pigpen60
ArboristSite Member
my neighbor picks up the limbs that hung and fell in his yard and chucks them in mine. my other neighbor dropped a tree across the line and blocked my path so I cut it up to the line and haven't heard anything.
Tree falls on my property who's wood is it?
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This whole thread is hilarious...
The answer to the OP's question depends on state law, local law and the circumstances of the "fall".
In this state and county, the rightful owner of the tree is the owner of the property where the tree grew, not the property where it fell... but both property owners have "rights".
The owner of the tree (the property owner where the tree grew) has the "right" to enter the others property to retrieve his "rightful" property, but that right-of-entry extends only far enough to "retrieve"... the entry must be "reasonable". No different than if I shoot a deer that runs onto the neighbors property before falling... I have the "right" to enter the neighbor's property (without seeking permission) to retrieve the deer (but I am not allowed to carry the hunting firearm without permission).
The property owner where the tree fell has the "right" to clean up the mess, but even though he may have expenses and labor involved, he does not have claim to the tree (any part of it). However, if the property owner where the tree fell can prove negligence on the part of tree owner, he can sue for damages and expenses... but he still has no claim to the tree (wood). Which, yes, that means the property owner where the tree fell can put the tree back on the property of the tree owner during the "clean-up"... but he can not damage any other part of that property, or do it with malice. Meaning he can not bring a chipper in and blow all the chips back onto the tree owner's property (he can only do what is required to return the property without creating extra work or expense to the tree owner).
Now, as far as a living tree with part of it hanging over the property line...
Yes, I have the "right" to trim off any part of a tree extending over my property and creating a nuance, such as a low-hanging branch or one overly shading my garden (provided my garden was there before the tree shaded it). But in this case, because I created the "mess", I can not place the "mess" onto the tree owner's property without permission, nor can I dispose of it without giving the owner a chance to claim his "rightful" property. Basically, I'm required to inform the tree owner of my intentions and ask him if he want's to keep the part of the tree I remove... if he does not want it, it is my responsibility to dispose of it.
So what if the tree is growing right on the property line??
Well, the center of the tree determines ownership... it ain't about where the tree is, it's about where the tree sprouted.
And, no, you can not cut of the part of the trunk encroaching on your property if the center is on another... unless, and you would need to prove it, it is creating a nuance (and you can bet the question asked of you would be what nuance is it creating now that it wasn't creating during the past 20 years?).
Where I live, the OP did not have the "right" to the wood, he did not have the "right" to turn it into firewood... he only had the "right" to cut it into pieces manageable enough for returning to the owners property without causing further damage. Or, he could have contacted the owner and asked him if he "chose" to claim the property... and worked out when, where, what, how and who would be doing the clean-up. If the tree was blocking an access of some sort, he had every "right" to a timely clean-up... but no "right" to the property.
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The answer to the OP's question depends on state law, local law and the circumstances of the "fall".
In this state and county, the rightful owner of the tree is the owner of the property where the tree grew, not the property where it fell... but both property owners have "rights".
The owner of the tree (the property owner where the tree grew) has the "right" to enter the others property to retrieve his "rightful" property, but that right-of-entry extends only far enough to "retrieve"... the entry must be "reasonable". No different than if I shoot a deer that runs onto the neighbors property before falling... I have the "right" to enter the neighbor's property (without seeking permission) to retrieve the deer (but I am not allowed to carry the hunting firearm without permission).
The property owner where the tree fell has the "right" to clean up the mess, but even though he may have expenses and labor involved, he does not have claim to the tree (any part of it). However, if the property owner where the tree fell can prove negligence on the part of tree owner, he can sue for damages and expenses... but he still has no claim to the tree (wood). Which, yes, that means the property owner where the tree fell can put the tree back on the property of the tree owner during the "clean-up"... but he can not damage any other part of that property, or do it with malice. Meaning he can not bring a chipper in and blow all the chips back onto the tree owner's property (he can only do what is required to return the property without creating extra work or expense to the tree owner).
Now, as far as a living tree with part of it hanging over the property line...
Yes, I have the "right" to trim off any part of a tree extending over my property and creating a nuance, such as a low-hanging branch or one overly shading my garden (provided my garden was there before the tree shaded it). But in this case, because I created the "mess", I can not place the "mess" onto the tree owner's property without permission, nor can I dispose of it without giving the owner a chance to claim his "rightful" property. Basically, I'm required to inform the tree owner of my intentions and ask him if he want's to keep the part of the tree I remove... if he does not want it, it is my responsibility to dispose of it.
So what if the tree is growing right on the property line??
