Danger Dan
ArboristSite Guru
Put me in the less friction camp. Unless synthetic oil is combustible, any measurable difference in power should be due to less friction. :smoking:
Synthetic oil, more power?
- Thread starter B_Turner
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B_Turner
Addicted to ArboristSite
I am thinking that if is not my imagination, then it is something along andy77 s first post. Maybe running just a hair leaner and thus a little stronger due to my saws running a tad richer than max hp.
Given noone else has ever noticed it, then it can't be just the fact that it's synthetic.
It doesn't matter of course. I am hooked by the less smoke and stink of synthetic anyway, and that's what I'll run. If it makes me imagine my big saws are stronger yet, then good for me.
Given noone else has ever noticed it, then it can't be just the fact that it's synthetic.
It doesn't matter of course. I am hooked by the less smoke and stink of synthetic anyway, and that's what I'll run. If it makes me imagine my big saws are stronger yet, then good for me.
slabmaster
ArboristSite Guru
I agree.Less friction also means longer break-in.NOT GOOD.
You want an engine to break in as soon as possible.You want as much torque on the rings you can get.
windthrown
361 Junkie
Have to agree with that; less smoke from synthetic. I am running Mobile 2T synthetic now after running mainly Castrol 2T dyno. I dunno if there is less stink or not. Presonally, I like the smell of 2 stroke mixed gas burning. I was raised on that stuff running in outboard motors on the Willamette and Columbia Rivers, the San Juan Is. and the Puget Sound. Smells good! Yummy 2-stroke oil smell! Especially with old leaded gas... gott'a love it!
kurtty
ArboristSite Operative
a friend of mine did an experament in school on synthetic oil's VS regular. he put a shaft on a lathe and greased it up with regular 5w30 oil. he then put a clamp on it and let it spin at 1000RPM after 5 seconds it heated up and the clamp failed in a catastrphic manor.
he then did the same thing with 5w30 sythetic noticing that far less oil would stay on the shaft. he put the clamp on and spun it to 1000RPM after 5 minutes it wasn't even hot and he just shut it off. with far less oil the synthetic out performed the regular oil by a huge margin.
the experament was done in a controlled manor by my friend and his dad (his dad teaches machining at the local colledge so an expert was in attendance.)
after him telling me this i am a 100% synthetic convert.
he then did the same thing with 5w30 sythetic noticing that far less oil would stay on the shaft. he put the clamp on and spun it to 1000RPM after 5 minutes it wasn't even hot and he just shut it off. with far less oil the synthetic out performed the regular oil by a huge margin.
the experament was done in a controlled manor by my friend and his dad (his dad teaches machining at the local colledge so an expert was in attendance.)
after him telling me this i am a 100% synthetic convert.
Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
Whether because of reduced friction or some other effect those old wives, by the power of their tales, have been able to convince the automotive industry to adopt tested and stamped oils that appear to support the claim of enhanced gas mileage. If it is all a scam it has been a very clever trick by those old girls.
B Turner, I agree about the lower smoke being desireable. A two stroke saw has so many more variables in its operation it is not the easiest test bed!
I have no reason not to believe the tests in question. However the results can easily be attributed to properties of synthetic oils other than "slickness". Improved viscosity index, and a lower viscosity to begin with are just a couple.
Besides if "slickness" were desirable friction modifiers can and are added to dino motor oils. They are also added to synthetic motor oils as well.
Synthetic two stroke oil, like all two stroke oil is combustible.
Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well whatever the reason, if they can get the lubrication job done with a thinner oil and provide measurably better fuel mileage that seems like making more power with the same amount of gas. They didnt use the mileage rated synthetic to change the aerodynamics of the vehicles so it sounds like the engines must have been losing less energy to friction to produce the same output on less fuel.
Yes, but the key is to distinguish the root cause of the friction reduction. IE a reduction in viscosity and the like reducing friction or the base oil type.
Im betting its the former rather than the latter.
Im betting its the former rather than the latter.
