Stihl Ultra Oil....JASO FB rating

[BBush]

I know a lot of people on this forum feel that the Stihl Ultra oil is one of the superior oils on the market to run in chainsaws. I was just looking at the back of one of the containers of their oil and at says that it is JASO FB (and API TC/TC+) rated. It is my understanding that the oils that are FC and FD rated are considered better than the ones that are FB rated. Why is the Stihl Ultra oil considered so good when it is only FB rated while some of the other oils that people are using are FC and FD rated? I would have thought that a synthetic oil, especially Stihl's top of the line oil, would at least be FC rated at the least. Am I missing something?

 

[ironman_gq]

Just because its not on the bottle doesnt mean that it doesnt meet a higher rating standard. It costs money to get something certified and they must not think it will help their sales much by getting the extra letters on the bottle.

 

[mikefunaro]

Someone at stihl basically told me that stihl engineers doubt some of the relevancy of the jaso ratings to chainsaw use, on the grounds that they are used for testing in motorcycles. I dont think anyone doubts that it is a good quality oil. It's unclear whether there is an aspect of the oil which will not meet the standard for some reason or whether they are not paying to have it tested to that level. You may call omni specialty packaging and speak with them, they should be able to give you an answer. Omni is the blender and bottler for stihl.

 

[BloodOnTheIce]

Someone at stihl basically told me that stihl engineers doubt some of the relevancy of the jaso ratings to chainsaw use, on the grounds that they are used for testing in motorcycles. I dont think anyone doubts that it is a good quality oil. It's unclear whether there is an aspect of the oil which will not meet the standard for some reason or whether they are not paying to have it tested to that level. You may call omni specialty packaging and speak with them, they should be able to give you an answer. Omni is the blender and bottler for stihl.

Not even motorcycles, but 2 stroke mopeds.

 

[indiansprings]

I may be blindly naive, but I don't think the engineers at Stihl would ever comprimise the performance/longevity of putting such an important component of good two stroke performance with out it meeting very stringent standards. I'd guess they've had thousand of hours running engines in test cells with engines being torn down at regular intervals and measured for wear and carbon build up. Not that your question isn't a valid one, after spending good money on a saw you want to make sure it gets the proper diet.

 

[JasonBmac]

The main differences between FB, FC and FD are detergent levels and smoke. Stihl ultra has enough detergents to keep a saw clean, there is little benefit to providing more.

A saw runs wide open most of the time... A moped at part throttle. The moped simply NEEDS better detergents than teh saw does.

Stihl has likely provided a product engineered for the needs of the machine, rather than the wants of someone else's machine.

JMHO.

J

 

[Paul001]

The main differences between FB, FC and FD are detergent levels and smoke. Stihl ultra has enough detergents to keep a saw clean, there is little benefit to providing more.

A saw runs wide open most of the time... A moped at part throttle. The moped simply NEEDS better detergents than teh saw does.

Stihl has likely provided a product engineered for the needs of the machine, rather than the wants of someone else's machine.

JMHO.

J

Well stated. Many times people are under the misconception that higher ratings mean you are getting better...

 

[tdi-rick]

Well stated. Many times people are under the misconception that higher ratings mean you are getting better...

You are, better levels of detergency, less smoke and less splooge in the muffler

Actually, the JASO tests are for all two strokes, and they measure lubricity, smoke, detergency and exhaust system blocking.

I can't find anywhere it says 'primarily for scooters', in fact it says at notation 3 of the Foreward:

"Although Japan is a major country producing two cycle engines used in motorcycles, utility equipment, outboard motors, etc. there have been no formal standards for two cycle oils.
As a result, in the case where two cycle oils of low quality are used in recently developed, high power engines, the engines sometimes have experience performance problems....."
(my bold)


If I can copy out of the JASO procedures/schedules/tests PDF I have I'll post up the relevant sections. (it's a secured file)

Anyway, in a nutshell these are the difference s between the three standards.

Lubricity and torque are identical parameters across all three JASO standards.

Detergency is different between FB and FC in the order of 10 points (85 to 95 on their rating chart) after 60 minutes running on the 'fundamental part' (crown or chamber ?).

FD's minimum is 125 after 180 minutes on the 'fundamental part' and 95 on the piston skirt.

Exhaust smoke is 45 for FB and 85 for FC/FD.

Exhaust system blocking is 45 for FB and 95 for FC/FD.

They also specify minimum kinematic viscosities, flash points and sulphated ash %

The report I have from '08 states that each test fee and licence is Y40,000.

 

[GASoline71]

You're absolutely correct! I will cease using it immediately. What the hell was I thinkin'??? Not readin' all the fine print and havin' the oil diagnosed by a chemist...


