really varies, area to area. You can't just say "ethanol causes no problems". It might not in your area, as you indicate, but other areas it kills stuff… the fuel is just different all over. There's no actual standard… you can go to any small engine repair place around here and see the results in their junk pile… because I have bought and used from both a lot, and e-free wins hands down, just better overall fuel, two stroke or my four stroke mowers.

+1, Ethanol kills small engines, especially two-cycle engines.
I’m gonna’ disagree with most of the replies in this post a say that Ethanol can very well be the problem. I’ve seen it first hand… Ethanol can and will destroy a two-cycle engine, even a properly tuned two-cycle engine. I know a lot of guys here use it without problems and I won’t say they’ve been lucky so far… rather I’ll say they haven’t been unlucky so far. Every time you run Ethanol blended fuel in a two-cycle engine is like playing Russian Roulette with it… some day your luck will run out.

At 70[sup]o[/sup] it takes less than 4 teaspoons of water in a gallon a E10 fuel to cause phase separation… and less water than that as the temperature drops (underground tanks are quite a bit cooler). When phase separation occurs in the pump storage tanks the (supposedly) E10 fuel you get from the pump may be E3, or E30, depending on the level in the storage tank; either way can be death to a two-cycle engine. Ethanol has a higher octane level than gas, so if you end up getting the E3 side of it your (supposedly) 90 octane fuel may only be 84 octane… you’re gonna’ have detonation and pre-ignition, with higher engine temps, and a likely scored piston. The E30 side of it is also gonna’ produce extremely high engine temps, with the added “washing-down” of bearings and cylinder walls… pretty much like “straight-gassing” the engine. Fuel additives and engine tuning ain’t gonna’ change the end result… It can’t!

Engine wear is cumulative… every time you use it the engine is that much closer to the end of its useful life. I’ve seen it over, and over, and over again… two-cycle engines fed a steady diet of Ethanol blended fuel do not last near as long as those run on non-Ethanol fuels. And the difference is years of useful life for average guy. The incidences of catastrophic two-cycle engine failure is at least three times higher with those running Ethanol blended fuels over those not running it… Just ask any professional small engine mechanic (at least any in this area). My first two standard questions when anyone brings me a small engine with problems is, “Is the fuel fresh?” And, “Are you using Ethanol blended fuel?” If the engine is a two-cycle and the answer I hear is something like, “I use Ethanol in everything” (pretty common answer here in the Ethanol producing corn belt), I’d give two-to-one odds I’ll find a scored piston… and I’d win the bet at least 75% of the time.

 

[T0RN4D0]

You are taking this oil thing too seriously. I just mix it rich (bout 3%) and don't complicate much about measuring. 5 liters of gas, 1,5dl oil, shake and use. I just check how much is in the bottle first and how much i poured in. That way it doesn't really matter if you miss a bit. I can pour it in all my 2 strokes and i think they actually prefer a bit more oily mix. Luckily we don't have ethanol problems here, we just have gas price problems.

 

[Mastermind]

+1, Ethanol kills small engines, especially two-cycle engines.
I’m gonna’ disagree with most of the replies in this post a say that Ethanol can very well be the problem. I’ve seen it first hand… Ethanol can and will destroy a two-cycle engine, even a properly tuned two-cycle engine. I know a lot of guys here use it without problems and I won’t say they’ve been lucky so far… rather I’ll say they haven’t been unlucky so far. Every time you run Ethanol blended fuel in a two-cycle engine is like playing Russian Roulette with it… some day your luck will run out.

At 70[sup]o[/sup] it takes less than 4 teaspoons of water in a gallon a E10 fuel to cause phase separation… and less water than that as the temperature drops (underground tanks are quite a bit cooler). When phase separation occurs in the pump storage tanks the (supposedly) E10 fuel you get from the pump may be E3, or E30, depending on the level in the storage tank; either way can be death to a two-cycle engine. Ethanol has a higher octane level than gas, so if you end up getting the E3 side of it your (supposedly) 90 octane fuel may only be 84 octane… you’re gonna’ have detonation and pre-ignition, with higher engine temps, and a likely scored piston. The E30 side of it is also gonna’ produce extremely high engine temps, with the added “washing-down” of bearings and cylinder walls… pretty much like “straight-gassing” the engine. Fuel additives and engine tuning ain’t gonna’ change the end result… It can’t!

Engine wear is cumulative… every time you use it the engine is that much closer to the end of its useful life. I’ve seen it over, and over, and over again… two-cycle engines fed a steady diet of Ethanol blended fuel do not last near as long as those run on non-Ethanol fuels. And the difference is years of useful life for average guy. The incidences of catastrophic two-cycle engine failure is at least three times higher with those running Ethanol blended fuels over those not running it… Just ask any professional small engine mechanic (at least any in this area). My first two standard questions when anyone brings me a small engine with problems is, “Is the fuel fresh?” And, “Are you using Ethanol blended fuel?” If the engine is a two-cycle and the answer I hear is something like, “I use Ethanol in everything” (pretty common answer here in the Ethanol producing corn belt), I’d give two-to-one odds I’ll find a scored piston… and I’d win the bet at least 75% of the time.

Great post, and from someone in the trenches of two stroke repair it seems.

I count myself one of the lucky ones. I have a choice between "blended fuel" and real gasoline. I don't buy corn fuels....

I build engines that produce 200psi regularly and send them all over the world. How do they last in this environment? I like to think that when someone spends the coin to have their engine modified they also put some extra thought into their fuel. Out of all the saws I've built over the last few years I've only had one sent back dead.....and that was because of something I did wrong and had nothing to do with the fuel used.

 

[mweba]

Ethanol damages fuel systems, which in turn has the ability to damage the engine. Yes it burns hotter but as with any atmospheric change, the end user is responsible for tuning all equipment accordingly. It is true that all fuel locally is not the same but to say a saw could not be tuned to run on even 25% is false.

I too repair equipment and have a "pile" but to say the it is ethanol fault with no other factors is a tall order.

Learn to tune, keep your fuel system in top order and have common sense when running on 100 degree days and you will enjoy years of service.

 

[mweba]

O yes and get rid of those blasted limited coils if at all possible:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Whitespider]

I too repair equipment and have a "pile" but to say the it is ethanol fault with no other factors is a tall order.

You want more factors? That's simple;

• Start asking each engine owner what they use for fuel (you don't need to comment, just nod).
• Keep a simple notebook record of repairs, types of repairs, type of fuel used, engine age, and whatnot.
• Start two "junk" piles, one for engines fed Ethanol, one for engines fed non-Ethanol... see which one grows faster.

I think your eyes will begin to open somewhat in about 18-24 months.
I don't expect anyone to take my word-for-it (or that of anyone else)... But, I expect them to do their own investigation and fact finding before making a statement like the one quoted above.