Well, the center of the tree determines ownership... it ain't about where the tree is, it's about where the tree sprouted.
And, no, you can not cut of the part of the trunk encroaching on your property if the center is on another... unless, and you would need to prove it, it is creating a nuance (and you can bet the question asked of you would be what nuance is it creating now that it wasn't creating during the past 20 years?).
Where I live, the OP did not have the "right" to the wood, he did not have the "right" to turn it into firewood... he only had the "right" to cut it into pieces manageable enough for returning to the owners property without causing further damage. Or, he could have contacted the owner and asked him if he "chose" to claim the property... and worked out when, where, what, how and who would be doing the clean-up. If the tree was blocking an access of some sort, he had every "right" to a timely clean-up... but no "right" to the property.
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zogger
Tree Freak
Wow, a gypo logger musta snuck in at night and done stole the whole dang log!!!! sneaky guys 
Need to sic the tree swat guys on him!
Need to sic the tree swat guys on him!
Sawyer Rob
Addicted to ArboristSite
NOT here you don't! That case has already been tested here, and you DO NOT have the right to go get it! NO exceptions!
SR
Not true here. You may enter to retrieve a game animal or hunting dog without permission but must leave if asked to by landowner.
What if the property owner where the tree grew refuses to retrieve his rightful property? Or does not do it in a timely manner. Does the property owner where the tree fell have to go to court to obtain custody of said tree?
Law can be interesting. Or it can make you nuts. That's before we even get into having different laws in different places.
Philbert
zogger
Tree Freak
Here's a cool one....property line is the state line! So, it falls into a different state and county! OMG, lawyer fest!
Haywire Haywood
Fiscal Conservative Social Retard
I had a deer run onto a neighbor's property once. I knew he was sensitive about property lines, so I retrieved the deer and took him a tenderloin. He still wasn't happy and I soon wrote him off and did what I need to do without any consideration about what he might think.
climbhightree
ArboristSite Operative
Very interesting "whitespider" definitely proves every place is different.
In your area, does all you said apply to a tree that fell on a neighbor's house too ? Does the tree owner still have rights to the wood/tree? Who is responsible to pay for the removal?
Well I don't know where "here" is, but in Iowa it is state law printed right in the hunting and trapping regulations. In fact, if the land owner tries to stop me from retrieving the game animal, interferes with the retrieval, tries to claim the animal, or hides the animal, he is the one who has broken the law. Although, as I said, there are limits; I can not carry the firearm, I must use the most direct route, I can not cause damage, and I must walk not drive onto his property... as long as I stay within the limits I can follow a blood trail across a dozen or more properties without permission.
The tree still belongs to the tree owner (if he wants to claim it), but he can only be held legally "responsible" if negligent in some way... i.e., the owner is not held responsible for an "act of god".
No doubt, 999 times out of a 1000, neither party values the downed tree more than sour owl crap and the insurance companies handle that sort of thing... the legal/civil issues never arise.
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climbhightree
ArboristSite Operative
So if he wants to claim it...he, or his insurance, pays to get it off the neighbors house etc?
No, he is not "legally" responsible for costs unless he is negligent... but the tree is his rightful property, he can, or may, claim it. He can ask the tree service (or whomever) to return the property, or place it where he can retrieve it, when it is removed from the house. Although he may personally enter the neighbor's property to retrieve his rightful property, he can not cause further damage... which pretty much stops him from personally climbing up on the house to retrieve it.
Like I said, 999 times out of a 1000 these civil issues would never come up... and if there's a disagreement, that's what civil court is for.
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Look at the whole thing this way...
Let's say I have a picnic table in my yard and a storm blows it onto the neighbor's property. I have the "right" to enter the neighbor's property (without seeking permission) to retrieve it, but I can not stomp all over his garden and pee on his shrubs while doing so. The neighbor has the "right" to remove the table from his property, but he must return it (because it is my property) and he can not (intentionally) bust it into pieces in the process... nor can he throw it on top of my rose bushes.
Now let's say a tornado blows the table on his roof, damaging the shingles. The table still belongs to me, but I an not responsible for the damage to the shingles (act of god thing, it is "storm damage"). Although I can retrieve the table, I can not throw a rope around it and drag it across his roof causing further damage. Likely both of us would contact our insurance companies, they would work-out the details. But, unless there was negligence on my part, the neighbor's insurance company would pay to have the table removed and the shingles repaired... and the table, if it could be reasonable removed without destroying it, would be returned to me (because it is mine). Even if the removal required the destruction of the table, the pieces are still my property, and I have a "right" to claim them if I choose to (and my insurance company would compensate me for the picnic table).
