Super EZ fuel issues

[JW51]

Did not read all of this: See where you are flogging a SEZ. I have several tha tI like and that I've repaired.

First when the Low idle jet won't adjust the idle properly, you need to do a pressure vacuum test of the crankcase.
Quite common for the cylinder to block nuts to be loose and the gasket leaking.

As for removing and installing the carb, yes they are not user friendly for re-install. I wrote a series on here sometimes back about step by step re-install procedures. (one is taking a drill bit same size as the throttle rod and drilling the carb throttle rod hole at that angle while the carb throttle is held wide open. Also tie the carb throttle wide open with a little tie wire before trying to re-install. (allows you to see and guide the throttle rod into place) You will get the idea when you look at it. 99% of time if the crankcase is sealed good and a carb won't adjust for good idle you have a bad carb. Using high pressure air when cleaning can ruin one of those carbs also.
I sometimes run into a carb that just won't go but very seldom. I keep a good spare carb around for testing.
Yep them oil lines can be a pain in the AXE also.

I've never seen bad reed valves in a EZ.

Thanks. Flogging is a fairly apt term here. Not because the saw is bad. but it’s completely different than anything I’m used to. Despite what looks like a lot of struggles here, I’m pretty fond of it.

I had fully planned to rig up a vac/pressure test before I button things up again. Also going to pressure test the carb. The saw actually ran decently for a while during a test run, before it started acting up again.

I’m not totally convinced the reeds are bad. But a couple of them showed some daylight and it was too cheap not to do while it was torn down this far.

Good tip on the cylinder bolts. One of the 4 looks like a real pain to access with a special wrench of some sort.

I’ve had the carb off several times now, and I’ve taken to just removing the grip and linkage from the trigger side. Pretty easy that way, but I’ll have to try your suggestions as well.

 

[Okie]

Thanks. Flogging is a fairly apt term here. Not because the saw is bad. but it’s completely different than anything I’m used to. Despite what looks like a lot of struggles here, I’m pretty fond of it.

I had fully planned to rig up a vac/pressure test before I button things up again. Also going to pressure test the carb. The saw actually ran decently for a while during a test run, before it started acting up again.

I’m not totally convinced the reeds are bad. But a couple of them showed some daylight and it was too cheap not to do while it was torn down this far.

Good tip on the cylinder bolts. One of the 4 looks like a real pain to access with a special wrench of some sort.

I’ve had the carb off several times now, and I’ve taken to just removing the grip and linkage from the trigger side. Pretty easy that way, but I’ll have to try your suggestions as well.

One of the 4 looks like a real pain to access with a special wrench of some sort.

You can take a 12 point box end 1/2 inch end wrench and go to a grinder and thin it down in height and you will probably have to thin out the diameter so as it will fit onto the 1/2 inch nuts. Just don't get the metal excessively hot when grinding and use a cup of water to quench cool it down quite often. (Do not get it blue hot) You need a 12 point because a 6 point won't allow enough wrenching each time. If you find any of them that requires a 1/4 turn or more to tighten their is a chance that the gasket will be bad also and tightening them won't stop a crankcase leak. Only way to know for sure if tightening them sealed the area is to test run the saw for a good idle or pressure test the crankcase at not over 5 lbs and use water soap mix around the base of the cylinder.
It's common for the compression relief valve to leak air. It don't leak enough to upset the saw when it's running because it only leaks little bit on the compression stroke of the piston, etc. I take something like a golf wooden tee stick and hold it into the compression release plunger hole after removing the pintle valve or try to hold something over it. It will be readily apparent if the cylinder to case gasket is leaking air using 5 lbs. Also do not use over 5 lbs of air to the carb.
Also look at the bottom of the ez case, some have a thin place over towards to clutch area on bottom and if dropped or used around rocks, etc, can crack or weak thin and leak. It will be apparent because the paint will be gone from that area on the bottom of the saw.

Them are good saws and worth the effort to try and get it restored and going.
Lots of parts and pieces on ebay.

 

[Okie]

A tip:

From experience with the Ez's.

Keep a eye and ear open for another EZ saw, preferably a good runner at a reasonable price.

Why: they are good saws AND you will find if you have a erratic one, you can transfer parts from the good runner to the erratic one to help eliminate the bad part. Saves a lot of time when working on a EZ, especially if you think maybe you have carb problems. If you work on very many EZ's you will eventually run into one that you swear is a bad carb and then swap that carb onto another saw and it runs good. I'm usually good with repairing carbs, but I've run into couple of the EZ carbs that I just could not fix, something wrong deep inside (small check valve inside the body that can be ruined with high pressure air for example) that is not a serviceable part, etc.
You have to keep a heads up because of two different ignition systems (phelon and wico) and parts including the flywheels are not interchangeable. The Wico type is more common.

