Starting a Cold Splitter

[cookies]

If the engine was made in the last 5 years the carb on it is jetted so lean that it will not deliver enough fuel to start below roughly 35f. This is going to sound goofy but it will likely be the best choice, a second carburetor re jetted for winter use. My splitter's carb came jetted so lean I could hear the engine fuel ping when set at max rpm when the temps were down under 65f. So I ordered a set of micro drill bits and drilled the main jet up to the next size. Mine now starts on the first pull above 50f and on the second pull below 50f. The other benefit is now I almost never run the machine above 2/3 throttle for splitting. After getting it jetted correctly the engine puts out more torque so the only time it gets run at max rpm is when the rounds are so big the machine must be used vertically because they are far to heavy to lift.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@cookies you should not run an air cooled engine below max rpm, they do not cool properly, same thing with most engines in ag and industrial applications, the entire thing is made to run at full throttle. I have seen many engines either cooked ( air cooled) or the cylinders so glazed over they are junk (liquid cooled diesel) running too cool, there is a reason that things are governed at a specific RPM!

 

[djg james]

@cookies you should not run an air cooled engine below max rpm, they do not cool properly, same thing with most engines in ag and industrial applications, the entire thing is made to run at full throttle. I have seen many engines either cooked ( air cooled) or the cylinders so glazed over they are junk (liquid cooled diesel) running too cool, there is a reason that things are governed at a specific RPM!

I think he's getting the same rpms now at 2/3 throttle that he was before at full throttle after he opened up the jet. That's my take on his comment. I could be wrong though.

 

[djg james]

I've always worried about too thick engine/hydraulic oil when it gets cold outside. Mine resided in an un-heated garage. When the splitter was two years old, I started it cold, it ran for a minute, and then the engine locked up. Disconnected the pump and could not pull the cord. Later I tore the engine apart and found a badly scored piston. Lack of oil?? Because oil was too cold??

I bought a used engine from a lawnmower repair guy that was off a pressure washer for $50. I had several minor issues with it because of its age that I fixed. Now it starts right up in the cold.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@djg james depending on the scoring the more likely cause is too lean of mixture, lack of oil will usually manifest in rod/ journal damage or cam damage, all these new engines are stupid lean. mixture will have little affect on rpms, the governor controls the rpms, and it is made to function with the spring pulled tight to the design tension. the throttle blade may not be near full ope, and likely is not unless under heavy load, but the spring between the throttle lever and the governor needs to be fully pulled.

 

[cookies]

@cookies you should not run an air cooled engine below max rpm, they do not cool properly, same thing with most engines in ag and industrial applications, the entire thing is made to run at full throttle. I have seen many engines either cooked ( air cooled) or the cylinders so glazed over they are junk (liquid cooled diesel) running too cool, there is a reason that things are governed at a specific RPM!

Small air cooled engine manufacturers list their useable rpm range in the owners manual, I don't remember the exact rpm specifics for the one on my splitter but I remember dialing it in using a tach and I remember I can use it from 2/3 throttle up to max and be in the useable rpm range. My machine has a large sticker on the hydraulic oil tank showing the required viscosity of hydraulic oil per temperature range, i'd like to say it says use atf around 34f and below, I'd also be looking at higher flowing filters.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@cookies thats cool, most of them I worked on had a very narrow window of operating range

 

[Chucksta]

I

@cookies you should not run an air cooled engine below max rpm, they do not cool properly, same thing with most engines in ag and industrial applications, the entire thing is made to run at full throttle. I have seen many engines either cooked ( air cooled) or the cylinders so glazed over they are junk (liquid cooled diesel) running too cool, there is a reason that things are governed at a specific RPM!

