Someone please explain what chain guage is all about

[rbtree]

When one rail wears more than the other, this cocks the drive link in the grove and then the grove wears. The grove wears after the rail.
This is why dressing the bar rails is such critical maintainance. As long as the rails are flat, the bar grove will stay true, but once the grove goes out of whack, the rails will quickly wear, even after proper dressing.
Closing the bar rails can give the bar a temporary fix, but if the inside of those rails is worn, the bar is junk.

I think I disagree with ya a bit, Mike. On my cheaper bars, as in lightweight laminated bars for my 346 etc, and climb saw bars, the groove wears quite fast, while the bar rails are just fine, usually. Though I completely agree with the principle of what you describe.

 

[sawinredneck]

As long as the drive sprocket on the chainsaw is 3/8 pitch, you can use any gauge bar and chain...as long as the bar and chain are both the same gauge (and 3/8 pitch).

I'm not familiar with Stihl products, so someone else will have to answer that one for you.

BUT....... on some of the older Huskies they have closed sprocket, my 262xp for example, that has 2 rails and a slot just big enough for the drivers to fit into. .063 will fit, but thats pushing it!!
Andy

 

[coveredinsap]

BUT....... on some of the older Huskies they have closed sprocket, my 262xp for example, that has 2 rails and a slot just big enough for the drivers to fit into. .063 will fit, but thats pushing it!!
Andy

Yes. My Mac, Jonsereds, and Alpina all have this setup. I was speaking about it fitting all the standard gauges. Naturally it wouldn't fit .080 harvester chain. You would have to change to a different (open) drive sprocket for a setup like that.

Is that what you mean?

 

[Mange]

You are off track here...

The differerance is metal mass. Strength, heat, lubrication and drag.

It is not just the guage that differ it is the entire chain in most cases.

Bigger is stronger, carry's more lubrication, takes more heat and takes more power to pull. Not to mension the mass to hold sharp and file.
The smaller takes less power to pull but is not as good when it comes to lube, heat and strength.

The ammount of oil carryed with the drives will coole and decrease resistance.
The more oil that stay's in the bar/chain the better.

(See Mike, I did learn something )

 

[sawinredneck]

Yes. My Mac, Jonsereds, and Alpina all have this setup. I was speaking about it fitting all the standard gauges. Naturally it wouldn't fit .080 harvester chain. You would have to change to a different (open) drive sprocket for a setup like that.

Is that what you mean?

Yep.

 

[lesorubcheek]

I did a little reasearch and came up with nothing. I see .50 and .58 and .63 guage chain and bars for sale. I know they have to be matched. Why do they make different guages? Is one more durable or something?

I don't know the history behind chain gauges but certainly would like to know. I've envisioned it to be the same case as DVD formats or video codes. Options are available because there was no inherent standard and different vendors began producing different products. I can understand having a smaller (.50) gauge for shorter bars and a larger gauge (.63) for longer bars if stresses were such that there would be a higher risk of chain breakage. Point though is that I've run .50 on a 30 inch bar with no problems and have 18" bars with 0.58 simply because that's what it uses. This is a good topic! Anyone out there with some real history on this?

Dan

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I can understand having a smaller (.50) gauge for shorter bars and a larger gauge (.63) for longer bars if stresses were such that there would be a higher risk of chain breakage.
Dan

Here is a picture of a drive link. It's .063 at the top, and .050 where it rides in the grove. How is it weaker?

Here are two cross section drawings of two chainsaw bars. How is an .063 stronger?:

 

[sawinredneck]

In regards to the drive links Mike, the two points it is machined at actually create a stress point and can fracture there. If this is a real problem, I doubt it as there should not be that much side load on the chain to start with, but you did ask.
I really don't belive there is any difference between the consumer market chains, just a propriatay thing to be different. Now with the harvester bars being hyd. fed and constantly loaded, yes, this is probaby needing a larger chain/drive link combo.
Andy

 

[Rspike]

We talk about how strong something is by the gauge , true but how ? I guess we can say that the thicker gauge chain is stronger but now the bar is not as thick . Thick bar ? ( .50 guage ) not the drive links are thinner . I said heck with it when i bought my bars and went .50 guage on all of them . My 372xp has 20" bar 24" , 28" & 32" all in .50 guage.

 

[coveredinsap]

Here is a picture of a drive link. It's .063 at the top, and .050 where it rides in the grove. How is it weaker?

Those are drawings, not "pictures"....and they are most definitely not to scale.

Anyways, I'm going to have to disagree.

Below is a photo i.e. 'picture' of two Oregon chainsaw bars. The bar on the left is an (3/8") .058 gauge, and the bar on the right is a (3/8") .050 gauge. Notice anything different? (Other than the fact that the bar on the right is a pos.)

That's right....not only is the entire .058 bar on the left thicker overall, the rails are thicker too...even after accounting for the uneven wear on the .050 bar.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The bar on the right has a clearly larger grove. Put a micrometer on the outside of the bar and tell us the results. Also include the part number stamped on the side of the two bars.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I just happen to have two bars in my truck, a GB Titanium .063" and a Husky .050", they both are the same width (.179").
Perhaps one of the bars you pictured was an older bar, all my stuff is fairly modern.