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Let's say I have a picnic table in my yard and a storm blows it onto the neighbor's property. I have the "right" to enter the neighbor's property (without seeking permission) to retrieve it, but I can not stomp all over his garden and pee on his shrubs while doing so. The neighbor has the "right" to remove the table from his property, but he must return it (because it is my property) and he can not (intentionally) bust it into pieces in the process... nor can he throw it on top of my rose bushes.
Now let's say a tornado blows the table on his roof, damaging the shingles. The table still belongs to me, but I an not responsible for the damage to the shingles (act of god thing, it is "storm damage"). Although I can retrieve the table, I can not throw a rope around it and drag it across his roof causing further damage. Likely both of us would contact our insurance companies, they would work-out the details. But, unless there was negligence on my part, the neighbor's insurance company would pay to have the table removed and the shingles repaired... and the table, if it could be reasonable removed without destroying it, would be returned to me (because it is mine). Even if the removal required the destruction of the table, the pieces are still my property, and I have a "right" to claim them if I choose to (and my insurance company would compensate me for the picnic table).
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Can't argue with that. If there's a situation between you and your neighbor, the thing to do is go to your neighbor and work it out. You don't want to get the government involved, for they will screw you both over, and then tax you for it.
mainewoods
Addicted to ArboristSite
I believe you will find that if a tree falls on your property you are responsible for cleaning it up. In other words it's yours, up to the neighbors property line and no further. You can not enter onto another persons property. Cutting any part of the tree on his property is considered trespassing and could also be considered theft. You can trim branches from a neighbors tree that are hanging over your property, but only to the property line, and you can not injure the tree doing it. The general rule of thumb is that if it's on your property it's yours to deal with. A good neighbor would offer to help with cleanup. An act of God is no ones fault, unless intentional negligence can be shown, which is very difficult to prove.
Cheesecutter
Addicted to ArboristSite
In June a storm ripped through a neighboring town. Friends of ours had a next door neighbors walnut tree on their house and garage. Since property damage was done, the person liable was the owner where the tree grew. My friends removed the tree, the neighbors insurance fixed the roofs. In front of the house a dozen pines broke off and ended up across the street but did no damage so they were now that persons responsibility to clean up.
Here is one for you to ponder my neighbors tree falls in my yard I cut it up he tries to take the wood I stop him one way or the other!
Maybe in Maine it's yours (I don't know), but you can't tell the OP, from Wisconsin, that is the case... 'cause it ain't yours here where I live.
As far as who is responsible for the clean-up... well... again... that is gonna' depend on state law, local law and circumstances. There is no Federal law on such a thing... what is true in Maine, may only be true in Maine. Heck, it may only be true in your local township.
A perfect example of how things are different from one local area to another... civil law is not universal, it only applies locally.
Nothing to ponder.
Where I live the tree belongs to him; if you stop him from retrieving it, if you keep it without his permission... you either go to jail for property theft or will be sued for compensation depending on the circumstances (if he chooses to pursue it). And if you use force to stop him (your words, "one way or another") you have committed a felony offense.
One person's rights can not remove the rights of another... ever.
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mainewoods
Addicted to ArboristSite
Not disputing you at all spidey, you make valid points. But going onto another persons property without permission is trespassing. Taking something from their property,unless it was yours to begin with, is theft. From what I have seen, in a lot of states if your neighbors tree ( not a wild animal, table, chair or something man made) falls, blows onto or ends up there by an act of God, it is yours to deal with, up to the abutting property line.
I have never heard of an issue because a tree fell on someones property around here. It falls, first one to cut it up keeps it. Usually its more of "I hope he gets it before I have to" sort of thing.