Whatever...

Gary

 

[indiansprings]

You're absolutely correct! I will cease using it immediately. What the hell was I thinkin'??? Not readin' all the fine print and havin' the oil diagnosed by a chemist...


Whatever...

Gary

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
rep sent

 

[smokinj]

You're absolutely correct! I will cease using it immediately. What the hell was I thinkin'??? Not readin' all the fine print and havin' the oil diagnosed by a chemist...


Whatever...

Gary

oh crap I have used in the ball park of 100gals+ what should I do Now!

 

[REJ2]

I wonder how all this would read if the Stihl oil was the higher certified but the other favorites were not? Imagine the possibilities. REJ2

 

[Cantdog]

Not a Flag Waver!!!

By looking at my sig you will see I'm certainnly no flag waving Stihl guy!! However I use Stihl Ultra these days and have found the least carbon buildup on my saws ever. I've use a number of different 2 cycle oils over the yrs and to date this is the best allround saw oil I've seen. I am no scientist by any means but when the question is asked and responded to with real and factual information why have a bad spell guys??? I am in firm accord with tiresome oil threads however if the question is asked and answered by someone in the know and answers it with credible info, take it for what it's worth. There is no part of a saw that any of us know all the knowledge about. From oil to pull cords. However this is the internet and open to all so please don't give others **** because they perhaps know how to answer the question with accuracy instead of BS!! Don't get all pi$$y Gary just my opionon. LOL!!

 

[Erick]

I believe I said this in last months oil thread.

Now if I haven't ruffled enough feathers with all that..... I'm not really a big fan of Stihl Ultra either...... there I said it and I isn’t ashamed.

 

[Andyshine77]

:agree2:Erick I forget, was it last months oil threat or was it the one two weeks ago?

 

[GASoline71]

oh crap I have used in the ball park of 100gals+ what should I do Now!

You prolly need need new P&C's in all your saws... that oil is terrible!

Gary

 

[CentaurG2]

Not sure what ultra does or does not do for chainsaws but I think it was developed by stihl specifically for the 4-mix engine. I used to run my FS130r and all my chainsaws on Husky pro (semi synthetic) at 50:1. Never had a problem in the saws but the plugs out of the fs130 would look like burn marshmallows. These plugs cost $9 bucks each so I switched to Stihl Ultra at 50:1 and now the plugs out of the FS130 look like new. Saws?? Well I ran my ms361 since new on ultra and it developed plenty of carbon on top of the piston. Conclusions? Nothing concrete. Ultra works fine in saws but may not be optimal for chainsaws. I dont think it is any worse than any other oil on the market but is it better?? Why take the chance?? As far as the 4 mixer is concerned, if you run one, run ultra. As a side note, I am currently running the FS130 on saber pro at 50:1. I am interested to see if it makes any difference in this unit.

 

[smokinj]

You prolly need need new P&C's in all your saws... that oil is terrible!

Gary

Thats what I was affarid of will start breaking them down asap!

 

[ray benson]

Actually, the JASO tests are for all two strokes, and they measure lubricity, smoke, detergency and exhaust system blocking.

I can't find anywhere it says 'primarily for scooters', in fact it says at notation 3 of the Foreward:

"Although Japan is a major country producing two cycle engines used in motorcycles, utility equipment, outboard motors, etc. there have been no formal standards for two cycle oils.
As a result, in the case where two cycle oils of low quality are used in recently developed, high power engines, the engines sometimes have experience performance problems....."
(my bold)


If I can copy out of the JASO procedures/schedules/tests PDF I have I'll post up the relevant sections. (it's a secured file)

Anyway, in a nutshell these are the difference s between the three standards.

Lubricity and torque are identical parameters across all three JASO standards.

Detergency is different between FB and FC in the order of 10 points (85 to 95 on their rating chart) after 60 minutes running on the 'fundamental part' (crown or chamber ?).

FD's minimum is 125 after 180 minutes on the 'fundamental part' and 95 on the piston skirt.

Exhaust smoke is 45 for FB and 85 for FC/FD.

Exhaust system blocking is 45 for FB and 95 for FC/FD.

They also specify minimum kinematic viscosities, flash points and sulphated ash %

The report I have from '08 states that each test fee and licence is Y40,000.

Believe the engines used in the tests are a Honda AF27 49cc and a Suzuki SX800R 69cc

 

[cpr]

I quit using Klotz R50, not rated.

Now I'm using secondhand Rotella from a Detroit Series 60 in a Volvo with a leaky head gasket... Better cooling with that Dexcool right in the fuel.

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