The "Game of Logging" training is awsome...

[smokechase II]

The trees don't take the course

Well said.

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"Safety was always the primary point......"
Also well said.
Consensus of opinion by virtually everyone I have ever heard that took the class was just that.
Any program that emphasizes PPE and particular cutting methods to avoid danger is a great idea.

===========

I wouldn't suggest that there is a perfect program that teaches everyone all they'll ever need in a world as complex as falling.

We all have to understand that:
1) There are trees that no one can fall safely.
2) There are trees that each one of us cannot fall safely, but that others can.
(Look, if there are skills and knowledge that you have picked up in your AO, just respect that in a physical world with different woods and conditions there are other cutters that have skills and knowledge in their Area of Operations that you do not.)
3) At points in our work day, work settings or our lives there are trees that we could formerly drop safely but its time to step away just now.

============

The saying no to dead trees that Polycop got on level I may be just from those instructors or intended for an introductory group.
That's not a bad thing.

 

[logbutcher]

I went through GOL levels I,II,III in 1994. Soren Eriksson was the instructor. The bias of the GOL method is definately toward smaller trees(30"dbh and less). The positive to that is the fact that most people cut smaller trees. I would say that as the tree to be cut gets over 32", then the GOL/open face technique is less applicable. Safety was always the primary point, in every action. Hazard awarness, developing a falling plan, planning an escape, following the plan, etc. A fair amount of time was given to making the falling plan so that you placed youself in the least amount of danger, or minimized the time at the stump. Of course it has been 15 years since I took the course, so I don't know if the teaching has changed much, but I do know that training like this is better than no training at all. I understand that experienced fallers who deal with big wood or danger trees every day will look at the training with distrust, but the methods I learned from it helped me to make a lot of money when I owned my tree service, and made it so I could do many removals without ever setting a rope in the tree. When I went to Level I the only knowledge I had was what I had tought myself. After leaving Level III my falling, limbing, and bucking skills were significantly better ( I won the "competition" at all three levels). IMHO it is money and time well spent.

Our GOL 1-2-3 Levels gave me ways of thinking about the fall beforehand, making the work more efficient and safe. I never found any absolutes in techniques except safety. Boring or plunge cuts are just one tool among many. Oh yes, using wedges more than I was used to.
We had a real mix of pros, arborists, landowners, hacks. The "competition" was worth the time and humbling. Solidly recommended.
The saws then here in the Maine GOL were all mid range Husky pro saws like 372XP, brand new.

 

[Burvol]

Well said.

==========

"Safety was always the primary point......"
Also well said.
Consensus of opinion by virtually everyone I have ever heard that took the class was just that.
Any program that emphasizes PPE and particular cutting methods to avoid danger is a great idea.

===========

I wouldn't suggest that there is a perfect program that teaches everyone all they'll ever need in a world as complex as falling.

We all have to understand that:
1) There are trees that no one can fall safely.
2) There are trees that each one of us cannot fall safely, but that others can.
(Look, if there are skills and knowledge that you have picked up in your AO, just respect that in a physical world with different woods and conditions there are other cutters that have skills and knowledge in their Area of Operations that you do not.)
3) At points in our work day, work settings or our lives there are trees that we could formerly drop safely but its time to step away just now.

============

The saying no to dead trees that Polycop got on level I may be just from those instructors or intended for an introductory group.
That's not a bad thing.

Seems like some basic geomitry and physics would be good to go with the theory taught. There is a lot of understanding this concept in tree terms while learning the tree stuff; such applications can show a person there are more or less "Guidlines" and "Major Guidelines" vs. "Just Rules" to what wood does.

 

[smokechase II]

Reply to John

I have had a few conversations here on AS and also with Open Face Forest Service cutters where they are not locked into everything plunge etc.

None of the pros I've been around in Western States use it. (On a faller by faller basis they plunge for barber chair avoidance etc. That has been around since at least Dent put out his book in the early 70's. So there are techniques used that while not full GOL they certainly do mimic.)

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While there is a portion of the GOL world, (being closer to Soren E. seems to be a key), that is lock step it seems maybe half of the open face troops are more realistic.

============

The Soren event that I have heard recounted, (not read), is that he showed up in the Spokane Wash area with an I've got something to show you boys attitude.

Conversely, I would not want any of the pro Humboldt cutters show up in Scandinavia with an I've got something to show you boy’s attitude.