Interesting that some one mentioned having a ford pickup roll into their property. Owner of said truck would be responsible for any damage to property and removal of the truck. Then you get those that deliberately park a truck on someones property. I had that issue a few years ago with the telephone company. Repair guy parks truck in my yard to work on a phone box located across the street. Usually this wouldnt be such a big deal, but I had just built a house and the yard was freshly graded and seeded. Grass just poking out of the ground, it had been raining and I guess you can imagine the rutts the truck put in my yard. to make matters worse, My driveway was about 10ft from where he parked the truck and was 22ft wide. If he had parked on the driveway, I wouldnt have said a thing. I questioned the driver about his decision to tearup my yard and he just shrugged his shoulders and them moved the truck, across the street into the neighbors drive way. I went inside and called the phone company and they sent a crew to repair my yard. Should of been done and over with you would think. The next week, I look outside and theres the same truck parked in the same place in my yard. I picked up the phone and called the phone company and they told me to tell the guy working on the phone lines to give them a call. well he moved his truck and company sent another crew to fix the damage done to my lawn. OK, done deal, guy knows better and wont do it again. Wrong! Next week, I look out the window and the guy has his truck parked in the same place in my lawn. Now I was pissed. I took my pickup and drove it to just in front of his truck so he couldnt move it forward, then I took my car and backed it up to the back bumper of the truck where he couldnt move it backwards. Then I went back into the house. In a few minutes the phone guy knocks on the door and tells me he cant get his truck out because I had him blocked in. I told him he no longer owned that truck and that I was the new owner and I wasnt going to move my other vehicles anytime soon and closed the door. In a few mintues, my phone rang and it was the Phone company office asking me why I was refuseing to let their driver move his truck. I replied that their driver abandoned the truck on my property and I was taking possesion of the said truck. They said "You cant do that" , my reply was, "I already did" and hung up the phone. Well it wasnt long that the local law was at my house knocking on my door. Lawman demanded I move my cars and let the phone driver move his truck. I explained to the lawman that the state right of way only extended to the edge of the pavement and the truck was well over the property line on my side of the property. I also explained that this was the third time this driver had damaged my property and had already been informed that he was not to park his truck on my property. His continual to do so forfits his right to retrieve his truck and that to the best of my knowledge, there is no law that says I cant park my vehicles on my property where ever I see fit. I would not be moving my vehicles and would sue anybody that attempted to move my vehicles on my property, and with that I closed the door and left the lawman and the truck driver to figure out what they wanted to do next. In a few minutes, my phone rang and it was the phone company calling to ask how we could resolve this situation. I told them that I had already called a guy with a cutting torch to come and start scraping the truck and I had no intentions of letting them have the truck back. Of course he started threatening lawsuits, court actions, etc, etc. I just reminded him that he had been given 2 previous warnings about parking the truck in my lawn, each time they had to repair said damages and I felt pretty confident in court the jury would see it my way and hung up the phone. It took about an hour before the Phone company man got to my house and he stood out there for a few minutes talking to the police man and the driver. Then the policeman knocked on my door. being all polite, he told me I really should consider moving my vehicles to let the truck out. I asked him, Are there any laws saying I cant park my vehicles on my property where ever I choose. His answer was no, my answer was, well my vehicles are on my property and parked where I want them. It is the phone company vehicle that is parked illegally. Well the policeman went back to talk with the phone company and then the company manager or what ever he was knocked on the door. He wanted to know just what it was going to take to resolve the situation. I told him it was very simple, first, I wanted a letter stating that the phone company and the company driver acknowledge that they had been asked at least twice previously to not park their vehicles on my lawn. Also stating that if at any point in the future if one of their trucks was parked in my yard that they forfitted any right to reclaim said truck. I also wanted a crew there to fix my lawn before the truck left my premises and that the driver of the truck would be raking and shoveling and doing the actual work. They didnt like it one bit so I told them to think it over and let me know what they decided. I watched them thru the window and they made several calls. I dont know who they called or what was said, but in a little while they came knocking at the door and agreed to my terms. I had to wait, as did they until a letter was delivered from the home office about 60miles away. With letter in hand, I moved my vehicles back to the garage, they moved the truck and the truckdriver was raking with a rake. New seed was spread and straw put down. the lawman hung around until everybody left and laughed about how I handled it. Now according to the policeman, I was in the right and there was nothing the phone company could do about it and that they had talked to their lawyers before agreeing to my terms. He also said the sheriff dept told him to not enter my property to force me to move my vehicles and that I wasnt breaking any laws.
Whether or not I had a legal right to take these actions, I dont know for certain, but it worked and nobody went to jail. As to whether or not I had a moral right to stop repeated damage to my lawn, no question about it. I was right in every sense of the word. I offered the truck driver the first time to let him use my driveway so he wouldnt have to park in my lawn. I dont think he realized I only work 4 days a wk and was always home on Fridays, and he thought he would just be a ******* and park in my lawn and I wouldnt catch him. I can guarantee he doesnt park there anymore. He wont even use my driveway to turn around in.