I'd beg to differ with that.. Although you're right, that the engine speed impacts the cooling of the block of the engine, on most splitters, the engine is under virtually no load when the ram is being reversed, or not moving at all. So, while the ram is doing nothing as you stack wood, move wood, get another piece of wood to split, etc., there's no additional heat load to the unit. When I'm splitting by myself, I doubt if the engine is under load more than 20% of the time. When I am splitting, ( 27 ton splitter), unless it's a really big piece of wood, the engine note seldom changes, indicating that there's very little load on the engine. It just pushes the ram through like there's nothing there. When the ram first contacts the wood, that's where the most load on the engine / pump occurs. Usually, once the wood has cracked, the ram just floats through as it separates the two sides of the split.
I agree with you that an engine under constant load needs full throttle for cooling ( think mower with hydro-static drive, in wet grass, etc.), also especially if it's a 2 stroke application ( Line trimmer, chain saw, etc.), stuff like that can experience a 100% load for a significant amount of time .
But from my experience, a splitter just doesn't have enough of a load on a regular duty cycle, to have to worry about running flat out for cooling purposes. The engine fan seems to only cool the engine, not the hydraulics, although there is a bit of bypass air flow that goes past the hydraulic pump, but if that really needed cooling, there'd be fins on it. . Also, in cooler ( colder) weather, there's way more heat transfer from the engine's fins, due to ambient temperature transfer..
Then again, maybe you, and with some help while splitting, might have a higher loaded duty cycle, than my old retired butt, splitting by myself. In that case you might be right about full throttle operation for proper cooling. Especially on a hot Summer day.
As I posted earlier, I don't usually run wide open, nor do I run anywhere near idle. My splitter has a "happy zone", where it's inherent harmonic vibrations (from the engine) don't make it seem to want to shake itself to death.

Hmmmm.. Liquid cooled diesel, running too cold.. That's a thought for another day, and another thread.. Interesting.

 

[sean donato]

@cookies you should not run an air cooled engine below max rpm, they do not cool properly, same thing with most engines in ag and industrial applications, the entire thing is made to run at full throttle. I have seen many engines either cooked ( air cooled) or the cylinders so glazed over they are junk (liquid cooled diesel) running too cool, there is a reason that things are governed at a specific RPM!

Both those statements are wrong, there isn't an air-cooled engine made that can't be run at different rpm. Max cooling may be at top rated rpm, but the cooling is proportional to the power at a given rpm, assuming you're not overloading the engine at that rpm.
Diesels not ran under enough load will slobber and eventually glaze a cylinder. The coolant temp not coming up is because of this. Low ambient temps don't help this, neither does extended idle time. Its most evident in generators, and pumps. Used to load bank a lot of generators because of this.

 

[Chucksta]

Both those statements are wrong, there isn't an air-cooled engine made that can't be run at different rpm. Max cooling may be at top rated rpm, but the cooling is proportional to the power at a given rpm, assuming you're not overloading the engine at that rpm.
Diesels not ran under enough load will slobber and eventually glaze a cylinder. The coolant temp not coming up is because of this. Low ambient temps don't help this, neither does extended idle time. Its most evident in generators, and pumps. Used to load bank a lot of generators because of this.

More interesting stuff.. I always thought that Diesel engines took longer to warm up to operating temperatures, because they had cast iron blocks. "Back in the day", I ran OTR long haul.. Older stuff, ( from the 70s' and 80s' usually (IIRC), shutterstats.. (SP?).. There were stuff that was like Venetian blinds inside the cores of the rad, and they'd open and close to keep the entice cooling system at the proper temperature. I don't remember seeing the coolant temperature being too low, even after a night in the bunk. I was always toasty warm with the bunkie heater. I always wondered about the rigs that I'd see with the Winter "Bra" on the front of the truck. Made me wonder if the shutterstat wasn't working right, or, if they just went somewhere too cold to keep engine temp up at night in a cross wind. You'd see them during the day, with the front bra opened up in front like a diamond. Too cold, is where you need to have an engine coolant bleed through the Diesel tanks, to keep the fuel from gelling up.
Personally, I've never worried about keeping small 2 strokes revved out to the max. I always told the guys that worked for me to listen for the " Whizzz", of the trimmer line. If they couldn't hear it, they weren't using enough throttle, or didn't have enough line out. Never had a unit fail. Never fouled a plug. Ever. Got a well abused ( commercial use) Echo 225 power head with a gazillion hours on it. Starts right up, takes a second or two to warm up, and then trims like a beaver on crack. Never even thought to worry that I should have run it at WOT to keep the temperatures at optimal for longevity.