You might want to show up for work.
Respect local knowledge.
After six months or more suggest a couple cuts in particular scenarios where they have the most chance of success.
Maybe add to that.

 

[smokechase II]

Physics

"Seems like some basic geomitry and physics would be good to go with the theory taught."

Exactly:

Some of the why to open face is its advantages.

Not to be forgotten is the compromises it makes. Short cuts can become disadvantages.

When you get to bigger trees, same physics - just more of 'em - if you will, then compromises like shallow faces that don't optimally place the fulcrum for leverage are exposed.

===========

When you count on the hinge holding after the fall is complete and it doesn't, then that stump shot idea looks pretty good. If its never been a problem for you, thank the Lord for flat land.

==========

Now some level of compromise exists in every falling methodology that I'm aware of. The trick for my old 57 year old brain is to ask overall what short cuts are not all that bright any more.

 

[Tzed250]

I would say that the two biggest reasons the OF falling technique does not apply to work in the PNW or elsewhere with similiar conditions are the steep ground and the need to work the tree from two sides because of the size. Plenty of real steep ground here in WV, but usually the tree size lets you do all the work from one side. The Humboldt also fits in with harvesting in steep ground as there is little wood waste on the log, as well having the face wood fall out of the cut easily. I think most of us agree that it is all about the situation. Fill your mental toolbox with as many tools as you can, then pull out the right ones for the job. I know that the GOL techniques work very well for me, but I dont cut 4ft. softwoods.

 

[clearance]

I fall mostly under 3' softwoods. I use a Humbolt pretty well all the time. In fact, all the time. When I have bad leaner, I use a Humbolt with methods to avoid it chairing in my backcut.

I have described this bore cut for falling to old fallers, they look at me like I have three heads. But whatever, each to his own, just seems like a waste of time and effort to me. I bore cut sometimes when I buck though, so the log doesn't slab.

 

[litefoot]

One big thing I learned was to leave dead trees standing and not mess with them (no matter how tempting) until they fall to the ground on their own.

What? That's all I cut. Dead-standing beetle-kill lodgepole or Pondersoa pine. I always rap on it with the backside of an ax to make sure it's not rotten. Usually better wood than the blowdowns.

 

[GASoline71]

The name is an oxymoron... "Game of Logging"...

Loggin' ain't no game...

It should be renamed the "Introduction to the overuse of the borecut and breakin' out the protractors game"...

Sorry... but I'm not a big fan of it either... That's what happens when overengineers get their hands on stuff...

Gary

 

[Gologit]

The name is an oxymoron... "Game of Logging"...

Loggin' ain't no game...

It should be renamed the "Introduction to the overuse of the borecut and breakin' out the protractors game"...

Sorry... but I'm not a big fan of it either... That's what happens when overengineers get their hands on stuff...

Gary

LOL...Gotta disagree...of course it's a game. If you win you get to get up the next morning and play it again.

If you lose...well, somebody else gets up in the morning.

I'm up...think I'll go play awhile.

 

[Tzed250]

The name is an oxymoron... "Game of Logging"...

Loggin' ain't no game...

It should be renamed the "Introduction to the overuse of the borecut and breakin' out the protractors game"...

Sorry... but I'm not a big fan of it either... That's what happens when overengineers get their hands on stuff...

Gary

Gary, it was named the Game of Logging because of the training style used in the school. Competitive Response Training. Students compete with each other to earn points during each section. The one with the most points at the end of the day claims an award. Boots, tools, etc. It makes the students pay more attention if they know something is on the line. The training has been proven to work as most states in this area of the country require it to become a certified logger. The bottom line is, if you don't like it, don't use it. But don't kick it to the curb just because you assume it is no good. It's not overengineering. It is an expansion of ones toolbox to deal with dangers of timber harvesting.

 

[woodguy105]

I have described this bore cut for falling to old fallers, they look at me like I have three heads. But whatever, each to his own, just seems like a waste of time and effort to me. I bore cut sometimes when I buck though, so the log doesn't slab.

If the tree cutter in NE ct. used the GOL method to cut the tree (that fell the opposite way and hit a power line cutting off power to 5,000 ct. residents) he could have waited for the wind to stop blowing and then finished by cutting the trigger wood...thus preventing a huge problem. The link is in the wood burners forum from a couple of days ago title woops! I'll try to dig it up.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=85847

 

[smokechase II]

Plunge back-cut advantages and disadvantages

"If the tree cutter in NE ct. used the GOL method to cut the tree (that fell the opposite way and hit a power line cutting off power to 5,000 ct. residents) he could have waited for the wind to stop blowing and then finished by cutting the trigger wood..."