Interesting that some one mentioned having a ford pickup roll into their property. Owner of said truck would be responsible for any damage to property and removal of the truck. Then you get those that deliberately park a truck on someones property. I had that issue a few years ago with the telephone company. Repair guy parks truck in my yard to work on a phone box located across the street. Usually this wouldnt be such a big deal, but I had just built a house and the yard was freshly graded and seeded. Grass just poking out of the ground, it had been raining and I guess you can imagine the rutts the truck put in my yard. to make matters worse, My driveway was about 10ft from where he parked the truck and was 22ft wide. If he had parked on the driveway, I wouldnt have said a thing. I questioned the driver about his decision to tearup my yard and he just shrugged his shoulders and them moved the truck, across the street into the neighbors drive way. I went inside and called the phone company and they sent a crew to repair my yard. Should of been done and over with you would think. The next week, I look outside and theres the same truck parked in the same place in my yard. I picked up the phone and called the phone company and they told me to tell the guy working on the phone lines to give them a call. well he moved his truck and company sent another crew to fix the damage done to my lawn. OK, done deal, guy knows better and wont do it again. Wrong! Next week, I look out the window and the guy has his truck parked in the same place in my lawn. Now I was pissed. I took my pickup and drove it to just in front of his truck so he couldnt move it forward, then I took my car and backed it up to the back bumper of the truck where he couldnt move it backwards. Then I went back into the house. In a few minutes the phone guy knocks on the door and tells me he cant get his truck out because I had him blocked in. I told him he no longer owned that truck and that I was the new owner and I wasnt going to move my other vehicles anytime soon and closed the door. In a few mintues, my phone rang and it was the Phone company office asking me why I was refuseing to let their driver move his truck. I replied that their driver abandoned the truck on my property and I was taking possesion of the said truck. They said "You cant do that" , my reply was, "I already did" and hung up the phone. Well it wasnt long that the local law was at my house knocking on my door. Lawman demanded I move my cars and let the phone driver move his truck. I explained to the lawman that the state right of way only extended to the edge of the pavement and the truck was well over the property line on my side of the property. I also explained that this was the third time this driver had damaged my property and had already been informed that he was not to park his truck on my property. His continual to do so forfits his right to retrieve his truck and that to the best of my knowledge, there is no law that says I cant park my vehicles on my property where ever I see fit. I would not be moving my vehicles and would sue anybody that attempted to move my vehicles on my property, and with that I closed the door and left the lawman and the truck driver to figure out what they wanted to do next. In a few minutes, my phone rang and it was the phone company calling to ask how we could resolve this situation. I told them that I had already called a guy with a cutting torch to come and start scraping the truck and I had no intentions of letting them have the truck back. Of course he started threatening lawsuits, court actions, etc, etc. I just reminded him that he had been given 2 previous warnings about parking the truck in my lawn, each time they had to repair said damages and I felt pretty confident in court the jury would see it my way and hung up the phone. It took about an hour before the Phone company man got to my house and he stood out there for a few minutes talking to the police man and the driver. Then the policeman knocked on my door. being all polite, he told me I really should consider moving my vehicles to let the truck out. I asked him, Are there any laws saying I cant park my vehicles on my property where ever I choose. His answer was no, my answer was, well my vehicles are on my property and parked where I want them. It is the phone company vehicle that is parked illegally. Well the policeman went back to talk with the phone company and then the company manager or what ever he was knocked on the door. He wanted to know just what it was going to take to resolve the situation. I told him it was very simple, first, I wanted a letter stating that the phone company and the company driver acknowledge that they had been asked at least twice previously to not park their vehicles on my lawn. Also stating that if at any point in the future if one of their trucks was parked in my yard that they forfitted any right to reclaim said truck. I also wanted a crew there to fix my lawn before the truck left my premises and that the driver of the truck would be raking and shoveling and doing the actual work. They didnt like it one bit so I told them to think it over and let me know what they decided. I watched them thru the window and they made several calls. I dont know who they called or what was said, but in a little while they came knocking at the door and agreed to my terms. I had to wait, as did they until a letter was delivered from the home office about 60miles away. With letter in hand, I moved my vehicles back to the garage, they moved the truck and the truckdriver was raking with a rake. New seed was spread and straw put down. the lawman hung around until everybody left and laughed about how I handled it. Now according to the policeman, I was in the right and there was nothing the phone company could do about it and that they had talked to their lawyers before agreeing to my terms. He also said the sheriff dept told him to not enter my property to force me to move my vehicles and that I wasnt breaking any laws.
Whether or not I had a legal right to take these actions, I dont know for certain, but it worked and nobody went to jail. As to whether or not I had a moral right to stop repeated damage to my lawn, no question about it. I was right in every sense of the word. I offered the truck driver the first time to let him use my driveway so he wouldnt have to park in my lawn. I dont think he realized I only work 4 days a wk and was always home on Fridays, and he thought he would just be a ******* and park in my lawn and I wouldnt catch him. I can guarantee he doesnt park there anymore. He wont even use my driveway to turn around in.
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