Tree Damage From Crop Spraying

[ValleyForge]

So, are there any government regulations that affect your business directly, or do you just hate government regulations?

Yes…my favorite one at the moment is Waters of the United States…you know, the regulation that classifies puddles from dozer divots as wetlands…

 

[ATpro]

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[TNTreeHugger]

Yes…my favorite one at the moment is Waters of the United States…you know, the regulation that classifies puddles from dozer divots as wetlands…

This?
https://www.epa.gov/wotus/revising-definition-waters-united-states
https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...sed-definition-of-waters-of-the-united-statesPlease show me where it says, "classifies puddles from dozer divots as wetlands"

 

[ValleyForge]

This?
https://www.epa.gov/wotus/revising-definition-waters-united-states
https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...sed-definition-of-waters-of-the-united-statesPlease show me where it says, "classifies puddles from dozer divots as wetlands"

Read the law.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Read the law.

Overview of the rule​

Under the EPA's rule, approximately 60 percent of previously unregulated bodies of water will be regulated as waters of the United States. The EPA and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers regulate these waters through a permit program. EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy in 2015 argued that the rule expands the amount of water already regulated under the Clean Water Act by approximately 3 percent. In justifying the rule, the EPA argued that the aim of the rule is establish a "more precisely defined, more predictable" guide for regulating waters and requiring permits from individuals, businesses, and industries.[6][19]

The rule covers the following areas:[6]

• Tributaries are regulated if they "show physical features of flowing water," such as a bank or ordinary high water mark.
• Waters adjacent to rivers and lakes are regulated if the water affects the chemical, physical, or biological integrity of a body of water downstream and if the EPA considers these impacts to be more than insignificant or insubstantial.
• Specific regional waters such as prairie potholes, bays, coastal prairie wetlands, and similar waters fall under the rule if they are adjacent to jurisdictional tributaries that are already regulated under the Clean Water Act. Certain specialized wetlands are regulated if they significantly affect the chemical, physical, or biological integrity of other bodies of water, such as navigable-in-fact waters, interstate waters, and the territorial seas.
• Ditches constructed out of streams or that function like streams are regulated under the rule. These include ditches that drain wetlands. The EPA excluded the regulation of ditches that flow only after rain falls, ditches that are not hydrologically connected to other regulated waters, and ditches that flow more intermittently over a certain period of time.

If the EPA and the U.S. Army Corps determine that projects involve any discharge of any pollutant into the waters covered under the rule, regardless of the environmental effects of the discharge, a federal permit is required from the individuals, businesses, or industries involved. Projects exempt from the permit process include regular farming and ranching activities, such as plowing and harvesting, as well as maintenance farm roads and irrigation ditches.[

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Yes…my favorite one at the moment is Waters of the United States…you know, the regulation that classifies puddles from dozer divots as wetlands…

The rule doesn't seem to say what you said it says.
Exactly how are these rules a bad thing?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I'd say you're stepping over a line into what's not acceptable here. It's totally understandable, however, because of your very upsetting experience.

ATH has rightly pointed out that it's not the tool, or the maker of the tool, but the person using it who's initially responsible for any damage done by the tool. And even the user is not evil if he's made a mistake. Only if he had a general policy of flouting the rules would his actions be 'evil'.

But we have to dig deeper into more uncomfortable areas to find who is really responsible for the problem of agri-chemical use damaging people's lives. The root of the problem is us - not some of us - all of us. Those of us who are well-fed, especially those who are overweight, put pressure on the system to produce lots of food. Those of us who go shopping and deliberately pick the cheapest food, put pressure on the system to produce lots of food cheaply. That can't be done for today's population levels without the use of 'chemicals' such as herbicides, fertilisers, pesticides, etc. And any bright idea to produce food more cheaply will be given a go, often with catastrophic results.

In the UK, our recent outbreaks of Foot & Mouth and BSE were ultimately caused by the shopper always buying the cheapest meat. We still suffer from those calamities today, because the government slapped very tough restrictions on British agriculture, but is happy to allow cheap imports of food from other countries where those standards do not apply.