I see you also mentioned that it seemed the saw idle changes as you tip or turn the saw's engine on it's side or upside down with the bar and chain off. This can sometimes be a hint that a crank seal may be old and leaking, especially the one on the bar/chain end of the crank. If you put the bar and chain on and snug up the chain and the idle gets worse or more erratic as compared to when the chain if off or real loose is another hint. Sometimes you can just loosen the chain and the engine will idle better or different. The chain tensions the crank just enough that the old dried seal leaks little bit more, upsets the low idle jet and the Crank bearing itself is still ok, just a old dried seal slightly leaking on the clutch end of the crank.. You can usually confirm such by pressure testing the crankcase with not over 5 lbs of air and slowly rotating the crank with the clutch removed so as to soap and water the clutch side seal.

Also keep in mind on those type carbs if the L jet is not adjusting, (not having any or very little effect on the low idle) the carb throttle plate may be too far open and the carb is running on the intermediate transition area and the H jet and not the L jet. This is due to carb issue or crankcase leaks, etc and the low idle screw maybe in too far holding the throttle plate open too far to keep the saw running and the L jet area is being bypassed. for example.

 

[lostone]

Okie, all good advice. I have two of the EZ saws myself and both running condition but I also have two back up carbs and a spare wico flywheel and coil.
I also agree on the seals and had to replace them on one of my saws but did the second saw just because. Nice thing is they are relatively easy to get to and do. A modified screwdriver works great for pulling the old ones out.

 

[JW51]

Back to it. Finally got a free weekend and MacGuyver’d up a pressure/ vac test. Took me a while to figure out a way to plug the decomp.

Only leak I can find appears to be from base of the little protrusion that holds the decomp valve.

Is this part of the casting? Or a sleeve of some sort that is press-fit into the casting?

Is a leak here something worth fretting about? Or just move on since then decomp will probably leak anyway?

 

[Okie]

Is a leak here something worth fretting about? Or just move ok since then decomp will probably leak anyway?

You are correct that the de-comp valve will leak some anyway and some leakage at the valve is normal.

Did you test around the cylinder jug to block good as good with no leaks?
You should check the 4 jug nuts (with the Macgiver wrench I mentioned above) even if it don't leak at this area. It's quite common for them to need 1/8-1/4 turn and if not tight will cause problems later as the engine warms/cools.

 

[JW51]

I’m not talking about leak from where the decomp needle seats. I plugged that. It appears to be on the OUTSIDE of the decomp. Where the little protrusion meets the cylinder.

It leaks down very slowly. But you can see if when spraying soapy water.

 

[Okie]

[QUOTE="JW51, post: 7141730, member: 160947"]I’m not talking about leak from where the decomp needle seats. I plugged that. It appears to be on the OUTSIDE of the decomp. Where the little protrusion meets the cylinder.

It leaks down very slowly. But you can see if when spraying soapy water.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I noticed you indicated the leak is at at the base of the valve. I've never noticed a leak at that area and appears that the valve is made into the head. A EZ when all else is correct will run with the decompression valve open relieving compression, so i think you are correct in assuming that it will be ok since the leak is on the compression side of the piston and not on the crankcase intake side. (crankcase leaking is what upsets the idle due to air bypassing the carb intake) I've seen several of the EZ decompression valves leak severely and the engine still run and idle ok.
You say the EZ idles for awhile and then eventually gets a erratic idle or the idle changes.

You might have to try a different carb.

 

[Okie]

I see some EZ carbs on flea bay for $15 to $21 with free shipping a a 30 day free refund from a 99% feedback seller for example.

here is one that looks clean

I keep a good spare carb around for my Ez's. I can usuall fix a bad carb but I've got into a couple of EZ's carbs that just would not come around.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Homelite-S...169824?hash=item3b3cebffa0:g:dWMAAOSwTYZd0hSb

 

[JW51]

I had it running pretty decently but it was spitting back and got kind of goofy coming down from rev. Some here thought it would be worthwhile to check and replace the reed valves. That’s why it’s currently torn down and I did the test.

Forgot to mention, I applied some pressure to the carb inlet to check that while I was at it. Held really strong. Curious though, at what pressure should the needle actually “pop off?”

 

[Okie]

Since no one else chimed in about your question, this is just from my experience with those type Walbro HDC carbs. I think I seen so,ewhere awhile back where a guy posted about doing pressure/vac tests to some of the little orfice holes in the HDC carb. Maybe mention of a non-serviceable check valve in the carb body, but I'm not sure.

If you are asking about the gas inlet to the carb I just make sure they will pressure to 3 psi without leaking. some will start leaking little bit a 5 psi and operate ok. Also keep a heads up and compare closely the new kit needle to the needle being removed. Sometimes the new needle is not correct size or slightly different enough that it won't operate properly even though you have the correct kit number. Seems to be a China thing.