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Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
The bottom line is the key issue; Less friction. Really I guess the bottom line is the cost benefit analysis. I dont think the mileage gains are fantastic and the syn stuff sure is pricey. I run the synthetic 5 / 40 in the VW diesels. TW has two of them and makes sure to use the recommended oil as there seems to be pretty convincing evidence that the one model has experienced cam shaft problems with other good oils that did not have the exact rating; not that that has anything to do with saws though. My saws are not real fussy and take what I feed them. On occasions when I am tempted to run them at a bit leaner fuel air mixtures I will up the oil a bit richer though.
ciscoguy01
Addicted to ArboristSite
Additives
Wellllll... My .02 is that not only could the synthetic make less friction, but oil mfg's could add in additives that would make the fuel burn cleaner/more efficiently/or do many other things... That could result in a change in hp/torque. Also, another factor is how rich the oil will make the saw run, leaner would cause your mind to think it was really running much faster, which it is, but would cause a loss of torque, which running richer will add... I think placebo is a factor here, but my above could cause some actual differences. Also, how new the gas is that's purchased, i.e. if it's right off the truck, a 93oct could be as high as 96, if it's 2 weeks old, could be at say 92, 4 octane can make a huge difference in the combustion chamber, especially with something as small as a 2-stroke... Thoughts???
Wellllll... My .02 is that not only could the synthetic make less friction, but oil mfg's could add in additives that would make the fuel burn cleaner/more efficiently/or do many other things... That could result in a change in hp/torque. Also, another factor is how rich the oil will make the saw run, leaner would cause your mind to think it was really running much faster, which it is, but would cause a loss of torque, which running richer will add... I think placebo is a factor here, but my above could cause some actual differences. Also, how new the gas is that's purchased, i.e. if it's right off the truck, a 93oct could be as high as 96, if it's 2 weeks old, could be at say 92, 4 octane can make a huge difference in the combustion chamber, especially with something as small as a 2-stroke... Thoughts???
I agree.Less friction also means longer break-in.NOT GOOD.
An engine will brake in just fine with synthetic oil, that was passed around when synthetics were first introduced to the market, every major engine manufacture recommends synthetic oil during brake in.
Basically both synthetic and base oils provide the same amount of lubrication until they start to brake down, a base oil will obviously brake down faster. Yes synthetic oil is the way to go, but there not slicker than dino oil, there just more stable.
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
Given that initial oil change after break in is at a very low interval, why pay the extra money for the synthetic when it will not be used long enough for any type of oil to break down?
ciscoguy01
Addicted to ArboristSite
Right on
That's what I've always wondered mule... Oil breaks down in like what, a few thousand years??? And everyone worries about it breaking down daily.... Silly I think eh? Isn't it the dirt etc that makes oil lose it's lubrication abilities???
:jester:
That's what I've always wondered mule... Oil breaks down in like what, a few thousand years??? And everyone worries about it breaking down daily.... Silly I think eh? Isn't it the dirt etc that makes oil lose it's lubrication abilities???
:jester:
Some new engines can only run on synthetic oil, from what I know it has to do with the engines close tolerances, run dino oil in them and you can turn the oil sludge.
Heat and friction.
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mountain_man
ArboristSite Operative
+1 these are the factors that come into play with oils. Lets take newer car oil for example... How many "dyno" oils do you see that are rated for upto 15000 miles? Granted I would have a hard time believing any oil will last that long in my engine however they have them. Synthetics for breakin are due to the way the molecules are bonded and the way they create a "smoother" surface on the face of metals. Basically... They don't wash away quite so fast.
Easily put? Best reason to use synthetic oil is that most engine wear is created at cold startup... why not give your baby the best? are your saws not worth an extra 2 bucks or so per jug of fuel? Will you use 87 gas when the manual says 89+? I personally will give my babies their best to insure long life. I have a suburban with over 270k miles and still doesn't smoke a bit. I've used synthetic since 0 miles. I will continue just for my own piece of mind. To each their own I suppose.
Fish
Tree Freak
What I do not like about using synthetic oil mix, is that the engine runs
too cool, and ice buildup in the exhaust port can damage the piston.......................................................................
too cool, and ice buildup in the exhaust port can damage the piston.......................................................................
RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
I have noticed on switching to Ultra or 2T, klotz R50, Or Royal Purple Synthetics a definite increase in RPM,,, in particular the idle is usually the first adjustment that I seem to notice first because the chain almost always begins to creep or run more!!!!
Thats' My story And I'm Sticking to it!!!!
Thats' My story And I'm Sticking to it!!!!
And oxidation, fuel dilution...for starters.