 

[sean donato]

More interesting stuff.. I always thought that Diesel engines took longer to warm up to operating temperatures, because they had cast iron blocks. "Back in the day", I ran OTR long haul.. Older stuff, ( from the 70s' and 80s' usually (IIRC), shutterstats.. (SP?).. There were stuff that was like Venetian blinds inside the cores of the rad, and they'd open and close to keep the entice cooling system at the proper temperature. I don't remember seeing the coolant temperature being too low, even after a night in the bunk. I was always toasty warm with the bunkie heater. I always wondered about the rigs that I'd see with the Winter "Bra" on the front of the truck. Made me wonder if the shutterstat wasn't working right, or, if they just went somewhere too cold to keep engine temp up at night in a cross wind. You'd see them during the day, with the front bra opened up in front like a diamond. Too cold, is where you need to have an engine coolant bleed through the Diesel tanks, to keep the fuel from gelling up.
Personally, I've never worried about keeping small 2 strokes revved out to the max. I always told the guys that worked for me to listen for the " Whizzz", of the trimmer line. If they couldn't hear it, they weren't using enough throttle, or didn't have enough line out. Never had a unit fail. Never fouled a plug. Ever. Got a well abused ( commercial use) Echo 225 power head with a gazillion hours on it. Starts right up, takes a second or two to warm up, and then trims like a beaver on crack. Never even thought to worry that I should have run it at WOT to keep the temperatures at optimal for longevity.

The shutters went away fairly quickly back in the day in favor of thermostats. More precise control of engine temperature. Most use multiple thermostats as well. Diesels by nature are cold blooded. They don't run nearly as hot as a gas engine. Bras/winter fronts used to be quite normal for this reason, I still run winter fronts (well they are tucked inbetween the condenser and radiator.) On my truck and vw tdi. Running otr, you're not used loads of power consistently so the engines arnt seeing heavy load till you're on a grade, getting up to speed etc. Once you're up to speed, you're using much less fuel to maintain speed, as a byproduct of that you're not making the heat. So another nod to using a winter front to help keep the engine at operating temperature.
Air cooled engines are far less finicky about operating temps within reason and dont have the wet stacking issues diesels do. I've never seen a gas powered engine wet stack, liquid or air cooled. i have seen them glaze cylinders over, but this is usually evident right away, and points to several issues with ring seating procedures/improper surface finish of the cylinders walls.
I don't worry about such things with my 2 strokes or well any of my small o. P. E. Just not an issue if the engine is running well.

 

[sundance]

If the engine was made in the last 5 years the carb on it is jetted so lean that it will not deliver enough fuel to start below roughly 35f. This is going to sound goofy but it will likely be the best choice, a second carburetor re jetted for winter use. My splitter's carb came jetted so lean I could hear the engine fuel ping when set at max rpm when the temps were down under 65f. So I ordered a set of micro drill bits and drilled the main jet up to the next size. Mine now starts on the first pull above 50f and on the second pull below 50f. The other benefit is now I almost never run the machine above 2/3 throttle for splitting. After getting it jetted correctly the engine puts out more torque so the only time it gets run at max rpm is when the rounds are so big the machine must be used vertically because they are far to heavy to lift.

The engine is about 20 years old. I did put an AM carb on it for him about a year ago.

 

[sean donato]

Cookies statement is bs FYI. The engines have to meet emissions irregardless of what they are couppled to. they are general purpose engines, with very little to do with specifically running a log splitter. They do not just cherry pick a "fuel efficient" engine and lean it out. There's so much more that goes into meeting emissions then how lean you run an engine, especially in a 4 stroke engine.
Loop scavenged 2 strokes were leaned out because they would push fuel/air mix out the exhaust, during transfer as a function of scavenging. Ideally non of the fresh charge would be lost, but it seldom worked out like that.
Fuel enriching for cold start is done via the choke, if you fatten a jet up it's fat, sure the choke will pull more fuel from it to aid in cold starting, but we're already trying to flood the engine to get enough fuel to vaporize when the engine is cold by using the choke.
All the cold fluid is doing is slowing down cranking rpm and not allowing the compression to build fast enough to get all that fuel to vaporize. A reason why electric start engine don't usually have the issues starting that pull start engine do. They can maintain a higher cranking speed, sucking more fuel and getting to the compression event faster creating more heat to help the fuel vaporize, even when under a slight load. Every liquid fuel engine has the same issues.