Normally they do not "pop off" or open up. Why? Because the engine pulses operate the fuel pump diaphragm which pulses (OPENS) the inlet needle to let gas into the carb and you are testing the carb inlet at static condition no pump pulses and the needle's itty bitty spring is holding the vitron tipped needle seated. If the inlet won't hold 3 psi it's been my experience the carb has tendency to flood the engine. Also seeing gas in the carb air box is a bad thing when trying to get one to run properly. Indicates leaking carb /flooding carb/etc.
But I do not know for sure what the exact specs are for those carbs. You can go to the Walbro site and look at the IPL data for that carb and some tips are mentioned for kitting and bench testing, I think that is where I seen some data, maybe

Try this link and look at HDC carb.

https://www.walbro.com/service-manuals/

 

[rarefish383]

Do you know what the grade of oil in the tank is? Maybe it's an old oil, too heavy? Just another possibility.

The fuel mix, Leons beliefs are that new oils are so much better that he uses a much thinner oil/gas mix in his Homelites & other older saws.
You'll have to check out his videos to see what fuel/oil ratio he uses.

I'm pretty sure Leon is running Amzoil Saber at 80:1. But, calling it thicker and thinner is not the difference. I tried to find the actual viscosity of Saber and couldn't. I've run Sthil Synthetic ever since it came out in all of my 2 stroke stuff, at 50 to one. I found the owners manual for one of our old Echo's from the late 70's and early 80's and it called for 50 to one. It' not how thick the oil is, it's what's in the oil. My old Homelites that call for 16 to one run fine on the Stihl 50 to one. Yes the newer oils are light years ahead of the old ones, but it's not the thick or thinness, it's the chemical make up.

 

[JW51]

Since no one else chimed in about your question, this is just from my experience with those type Walbro HDC carbs. I think I seen so,ewhere awhile back where a guy posted about doing pressure/vac tests to some of the little orfice holes in the HDC carb. Maybe mention of a non-serviceable check valve in the carb body, but I'm not sure.

If you are asking about the gas inlet to the carb I just make sure they will pressure to 3 psi without leaking. some will start leaking little bit a 5 psi and operate ok. Also keep a heads up and compare closely the new kit needle to the needle being removed. Sometimes the new needle is not correct size or slightly different enough that it won't operate properly even though you have the correct kit number. Seems to be a China thing.

Normally they do not "pop off" or open up. Why? Because the engine pulses operate the fuel pump diaphragm which pulses (OPENS) the inlet needle to let gas into the carb and you are testing the carb inlet at static condition no pump pulses and the needle's itty bitty spring is holding the vitron tipped needle seated. If the inlet won't hold 3 psi it's been my experience the carb has tendency to flood the engine. Also seeing gas in the carb air box is a bad thing when trying to get one to run properly. Indicates leaking carb /flooding carb/etc.
But I do not know for sure what the exact specs are for those carbs. You can go to the Walbro site and look at the IPL data for that carb and some tips are mentioned for kitting and bench testing, I think that is where I seen some data, maybe

Try this link and look at HDC carb.

https://www.walbro.com/service-manuals/

Thanks for a very thorough reply. Good stuff.

Carb didn’t leak down at 5 PSI. I think I just need to get it all put back together and see where we’re at. Hopefully the reeds help the spit back somewhat. It did that same thing (to varying degrees) with two different carbs. Saw ran much better and spit back was less on the 2nd carb.

 

[Okie]

If you still have a spit back take a look at the ignition. (timing little bit off due to points gap or a bad or weak condenser will cause some spit back) Replace with new points and condenser.
Do not try to re-gap old points, Re-gapping old points and or filing is in the same category as peeing into the wind.

Also after new points are installed drag a white piece of non-lint paper or a $1 bill through them when they are spring loaded closed to clean the contacts. Sometimes new points have a slight oil film and won't make good contact.

 

[JW51]

If you still have a spit back take a look at the ignition. (timing little bit off due to points gap or a bad or weak condenser will cause some spit back) Replace with new points and condenser.
Do not try to re-gap old points, Re-gapping old points and or filing is in the same category as peeing into the wind.

Also after new points are installed drag a white piece of non-lint paper or a $1 bill through them when they are spring loaded closed to clean the contacts. Sometimes new points have a slight oil film and won't make good contact.

I thought this was sensible advice. Ignition issues cause weird stuff. So I thought I’d just do it.

Can’t. Budge. Flywheel.

Tried everything I can think of without a proper pulling tool. Frustrated. Going to have to take a break for a bit.

 

[Okie]

I thought this was sensible advice. Ignition issues cause weird stuff. So I thought I’d just do it.

Can’t. Budge. Flywheel.

