It didn't have any egr stuff and the egr cooler shoved under there.
The Stihl MS661 C-M recall
- Thread starter windthrown
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It didn't have any egr stuff and the egr cooler shoved under there.
CR500
Diesel, Snowmobile, & Chainsaw Technician
Very True... neither did the B series engines that were in the first and second gen Dodges. The LB7 Duramax also was not being chocked back.
KingDavey
ArboristSite Operative
It sound like the problems with the 661 may be mechanical, not related to M-Tronic. The 261 C-M and 441 C-M saws are getting rave reviews, and the few people with 362 C-Ms out there (including me) seem to love them also. My little 362 C-M runs much stronger than it should, and no problems thus far.
Knobby57
Peeing outdoors
Yes you can find less inexpensive injectors , but I know the factory ones work. I hate doing the same job twice . And the cp is a high pressure pump. It's not a injection pump that is a mechanical timed pump that manually forces fuel at high pressure built up by said injector pump , through injectors that are basically a complicated garden hose nozzle . But on a whole , this is one of the best fuel systems ever put on a diesel so far . And that sounds like a bad azz truck mine is a beater work truck that only gets started when it's pulling aiming or pushing somethingThe CP3 is driven off a gear above the camshaft. It feeds the rail with one line. I was buying injectors for $300 a pop in 2009. Never bought lines. I've had 7 of the common rails and run them up to 600 hp daily drivers. I've done over $100k in mods to my trucks and bought a few CPs and injectors
Knobby57
Peeing outdoors
Partial information is a form of ignorance .
Bonjour I'm a French model .
I just bought a pile of cat stock a few months ago and I researched it for over a month . if you dig deeper you will find the majority of those (cat) motors are made by Navastar/international with some cat fuel parts. Hmm maybe it's a cat ford ( I won't tell you what country they are made in ) .i do believe they still offer one of 2 but are scaling back . and with very little digging you can find all sorts of info on how they where having issues with Meeting emissions and urea. Mid size trucks in the last few years have gotten very tite on emissions in the last few years making it very hard to get a mid size truck with a cat now . Used to be able to get f700 or k6500 with a cat option .but even large trucks and equipment or even ship engines have to meet some level of emissions now
Rockjock
Addicted to ArboristSite
The odd thing I am finding in all this is the dealers I know in Germany not only have the 661 in stock but they are selling it it quite well. Asking a bloke I know point blank he said " das ist unmöglich, 40 Jahre mit stihl so würde ich wissen " that's impossible 40 years with Stihl so I should know. he went on to say if it were so he would not have any for sale nor could he get more. So i am sure there is more to this than meets the eyes.
CR500
Diesel, Snowmobile, & Chainsaw Technician
COrrection their was a 7.3 was made to burn "clean" California models had different injectors and different wiring harness
windthrown
361 Junkie
Well, many people here in the US have been with Stihl a long time and they know little about the 661 issues. Also this is the opposite of what is being posted on various arbor sites in Germany as well as the UK. My only guess is that he returned saws from the US and UK are being tested/inspected and sold locally in Germany? But that still contradicts what arborists are saying in Germany, that they cannot buy any 661s and were told they would not be available until Q2...
Rockjock
Addicted to ArboristSite
I can't comment on the US or Canadian dealers but it is odd that the dealer I know is not in the loop. He is pretty high up there. Also his saws are new in a box because he joked about how easy it would be for me to ship them. I did call up a family friend that has a smallish dealership and he said he did not have any but could order me one if I wanted. So I am curious what area they are in? Also a bloke in Poland was commenting on how much he loved his. I have a feeling this recall may have been just for a limited production run. Hopefully more info will come to light on exactly what the issue is. Some say carb others have said it was a cylinder issue even the electronics. But no definitive answer
Recently noticed that they have replaced the MS660 on the Belgium website with the 661. This happened after the recall started, just a couple of days ago. The 660 is no longer in the list. Don't know if any of the 2 is available, I'll check with my dealer next week.
firebrick43
Life is all about big saws
Actually you have it backwards. The basic block assembly is made by cat and the fuel/emission system by navistar. Same goes for the large max force engine. Allows them to share the same certification and therefore millions. Remember however that cat and navistar have had a long relationship. The cat huei on the 3126/c7 and the 7.3 fuel system were co developed and operated the same.
The real reason cat got out of the truck market is that freight liner/ meceades/Detroit decided that why let cat put motors in our trucks. The Volvo/Mack joined and said the same thing. Paccar which is peterbuilt/kW started develop their own engine and in the interim used only cummins, paccar was cat biggest on road customer. So only navistar was left and they never did a large 12-15l engine so cat sells them a short block and they put the fuel systems on them. Neither one had market share alone to make the multi million dollar EPA certification alone. The new cat truck is made by navistar to cats design and uses cat transmission(auto) and cat electronics.
They are only sold for vocational use which is not a strong market segment for navistar.
windthrown
361 Junkie
They all come in boxes to dealers here, through distributors. As for shipping, they are not supposed to do that, and Stihl frowns on people shipping new saws anywhere.
