Talk to me about Echo chainsaws

[Vibes]

My neighbor has a 440 Echo that he has cut tons of wood with through the years. I"ve run it and though it didn't imprees me, he claims he has never put a sparkplug in it since new. The guys a landscaper so he knows his machines. He swears buy them.


Alot of the smaller shops in this area are going with Echo lately. My Jonsered dealer says he sells the trimmers and hedge cutters far more than saws, and he gets the carryover service from the Home Depot buyers. I read on here that to stock Echo, the initial investment is lower than Husky or Stihl.

 

[Vibes]

I knew a truckdriver who drove beer from a STROHS plant back in the day. He said he made more money from those extra pallets than he had in his pension when he retired.

Many of the local taverns had Strohs specials when he was working.

 

[Stealth]

Just to throw in my 2 cents.
I've had an Echo CS-520 for just under a year now. Using it for general all purpose stuff. Thats what IMO a 50cc saw is good for...a littl ebit of everything.
Anyways, out of the box, its pretty doggy. Also seemed really peaky in terms of where it makes its power in the rpm band. Bogged a lot in wood that it shouldnt (thick oak, not particularly thick buckthorn). Overall, it didnt feel much better than my McCulloch 30cc saw. But once I removed the spark arrestor screen it really woke up. Richening the carb helped even more.
Out of the box, it did NOT keep up with my father-in-laws 20 yr old Stihl MS260. with the free tweaks, it most certainly did. Really tempted to drill/port the muffler, as I'm sure that will turn it into a screamer.

I think this speaks volumes about both saws actually.
Between the CS-520 and MS-260, flip a coin. Both are great.

Its a shame that Echo has to de-tune its saws in order to achieve the EPA certs it strives for, resulting in an initially disappointing experience unfairly.

I have a local dealer up the street from me that sells both Echo and Stihl products (among others (Honda Toro etc). It always feels like they push Echo a little harder. I'm not sure if its because they truly believe in their products, or if perhaps Echo gives them better margins? They seem pretty customer service oriented (you can spend hours in there talking with them), so I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

At any rate, I'm awaiting a used CS-670 I picked up on ebay, that I plan to use for some milling. I think I'll get to tweaking it right away.


EDIT: MS260 = 026. Sorry forgot the previous naming convention.

 

[Stealth]

I'll also mention that although I'm carrying an 18" bar with it and its fine, I think the CS-520 would run best with a 16" bar.

Lets face it, with a general purpose saw like this, chances are you're going to more frequently appreciate the extra power, not additional bar length.

I'm seeing a trend in entry-level /consumer saws being sold with bigger bars lately (40 cc poulans with 20" bars for example). IMO, trying to mislead the novice customer into thinkign they're buying more saw than they are. Concerning.

 

[Cliff R]

I'm sure the muffler on the CS-520 is as restrictive as the one on my CS-510. They do this for emission reasons, to provide some extra burn time for cleaner exhaust.

Inside the CS-510 muffler there was a small pipe running clear across from the exit to the other side, with a partially blocked opening, very restrictive. I removed the tube and opened up the exit hole slightly, BIG wake up call for that saw, they have excellent power for the cc's and easily manage an 18" .325" chain/bar set-up.....Cliff

 

[Stealth]

I'm sure the muffler on the CS-520 is as restrictive as the one on my CS-510. They do this for emission reasons, to provide some extra burn time for cleaner exhaust.

Inside the CS-510 muffler there was a small pipe running clear across from the exit to the other side, with a partially blocked opening, very restrictive. I removed the tube and opened up the exit hole slightly, BIG wake up call for that saw, they have excellent power for the cc's and easily manage an 18" .325" chain/bar set-up.....Cliff

Thanks Cliff. Ya as I said, mine runs fine with the 18'. Although I suspect most ppl dont really need 18" with a saw like this, and would probably get more enjoyment from a 16".

Tempted to hack the muffler as you describe. I think I'll just see what the going rate is on a new muffler, just in case, as I've still got 4 yrs of warranty to consider, so Iif anything went wrong I'd put on a new muffler.