 

[coveredinsap]

I just happen to have two bars in my truck, a GB Titanium .063" and a Husky .050", they both are the same width (.179").
Perhaps one of the bars you pictured was an older bar, all my stuff is fairly modern.

Yes, they're both older bars...one from the 70's and one from the 80's.

Would it be possible for you to take a photo of the two bars you have side by side for comparison so we can see the rails? (The 'macro' setting works good on digital cameras for close-up shots.)

 

[RaisedByWolves]

(The 'macro' setting works good on digital cameras for close-up shots.)

Is that what its for? Truly a wealth of knowledge..........

 

[Lakeside53]

Those are drawings, not "pictures"....and they are most definitely not to scale.

Anyways, I'm going to have to disagree.

Below is a photo i.e. 'picture' of two Oregon chainsaw bars. The bar on the left is an (3/8") .058 gauge, and the bar on the right is a (3/8") .050 gauge. Notice anything different? (Other than the fact that the bar on the right is a pos.)

That's right....not only is the entire .058 bar on the left thicker overall, the rails are thicker too...even after accounting for the uneven wear on the .050 bar.

]

Exactly which model bars are they? If they are not of the same series it just apples and oranges, as usual. I can dig up a bunch of old relic bars. chains and they are all over the place, but the bar market has come a long way in the 30 years.

Mike, is correct on the construction of the Stihl 063 and 050 chain. It is the same width - they even use the same cutters and tie straps, not surprisingly. Only the tang width below the tie strap varies. The kerf is also the same for the same series .063 or .050....

There was a thread about a year ago on his exact topic and a bunch of people came to the same correct conclusions, and measurements were made.

:deadhorse:

 

[slipknot]

Wow!! This has turned into a bichin' thread with much debate going on. I guess i will stay with .375 .050 guage, only to invest in top of the line bars. I guess common sense should of told me that! I don't run any stihl equipment, going with that what do you guys think would be the best brand of bar to use for commercial firewood cutting? I cannot afford any Cannon/WP bars. I like the Oregon powermatch bars but was wondering if anything else was better? I would appreciate some oppinion/ experiences. I won't go back to laminated bars as I think that was my problem that made me start this thread. My Homelite 360 was eating Oregon pro-lites for breakfast lunch and dinner. Also How long/(many cords) should i expect for my monies worth? Thanks fellas!

 

[Justsaws]

Slipnot, you might go to the saw shops in your area and ask for the bars out of the scrap bins or at least to see them. Alot of information can be gain by seeing what is being run locally and how it is failing. Also you can ask for old Homelite bars that might need a little work. The old bars usually have lots of grind room. A lot of shops sell used bars, I do not buy new ones anymore. Cannot beat a $10.00 32" Windsor Speed Tip off a dead saw very often.
I grind and straighten a lot of bars with common tools.

Windsor Speed Tip bars from Bailey's look fairly affordable. I have been pleased with my used ones. Also really like Tsumora, probably spelled it wrong.

 

[v8titan]

I just happen to have two bars in my truck, a GB Titanium .063" and a Husky .050", they both are the same width (.179").
Perhaps one of the bars you pictured was an older bar, all my stuff is fairly modern.

I concur on the bar thickness being the same. Here are Dims. on two of my stihl bars one is an E and the other an ES.

Bar#1 20" Rollomatic ES #3003 000 9421, 0.063
Overall bar thickness = 0.175"
Weight = 1235g (2lb - 11.6oz)

Bar#2 20" Rollomatic E #3003 000 8921, 0.050
Overall bar thickness = 0.175"
Weight = 1063g (2lb - 5.4 oz)

Tom

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

....the bar market has come a long way in the 30 years.

Really....for the better? I don't think so. Bars from the 70's and 80's were much better. The quality of the steel was better, the temper was better, and they had more belly which made it easier to make a bigger cut straighter. Now I'm talking on a professional level, not your average wood cutting level. Oregon's quality was better back then, and very cheap. Stihl's bar quality has always been good, but expensive. Cannon was good back then, but some of the others quality went down hill and now Cannon has a very good quality bar at a very high price.

 

[coveredinsap]

....the bar market has come a long way in the 30 years.

Really....for the better? I don't think so. Bars from the 70's and 80's were much better. The quality of the steel was better, the temper was better, and they had more belly which made it easier to make a bigger cut straighter. Now I'm talking on a professional level, not your average wood cutting level. Oregon's quality was better back then, and very cheap. Stihl's bar quality has always been good, but expensive. Cannon was good back then, but some of the others quality went down hill and now Cannon has a very good quality bar at a very high price.

Agreed. Everyone seems to be trying to do things on the cheap these days, including bar manufacturers. It appears that one way they can cut costs is to just make all the bars the same ....and the grooves different. This is not a step forward in quality, it is a step backward.

If you doubt this, look at some of the bars from the 70's and 80's, and compare them to the bars marketed today.

The old Mac bar I have is over 35 years old, and has seen tons of use/misuse. After grinding off all of the rust, fixing some nice sized dents, etc., etc., the bar is back in business doing stump work. I doubt the bars of today will be so lucky 35 years from now. Restoring a good thick piece of steel is one thing....and restoring a thin pos is another thing entirely (and generally not worth the effort).