There have been several 'reports' that the 661s were bad that were shipped someplace else: in Germany they say it was the batch that went to the UK, in the UK they say its the batch that they sent to the US. In the US they say it was the saws in the EU, etc. However, there have been bad 661 saws reported in all of those locations (as well as people saying that their 661s are running fine). There have also been reports that there are still some 661s on shelves at several dealers in North America and in the UK, as well as in Germany. Feedback is spotty and it is inconsistent. In many cases dealers are unaware of what is happening. In the US markets, dealers are assigned to regional distributors and order and communicate through those distributors, and they generally do not have direct lines to the company (in VA or in Germany).
From what several dealers have told me here is that all the saws that were shipped to US distributors that were not yet shipped to dealers were shipped back to Germany. That is the same as what I have read on the UK arbor forums. The saws that were shipped to stores were left up to the dealerships as to their returning them or not. Stihl claims this is not a recall, but they have rounded up a lot of 661 saws from the US, the UK and Germany. In Germany the guys that had problems with the 661s were given loaner 660s, and not replacement 661s. Meanwhile here in the states, dealers are also telling customers that they are cranking up production on 660s again and that the 661 will not be available until mid year (at the earliest). The 661s were not available here in the western US before the 'recall' and they are not going to be available here until the issues are resolved (whatever they are). If it were a bad batch issue, they would just crank out more 661s and ship them. However, they are producing 660s instead, so that tells you that there is a serious problem with the early model 661s.
Stihl obviously wants to keep a tight lid on this issue, as it is their new big model saw. Husky is having a field day in the UK right now, as people that ordered 661s there never got them, or they got them and they failed on them. The 661s were rounded up and shipped back to Germany and the 660s were in tight supply there and so for the time being they have not been able to get 90cc Stihl saws. And meanwhile, as you say, the 661 is hitting Stihl web sites in the UK and the EU. But the word on the street is that they cannot be bought in the UK. So the web site information is misleading.
windthrown
361 Junkie
Here is a post in the UK on an arbor site about what they are being told by dealers in the UK (same thing I was told here in the west US):
I went into our local dealer yesterday looking for a new biggish saw and was told that the 661 had been withdrawn from sale and that will be replaced for the time being with the 660. The dealer wasn't told why it was being withdrawn, simply that they had to send back their held stock of 661s and that a fresh batch of 660s would be made available at some point.
Here is a post from a guy that got a bad 661 in the UK:
My power head has been sent off to Germany, and I'm now hopefully awaiting my 660 replacement.
Reason for replacement is performance related, just didn't cut it compared to the 660.
I went into our local dealer yesterday looking for a new biggish saw and was told that the 661 had been withdrawn from sale and that will be replaced for the time being with the 660. The dealer wasn't told why it was being withdrawn, simply that they had to send back their held stock of 661s and that a fresh batch of 660s would be made available at some point.
Here is a post from a guy that got a bad 661 in the UK:
My power head has been sent off to Germany, and I'm now hopefully awaiting my 660 replacement.
Reason for replacement is performance related, just didn't cut it compared to the 660.
The website is misleading but I get why they would put the 661 online. The catalogs have the 661 so it's hard to keep it off the websites. But I don't get why there isn't any message or tag linked to the 661 on their websites, like, temporarily not available.
I don't get the irregularity on the websites.
US, Canada, Poland, Austria, Denmark,...: 660
Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany, Italy: 661
France, UK,...: 660 & 661
Germany is a pretty big market and I would think they sell pretty many 660/661 there in a month. So if the 661 isn't available, I would figure they would show the 660 on the website with price info. But they don't. In Belgium, The Netherlands and Italy the market is probably rather small, so they could sell leftover stock 660s for now. But also not on their website. Maybe we will be the first to get the relaunched 661, test it on a longer period (maybe including France and the UK) before expanding to other markets again. And the 660 will be produced for the other markets for the time being.
It could be linked to their distribution channels but the odd one is Austria imo, delivering Germany and Italy but not Austria between them?
Btw, it could just as easily be bad website management but replacing the 660 with the 661 less than a week ago without it being available anytime soon, would be really bad management.
I don't get the irregularity on the websites.
US, Canada, Poland, Austria, Denmark,...: 660
Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany, Italy: 661
France, UK,...: 660 & 661
Germany is a pretty big market and I would think they sell pretty many 660/661 there in a month. So if the 661 isn't available, I would figure they would show the 660 on the website with price info. But they don't. In Belgium, The Netherlands and Italy the market is probably rather small, so they could sell leftover stock 660s for now. But also not on their website. Maybe we will be the first to get the relaunched 661, test it on a longer period (maybe including France and the UK) before expanding to other markets again. And the 660 will be produced for the other markets for the time being.
It could be linked to their distribution channels but the odd one is Austria imo, delivering Germany and Italy but not Austria between them?
Btw, it could just as easily be bad website management but replacing the 660 with the 661 less than a week ago without it being available anytime soon, would be really bad management.
If you buy from a diesel shop instead of the dealer we were getting new ones for $300 plus core. Try didn't have nozzles so you put the old ones on and back in business. The last 07 was a fun ride. It was sold last year and the people totaled it out in less than 3 months. I guess they were going to fast or just spun out. I never got the whole story.
Who's going to be first to program the mtronic? Smarty or H&S?
banana boat
ArboristSite Operative
I had no idea stihl made a diesel truck
Nuzzy
Trail Gnome
Was in my Stihl shop a few days ago and they still have their pretty 661 sitting on the shelf for sale, taunting me.
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
I wish I knew what the issue was.......if it's performance related, I could be spinning my wheels studying the responses I get from different port heights on this one I have.