What to do about it? If we all ate less and bought only the best quality food, that would help. Show producers that we'd rather have good food than cheap food. And the most effective solution would be for us humans to curb our breeding.

But it's not going to happen, so we'll just carry on pointing the finger at Monsanto or our neighbouring farmer and refuse to believe that we ourselves are the reason we have chemicals floating about in the air, killing our garden plants. So I'm afraid it really is a case of 'get over it and move on', because it's not a sympathetic or compassionate world out there and you're a part of it.

I'll get my hat...

Have you read this book by any chance?
https://kyl.neocities.org/books/[SOC BER] the unsettling of america.pdf
"Thus we can see growing out of our history a condition that is physically dangerous, morally repugnant, ugly. Contrary to the blandishments of the salesmen, it is not particularly comfortable or happy. It is not even affluent in any meaningful sense, because its abundance is dependent on sources that are being rapidly exhausted by its methods. To see these things is to come up against the question: Then what is desirable? One possibility is just to tag along with the fantasists in government and industry who would have us believe that we can pursue our ideals of affluence, comfort, mobility, and leisure indefinitely. This curious faith is predicated on the notion that we will soon develop unlimited new sources of energy: domestic oil fields, shale oil, gasified coal, nuclear power, solar energy, and so on. This is fantastical because the basic cause of the energy crisis is not scarcity; it is moral ignorance and weakness of character. We don’t know how to use energy, or what to use it for. And we cannot restrain ourselves. Our time is characterized as much by the abuse and waste of human energy as it is by the abuse and waste of fossil fuel energy. Nuclear power, if we are to believe its advocates, is presumably going to be well used by the same mentality that has egregiously devalued and misapplied man- and womanpower. If we had an unlimited supply of solar or wind power, we would use that destructively, too, for the same reasons"

It's reminding me of your post.

 

[Bill G]

Yes…my favorite one at the moment is Waters of the United States…you know, the regulation that classifies puddles from dozer divots as wetlands…

Now, Now, your picking on the good ole USCEC. They have MANY issues but grain farmers depend on them. Personally it is a love-hate-tolerate relationship. Had I kept my job with them I would be just a few years from retirement.

Who am I kidding they have **** tons of issues

 

[Bill G]

I was just suggesting that maybe people in your area are responsible for the illegal dumping since your county closed some of the dump sites.
I also thought it was unlikely someone would cross a river to dump their trash, and that's why I was looking at the map of the river. Now I see that the river isn't as wide as I imagined it was and crossing by vehicle over a bridge wouldn't be that difficult.
Why do you think they are going to all that trouble to dump their trash out of state?

So let me get this right you say....people in your area are responsible for the illegal dumping since your county closed some of the dump sites............ Where since you seem to know everything where is the "dump site" at that you claim our county closed? I am asking for an address.

You say ..............I also thought it was unlikely someone would cross a river to dump their trash.............. Well we maybe "just dumb country folks" but we do cross the river. Sometimes 10 times a day.

You say ..........Why do you think they are going to all that trouble to dump their trash out of state............... Well that can be summed up with two words cheap and lazy.

In general it is best to actually know a bit about a subject when you try to comment about it. Also it is better to leave insults out as that once again reduces credibility.

 

[Bill G]

Around here most bridges have cameras.

Looking at cameras would take too long and require too much work. I just looked at their W-2's but heck I am just a liar and a "dum contry fulk that dont no nuttin" so i must be wrong.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

So let me get this right you say....people in your area are responsible for the illegal dumping since your county closed some of the dump sites............ Where since you seem to know everything where is the "dump site" at that you claim our county closed? I am asking for an address.

You say ..............I also thought it was unlikely someone would cross a river to dump their trash.............. Well we maybe "just dumb country folks" but we do cross the river. Sometimes 10 times a day.

You say ..........Why do you think they are going to all that trouble to dump their trash out of state............... Well that can be summed up with two words cheap and lazy.

In general it is best to actually know a bit about a subject when you try to comment about it. Also it is better to leave insults out as that once again reduces credibility.