 

[CharlieG]

My little top handle Echo is still point on after 5 years of use, with basic maintenance and good fuel. Not abused and starts up after 1 or 2 pulls false start, brmmmm brrmmmmm .

 

[MathuisMaximus]

There have been many comments here about echos being underpowered. I am a firm believer if you take any given engine size and run less horsepower and torque than what the engine could be making durability will go up. Thats why the old big bore, long stroke, low compression, and low RPM engines are so bulletproof. Those engines like to be run hard. The harder you run them the better they run IMO. Our old farmalls can be lugged down from full throttle, manifold and muffler glowing, and doesn't hurt em a bit. I think large displacement, low RPM and low compression chainsaws are the most durable. Thats why I think echos are more durable, because they're running less power through them. Don't take my views on echos too seriously as I have not run one or owned own, just voicing my opinion.

 

[pgg]

Echo owners harp on about 'reliability' as if it's some special feature that only echos possess. It's a whole crock of tripe, let anyone name an 'unreliable' chainsaw. Forget the Chinese and plastic and nasty toy-type junk you can pick up from any back-alley nic-nac shop, ALL chainsaws are reliable, is just how chainsaws are, hyping up Echos and praising them as 'reliable' is the only thing an Echo owner can do, because there's nothing about Echo chainsaws that is anything but slow, sluggish, bland and boring and lacking genuine performance/bite/spark and just all-round get-up-and-go..

Sure, Echos are fine as homeowner/backyard/casual/weekend chainsaws, what chainsaw isn't? The worst thing about the Echo brand is their sleazy dishonest marketing ploy of hyping up their saws as something they're not. For decades echo have been conning newbie chainsaw owners into believing the Echos are the equal and compete with the top grade saws out there, but at half the price. Echo dealerships are the conniving used-car-salesmen of the chainsaw world who don't bat an eyelid when shoveling all the garbage and super-duper power cyclone vortex tornado TM 5-year warranty nonsense down ya throat. Buyer beware of all the B.S.

 

[Cliff R]

pgg, you are certainly entitled to your "opinion" and I respect it.

When you get time, would you mind telling me how many Echo chain saws you have owned personally, model numbers, and the procedure(s) that you used to determine their power output compared to other brands in the same cc range?

Here's my opinion, FWIW, we see this sort of crap on occassion, because Echo did have an entire line-up of pathetically "anemic", slow, underpowered saws for decades. Even though they were relatively well built and reliable, they just weren't on par in the cut to most of the offerings from the larger manufacturer's.

When they started using upright P/C's, some were "home-runs" and others were just OK.

I believe they are continuing to go after that market with new offerings.

If you read my comments in the first response, I have owned a LOT of these saws, and provided real/accurate and most importantly UP TO DATE information on them.

A CS-510 is a strong 50cc saw, on par with anything in the market from anyone in that range. I set mine just under 14,000rpm's and it cuts as well as any Stihl or Husqvarna closed port model I've ever ran.

The two CS-670's I owned, were NOT on part with either of my Husqvarna saws in that size range. The CS-6700 is even worse. They do not enjoy high rpms, or like to stay at high rpm's in the cut even when you attempt to lean them out. They do "pull" quite well in the mid-range, and have acceptable power, but not impressive power.

The big CS-800 was also a disappointment for me, pretty good "grunt" saw, but seriously lacking in top end power and performance compared to a Husqvarna Professional saw in that class.

Same deal with the CS-370/400's, very respectable for the cc's, but not overly fast in in chain speed or cutting power.

The CS-440 I owned was a tad better than the 370/400's, but still pretty "weak" for the cc's, at least when compared pound for pound with other saws I've ran in that size range.

I have heard that the Echo 600P and the new CS-680 are much better than previous offerings. It's rumor control at this point for me, as I haven't had the opportunity to run any of them yet.