Tried everything I can think of without a proper pulling tool. Frustrated. Going to have to take a break for a bit.

Yes, some of them EZ flywheels can be tough to pull.

Go ahead and put the saw back together and do a test run with the flywheel as is. You may have to rig up a puller for the flywheel later if the engine is still not correct.

I do not use the whack the flywheel nut for the EZ's.

Just too give you some hints about pulling the testy ones.
I have some 3 inches long 10/32 STEEL machine screws (and several flat washers that I use with a heavy duty type parallel T bar puller or a heavy duty type steering wheel puller. Lots of spacer washers for the 3 inch long screws. I think maybe the 10/32 screws recoil clutch dog holes holes go completely through the flywheel so do not thread them all the way through the flywheel or they will damage stuff under the flywheel. Just loosen the flywheel nut and leave it in place so as to not bulge the end of the crankshaft. Tighten down the center puller bolt until it's good and snug and stop and peck on the puller bolt, then gently re-snug. Do not use a impact or get too rough or you will break the 10/32 puller STEEL screws. (you can get these at Lowes or a hardware store) Try to get american made steel screws not China made ones.
Every once in awhile I have to take a propane torch with a pencil tip flame and just warm the flywheel around it's center by the crank. Note that I said just get it warm to the touch, not hot. While it's warm and as it's cooling peck on the center puller bolt. The Aluminum flywheel expands at different rate as compared to the steel crank is what you are trying to take advantage of.
The heat cool method will eventaully bring it loose when it has a steady pull from the puller.
Patience and a correct gentle touch/feel is the key to not breaking stuff when doing this.

When going back together make sure the crank taper and the flywheel taper is free of lubricant. The taper is what keeps the flywheel from shearing the key. The key is just on there for timing the flywheel, not to hold the flywheel from spinning on the crank.
Two types of ignitions were used on those EZ's, a Wico and a Phelon. Wico is most common.

 

[JW51]

I tried all kinds of stuff before posting that. Wacking the nut. Wacking the crank end with a punch. Rigged up a really crude puller with a bunch of junk. Steel wasn’t thick enough and pulled a bolt from the starter dog threads. Luckily there were still threads deeper down and I could still re-attach the starter dogs.

I did bugger up the flywheel nut. It looks special, but does it really need to be? What pitch are the crank threads if I was to sub in a nylon lock nut?

I thought about the heat but was too chicken to try it. I’ll get it sooner or later. Appreciate the ideas.

 

[Okie]

I stumbled across some VERY GOOD Service info about Walbro carb's
How to pressure test, about replacing check valves, etc.

Check out the following links:

Some links to download and view Walbro Diaphragm carb Service data.
Some very good info about pressure testing, replacing check valves, etc.

Has info about HDC and WB carbs

A very good link to download Walbro small engine carb service manual for Walbro diaphragm carbs such as HDC, etc. Has how to pressure test and about check valves, etc.

At this link notice the Walbro Manual and info to select the free download manuals.
https://www.eccarburetors.com/Walbro-service-manual


Diaphragm carbs Service data download link

https://www.eccarburetors.com/assets/images/WalbroDiaphragmCarbSM.pdf


Walbro WB service manual data download link

https://www.eccarburetors.com/assets/images/WB-Manual.pdf

 

[JW51]

I stumbled across some VERY GOOD Service info about Walbro carb's
How to pressure test, about replacing check valves, etc.

Check out the following links:

Some links to download and view Walbro Diaphragm carb Service data.
Some very good info about pressure testing, replacing check valves, etc.

Has info about HDC and WB carbs

A very good link to download Walbro small engine carb service manual for Walbro diaphragm carbs such as HDC, etc. Has how to pressure test and about check valves, etc.

At this link notice the Walbro Manual and info to select the free download manuals.
https://www.eccarburetors.com/Walbro-service-manual


Diaphragm carbs Service data download link

https://www.eccarburetors.com/assets/images/WalbroDiaphragmCarbSM.pdf


Walbro WB service manual data download link

https://www.eccarburetors.com/assets/images/WB-Manual.pdf

Nice find! I had the little 3 page doc for the HDC but that 35 pager is really in depth.

I’m determined to put this saw back together this weekend. Tired of looking at it on my bench.

Another question:

Can the flywheel nut be replaced with a regular lock nut of the correct size/pitch? I messed mine up.

 

[Okie]

Good video: appears to be Leon rebuilding and working on a Homie EZ.
Appears maybe he took the carb apart and all the saw needed was a spark plug.
He makes some good comments about the tip test after the saw is running and mentions spit back due to reed valves not sealing. How to examine the main nozzle check valve. If it's not checking properly erratic low speed tuning issues are the result.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...8235369B47A7EAFADD3E8235369B47A7EAF&FORM=VIRE