That is a nice advantage to the plunge back-cut. Precise release timing.

A quick qualification here. If you're hanging around at the stump waiting for the wind to change so you can finish cutting. Have those two extra escape routes cleared out and your life insurance up to date. Maybe you even replace your hard hat every three years like the manufacturer says.

Typically in this scenario the faller hanging around at the stump, assuming good holding wood and appropriate hinge, is better off driving wedges that have been established to complete the fall as the wind allows. Reasons why this is usually better; quicker escapes and you can hear things that were not audible with your saw running.
{It is also nice to have your saw setting over behind a tree where it doesn't present any issues, like getting the bar pinched when the wind can change the physics above you.}

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In either case, part of the strategy also is to keep the tree from rocking too much, with either a strap or wedges, and please have plenty of holding wood.

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More caveats with both thoughts:

There could also be an issue with judgment and when to cut the strap. Eventually someone is going to cut the strap too early or get surprised by a wind gust. The wedge strategy here can also have a similar problem if the person driving does not pay attention to the sway of the tree from either the wind or the wedging. If the driver is pounding away on the return stroke of the tree that puts additional stress on the hinge. (It also is hard on equipment and people to drive wedges when there is increased resistance.)

As always when driving wedges(s) in a more difficult tree, be aware of the tops movement as a guide to when to pound. This issue is magnified in taller timber.

 

[smokechase II]

Told you that story to tell you this one:

Since woodguy105 didn't mention wedges I thought I would.

Often the best solution can be plunge/leave strap + wedging.

This is problematic with smaller diameters but may be worthwhile 12" dbh and larger.

===============

I would caution on just depending on a strap for release control in the wind.

Eventually .................

 

[Burvol]

When the wind is blowing like that, it's usually time to get out. If you have to beat wedges into the wind, it's not gonna last long. I use the wind when I can, then go fishing when I can't. I'll move to the next strip if my lead and the wind don't jive where I'm at. It's flat ass ridiculous to pound trees into the wind. Many times the wind changes and you have to eventually do it. Cutting timber in the Gorge area of the Cascades is a lot different than other places. If a little wind breaks you down, then this might not be the place for you to cut. Yes, you will get blown out a few times a year or more here, but for the most part wind is a fact of life here.

 

[Tzed250]

Some great posts. If you decide to cut in the wind you'd better know your species, and what the hingewood and strap will take. Know your limits, and the limits of the chosen technique.

 

[Burvol]

The strap cut with wedges seems a little contradictory. Strap= slowing wood down, wedge= speeding wood up. Yes, the strap can be used for precise release times, but for the most part I was taught that the strap is not used with wedges, it's a contradiction to what the technique is really for. Just my $0.02. If you must, and I stress must throw a tree into some wind, it can be better to back it up partially first, start a few wedges, face it, then continue backing it up.

 

[Taxmantoo]

If the tree cutter in NE ct. used the GOL method to cut the tree (that fell the opposite way and hit a power line cutting off power to 5,000 ct. residents) he could have waited for the wind to stop blowing and then finished by cutting the trigger wood..

I thought he lost that tree after he made the face cut, before starting the back cut. If so, either he made the face too deep or he never stood a chance without using a winch.

 

[woodguy105]

Smokechase> thanks for bringing up the wedges. They definitely add to the stability of the tree prior to the final cut. As well, under the right conditions, wedging just one side can help influence the fall in the desired direction.

Woodguy~

Quote "I thought he lost that tree after he made the face cut, before starting the back cut. If so, either he made the face too deep or he never stood a chance without using a winch"

If he didn't make a back cut before she went over I'd have to agree that he had way too much meat out with the face cut or he could've been dealing with a rotten or hollow tree??

 

[Burvol]

Too many people that are not qualified to cut are doing so, and reading into techniqes that even some of the best, seasoned, three decade cutters don't bother even using. I have read more stuff on here that is over-kill, not-useful, impractical, or just plain stupid. Not this thread persay, I'm just stating it. Some stuff on here is not really good reading material for guys trying to learn the basics.