One must also keep in mind when I put up this information, that I'm pretty much a die hard Husqvarna fan, and have some excellent offerings from them in my line-up. It's not easy for other saws I bring in here to impress me much, as I already run some of the best saws ever produced....once again, IMHO.

I still don't run around with a "closed mind" when it comes to other brands, just because my wifes/cousins/daughters/ex-brother in laws/next door neighbor bought an Echo top handle and smoked the P/C because he was to stupid and/or lazy to pull the limiter caps off and add some fuel to it!.....FWIW....Cliff

 

[mountainlake]

Cliff I don't see a CS400 on your list, cuts quite a bit faster than the CS370. Mine is faster than both my CS440 and open port Husky Rancher 55. Turned into my favorite saw around the mill and limbing. Starts on the first pull without choking even after siiting 1/2 hour. Steve

 

[Bob Wright]

Echo dealerships are the conniving used-car-salesmen of the chainsaw world who don't bat an eyelid when shoveling all the garbage and super-duper power cyclone vortex tornado TM 5-year warranty nonsense down ya throat. Buyer beware of all the B.S.

Thats funny i was a salesman for 8 years and never used tactics like that. I showed the saws, let the customer run it in real wood and if they bought fine if not that was fine too...Bob

 

[mountainlake]

Echo owners harp on about 'reliability' as if it's some special feature that only echos possess. It's a whole crock of tripe, let anyone name an 'unreliable' chainsaw. Forget the Chinese and plastic and nasty toy-type junk you can pick up from any back-alley nic-nac shop, ALL chainsaws are reliable, is just how chainsaws are, hyping up Echos and praising them as 'reliable' is the only thing an Echo owner can do, because there's nothing about Echo chainsaws that is anything but slow, sluggish, bland and boring and lacking genuine performance/bite/spark and just all-round get-up-and-go..

Sure, Echos are fine as homeowner/backyard/casual/weekend chainsaws, what chainsaw isn't? The worst thing about the Echo brand is their sleazy dishonest marketing ploy of hyping up their saws as something they're not. For decades echo have been conning newbie chainsaw owners into believing the Echos are the equal and compete with the top grade saws out there, but at half the price. Echo dealerships are the conniving used-car-salesmen of the chainsaw world who don't bat an eyelid when shoveling all the garbage and super-duper power cyclone vortex tornado TM 5-year warranty nonsense down ya throat. Buyer beware of all the B.S.

I bet that really hurt when you watched that vid of a 45cc Echo cutting faster than a 56cc 3.8hp Stihl. ouch. Steve

 

[Cliff R]

"Cliff I don't see a CS400 on your list, cuts quite a bit faster than the CS370. Mine is faster than both my CS440 and open port Husky Rancher 55. Turned into my favorite saw around the mill and limbing. Starts on the first pull without choking even after siiting 1/2 hour."

I had one, sold it to my best friend and I still use it on occassion as we cut together once in a while.

I put the CS-400 stock against the muffler modded CS-370 and the CS-370 was about 7 seconds faster making 3 full cuts in a 12" Cherry log.

I didn't fiddle with 400 or muffler mod it, and it was right out of the box as well, so it may be a tad faster now that it's got some time in?

I can tell you this for certain, the CS-370's and the 400 aren't anywhere close to any of my Husqvarna 55's, even the open port models.....Cliff

 

[mountainlake]

Cut times on my CS400 saws 2 of them went from 15 seconds down to 8 or 9 seconds with a muff mod and tuning, huge improvement. My open port Husky 55 is quite a ways behind my muff modded 520 and a little way ahead of my CS440. In timed cuts my CS400 was about 1 second faster than my Husky 55 in a 10 second cut and about 2 seconds faster than my CS440. Hard to believe that little 40cc cuts like that but it does, I guess that narrow kerf chain really helps. Steve

 

[Cliff R]

I did remover the limiter caps and "tune" the CS-400, standard opps for all Echo saws we get in here. Without a muffler mod it was considerably slower than my well tuned/muffler modded CS-370, so it really helps to open them up some.