The addresses of the closed sites are in the article I posted... if not that article, another one I read. Check your local newspaper for details.
The people in Iowa can't be too lazy if they're willing to cross state lines to dump trash when they have the same wooded areas on their side of the river. Maybe they have cameras on their side of the river?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Now, Now, your picking on the good ole USCEC. They have MANY issues but grain farmers depend on them. Personally it is a love-hate-tolerate relationship. Had I kept my job with them I would be just a few years from retirement.

Who am I kidding they have **** tons of issues

So, are/ were you a government employee?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Looking at cameras would take too long and require too much work. I just looked at their W-2's but heck I am just a liar and a "dum contry fulk that dont no nuttin" so i must be wrong.

And as far as "insults and credibility" goes, no one needs to bother insulting you - you're doing a great job of it all by yourself

 

[TNTreeHugger]

So let me get this right you say....people in your area are responsible for the illegal dumping since your county closed some of the dump sites............ Where since you seem to know everything where is the "dump site" at that you claim our county closed? I am asking for an address.

Here, let me do you a favor since you seem to be a little frazzled today. You're welcome.
And if you have any questions about the closings, you can contact them here:
https://ricwma.org/
"The Rock Island County Waste Management Agency (RICWMA) has decided to eliminate the recycling drop-off sites in the county due to budget cuts.

The containers at the four current drop-off sites, hosted by East Moline, Milan, Moline and Rock Island, will be permanently removed on September 30, 2021.
All residents living in Rock Island County can use any one of the following four regional drop-off recycling sites through Thursday:

• East Moline — 1200 13th Avenue (Engineering & Maintenance Services Facility)
• Milan — 451 West 4th Street
• Moline — 3635 4th Avenue at Public Works Department
• Rock Island — 701 2nd Street

Recyclable materials will be collected from each site through a two-stream process – paper products and co-mingled containers."

And YES, I did see the date of the announcement.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Looking at cameras would take too long and require too much work. I just looked at their W-2's but heck I am just a liar and a "dum contry fulk that dont no nuttin" so i must be wrong.

How did you get "their" W-2s?

 

[Bill G]

So, are/ were you a government employee?

I was from 1991-1995 and it was great!

 

[Bill G]

Here, let me do you a favor since you seem to be a little frazzled today. You're welcome.
And if you have any questions about the closings, you can contact them here:
https://ricwma.org/
"The Rock Island County Waste Management Agency (RICWMA) has decided to eliminate the recycling drop-off sites in the county due to budget cuts.

The containers at the four current drop-off sites, hosted by East Moline, Milan, Moline and Rock Island, will be permanently removed on September 30, 2021.
All residents living in Rock Island County can use any one of the following four regional drop-off recycling sites through Thursday:

• East Moline — 1200 13th Avenue (Engineering & Maintenance Services Facility)
• Milan — 451 West 4th Street
• Moline — 3635 4th Avenue at Public Works Department
• Rock Island — 701 2nd Street

Recyclable materials will be collected from each site through a two-stream process – paper products and co-mingled containers."

And YES, I did see the date of the announcement.

Where in all that does it say ANYTHING AT ALL about closing a "dump" I really wonder about if you comprehend what you read and write or just form incorrect conclusions from thin air.

 

[Bill G]

And as far as "insults and credibility" goes, no one needs to bother insulting you - you're doing a great job of it all by yourself

Where have I insulted you? Where have I failed to back up statements with fact?

 

[Bill G]

How did you get "their" W-2s?

I bent over and picked them up off the ground. The same place these were. I cropped their heads for privacy

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Where in all that does it say ANYTHING AT ALL about closing a "dump" I really wonder about if you comprehend what you read and write or just form incorrect conclusions from thin air.

Around here we call the convenience center "the dump."
We have recycling containers at "the dump."
We have several dump sites around the county in areas where there is no garbage pick up.
Maybe your county operates differently.
Does your county have garbage pickup service for all residents, or do you have garbage drop off centers in the county for garbage and recyclables?

Not that I see this has anything to do with my trees, or farming in general, but what the hay. May as well discuss your trash problem while I'm waiting on the official DoA report.