 

[cookies]

Cookies statement is bs FYI. The engines have to meet emissions irregardless of what they are couppled to. they are general purpose engines, with very little to do with specifically running a log splitter. They do not just cherry pick a "fuel efficient" engine and lean it out. There's so much more that goes into meeting emissions then how lean you run an engine, especially in a 4 stroke engine.
Loop scavenged 2 strokes were leaned out because they would push fuel/air mix out the exhaust, during transfer as a function of scavenging. Ideally non of the fresh charge would be lost, but it seldom worked out like that.
Fuel enriching for cold start is done via the choke, if you fatten a jet up it's fat, sure the choke will pull more fuel from it to aid in cold starting, but we're already trying to flood the engine to get enough fuel to vaporize when the engine is cold by using the choke.
All the cold fluid is doing is slowing down cranking rpm and not allowing the compression to build fast enough to get all that fuel to vaporize. A reason why electric start engine don't usually have the issues starting that pull start engine do. They can maintain a higher cranking speed, sucking more fuel and getting to the compression event faster creating more heat to help the fuel vaporize, even when under a slight load. Every liquid fuel engine has the same issues.

Cold air needs a denser fuel charge to ignite, pump air in thats at or below freezing and your going to need a lot more fuel. Most all of these horizontal engines under 13hp are copies off 10+ year old honda designs the patents ran out on. Yet emissions regulations keep tightening . If you think manufacturers will not setup carbs to too lean to meet emissions on old copied designed engines in order to sell units you havent seen much in the world of engine repair. As a added bonus fun fact honda is discontinuing all of their small engine manufacturing over the next year.

 

[sean donato]

Cold air needs a denser fuel charge to ignite, pump air in thats at or below freezing and your going to need a lot more fuel. Most all of these horizontal engines under 13hp are copies off 10+ year old honda designs the patents ran out on. Yet emissions regulations keep tightening . If you think manufacturers will not setup carbs to too lean to meet emissions on old copied designed engines in order to sell units you havent seen much in the world of engine repair. As a added bonus fun fact honda is discontinuing all of their small engine manufacturing over the next year.

Cold air does need more fuel, however it not as much as you think, especially in a na engine. Cold start issues are not jetting issues, it's a lack of vaporization of the liquid fuel. The choke is responsible for flooding the engine with enough fuel for cold start.
Just leaning an engine out will not magically make an old design pass emissions, the fact you say that leads me to think you've never sat through any sort of small engine update classes and seen how the mfg have changed the engines over the years to deal with it. The government even tightened down on "clone" engines several years ago for not meeting epa standards. 90% of your "tuned lean" in 4 strokes issues is directly reflected by storage/no maintenance and pore fuel quality issues. I got news for you, it's been the same issue for mire years then I can remember.
I truthfully couldn't care less that honda is going full on tree hugger, and has no merit in the discussion of how a small engine meets emission standards. Just because you think it's limited to how lean an engine is does not mean it's true or even an accurate statement. So much more goes into it then that.

 

[Automender]

I once adjusted the carb on my 30 year old Jacobson snowblower in the summer and then tried to start it in the winter. It ran terrible until I readjusted the carb. Big difference between air density between 80 degrees and 20 degrees, it was running way to lean.

 

[sean donato]

I once adjusted the carb on my 30 year old Jacobson snowblower in the summer and then tried to start it in the winter. It ran terrible until I readjusted the carb. Big difference between air density between 80 degrees and 20 degrees, it was running way to lean.

It's 0.0100lb/ft³ differamce from 20*f to 80*f. Assuming sea level and not factoring humidity or any other environmental factors. Should have been a very minor adjustment.

 

[Brufab]

Haven't had issues in the cold with my county line. But in summer I run a box fan on my splitter to help keep it cool and use a temp gun to check every so often. Im cycling the splitter as fast as it can work lol