My CS-510, pound for pound is the most impressive Echo I've owned. It was pretty good before I muffler modded it, and served us well for about 5 years. One day just for kicks I removed the muffler and opened it up. There was a sleeping giant hiding in that case. It's very impressive, runs right with my closed port 55, with a broader power curve, and more "grunt" when you really start pushing it.

The little muffler modded CS-360T is also a fast little saw, but I absolutely HATE the rev limiting module, it would be much better with an unlimited coil on it.

I have plans to muffler mod the CS-400 this Winter, I'll let you know if helps it out, and by how much?.....Cliff

 

[MN Ripper]

I've slowly grown a collection of the newer era of Echo's over the past couple years myself and they've cut a lot of timber for me without any issues. I've ran and owned saws from various manufactures since I started cutting with my father as a teenager. I'm not gonna feed a line and say Echo is the tip-top of the pyramid but they deserve better than what most bashers here say. I find their pricing to be competitive and same with the parts. I bought a factory Echo piston kit this past winter for my CS-4400 which also included a new needle bearing for the wrist pin for only $15 more than I paid for a aftermarket Meteor one for my 036 pro with no wrist pin bearing. The machining & castings are quality work on the Echo's I own. To each there own.

 

[Austin1]

All the Echo saws I've seen in the shop seem to be made pretty good. All the ones I've run seem to lack alittle power CC for CC compared to other top brands but is power everything? I've seen a bunch of old Echo's still running quite well after many years of use. Longivity and reliabilty should be included when judging a product, not power alone. Biggest problem with Echo is Home Depot. For every Echo dealer,and they are far and few in between, there are a 100 Home Depots selling Echo and not backing them up with parts and service. Sadly without Home Depot Echo would probably be out of business, with Home Depot their name gets alittle tarnished from lack of service and parts. The Echo product itself from all the ones I've seen seem to be made quite well.

Yep like the old Datsun not too powerful but they get you to where you want to go and always starts lol. I have a bud who cut's only a cord a year he has a cs 440 never changed fuel leaves it in the tank from November to November never had a problem with it.I am really amazed the Japs have not made some real nasty fast saws they could do it. heck some of the new datsuns are turning 300hp okay Nissan's not to mention the Honda's and Toyota's but will the newer saw's run amuck and cut the whole forest down?

 

[Stealth]

The worst thing about the Echo brand is their sleazy dishonest marketing ploy of hyping up their saws as something they're not. For decades echo have been conning newbie chainsaw owners into believing the Echos are the equal and compete with the top grade saws out there, but at half the price. Echo dealerships are the conniving used-car-salesmen of the chainsaw world who don't bat an eyelid when shoveling all the garbage and super-duper power cyclone vortex tornado TM 5-year warranty nonsense down ya throat. Buyer beware of all the B.S.

I havent really found that to be the case here at my local Canadian dealer. They carry both Stihl and Echo and pricing here is within a few dollars of each other and they always have the same promotions (hat, case, oil, spare chain). Basically when you talk to the dealer here, he'll tell you to flip a coin between the Echo or Stihl, but if you press him, he'll fall back on the longer Echo warranty and that their experience is that Echo parts are sometimes cheaper and easier for him to get.

The only thing that seems consistent from my reading on the web is that quality control and performance among ALL the saw companies is really spotty and inconsistent, leading to legions of fanboys and detractors of all the brands.

 

[clhughart]

I think I may have made a mistake. I was wanting a 20" chain saw for when I needed a "larger" saw then my smaller saws (homelite and poulan) and my old 20" clinton chain saw was just too heavy and old. I have owned an Echo weedeater for over 30 years so I thought maybe I'd like one of the saws. Bought a 500EVL off of ebay that ended up costing me about $150. Started when I got it, shut it off after 30 seconds to see if chain was oiling, and hasn't run since. No fire. Unplugged switch, replaced plug... nothing. Seems these saws have a reputation for bad coils and ignition modules (mine does have electronic ignitiion), and they are no longer available. Seller won't take it back. Any ideas?