Tree falls on my property who's wood is it?

[slowp]

I am thankful for my neighbors. When I was packing some firewood up the hill, the guy on that side stopped and said I should roll it down to their road and come and pick it up. I hadn't asked, he stopped and offered. So, I did but had one roll under an electric fence, which according to the grass blade test was off--it was.

I've had my road plowed because "The power was off and we were bored." I've had a misdelivered UPS package brought to my house. I trim the grass along the road so the line of sight is improved. Even the meth sellers were nice--we didn't even know they were selling!

Is this just a western thing? Those ancestors of ours who moved out here had to rely and help each other to make it here. Could that still be in our genes?

 

[Philbert]

I run the snowthrower down the entire block. Unless one of the neighbors beats me to it.

Philbert

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I asked one of our neighbors with a plow to clear our little side road on his way out to do the parking lots. Said he couldn't because of liability reasons.

 

[Chris-PA]

I am thankful for my neighbors. When I was packing some firewood up the hill, the guy on that side stopped and said I should roll it down to their road and come and pick it up. I hadn't asked, he stopped and offered. So, I did but had one roll under an electric fence, which according to the grass blade test was off--it was.

I've had my road plowed because "The power was off and we were bored." I've had a misdelivered UPS package brought to my house. I trim the grass along the road so the line of sight is improved. Even the meth sellers were nice--we didn't even know they were selling!

Is this just a western thing? Those ancestors of ours who moved out here had to rely and help each other to make it here. Could that still be in our genes?

By the time the township or power company gets out here, we've usually got the trees cut up and removed, unless they are still wrapped up in the lines. My neighbor up at the top of the lane plows it in the winter, but if he's not home I do it with the Gravely or the loader. When the lane washes out I drag it with the box blade, and one of us will put the diversions back. Nobody needs to be asked. The guy in the middle never does a thing, but he benefits anyway.

 

[Whitespider]

Not disputing you at all spidey, you make valid points. But going onto another persons property without permission is trespassing.

Trespassing laws vary from state to state, locality to locality... also, there is civil trespass and criminal trespass.
Here, where I live, trespass is entering onto someones property without permission or a right to do so (a example of a "right to do so would be to retrieve property, wounded/down game, etc.) with intent to make illegal use of that property (such as building a hunting blind, camping, or removing a tree belonging to the property owner), or in some way obstructing the rightful owner's use of that property. Simply stepping onto someone's property is not trespassing unless the owner asks you to vacate and you refuse, or you ignore "NO TRESPASSING" signs without a "right" to do so, and in some cases if you cross a fence (basically, the fence needs to be an anti-personal type, such as a privacy or high chain link).

Trespass laws are not universal across the United States... there are no Federal trespass laws pertaining to "private" property.
Most criminal trespass laws are state laws, most civil trespass laws are local laws.
Where I live, it is not trespassing if I simply walk across my neighbors property... unless he has formally asked me to stop/vacate (and informed law enforcement of the formal request) and/or placed "NO Trespassing" signs in plain view of my entry point. Even then, I have the "right" to enter his property to retrieve my property, wounded/downed game, and a few other reasons... for example, I can enter his property to aid someone in distress or danger (even if that someone is a trespasser himself), or to protect myself (such as getting out of the way of a falling tree).
*

 

[Whitespider]

Here is the Iowa criminal code defining what is trespass on private property (underlining and bolding are mine)...

a. “Trespass ” shall mean one or more of the following acts:

(1) Entering upon or in property without the express permission of the owner, lessee, or person in lawful possession with the intent to commit a public offense, to use, remove therefrom, alter, damage, harass, or place thereon or therein anything animate or inanimate, or to hunt, fish or trap on or in the property, including the act of taking or attempting to take a deer, other than a farm deer as defined in section 170.1 or preserve whitetail as defined in section 484C.1, which is on or in the property by a person who is outside the property. This subparagraph does not prohibit the unarmed pursuit of game or fur-bearing animals by a person who lawfully injured or killed the game or fur-bearing animal which comes to rest on or escapes to the property of another.

(2) Entering or remaining upon or in property without justification after being notified or requested to abstain from entering or to remove or vacate therefrom by the owner, lessee, or person in lawful possession, or the agent or employee of the owner, lessee, or person in lawful possession, or by any peace officer, magistrate, or public employee whose duty it is to supervise the use or maintenance of the property.

(3) Entering upon or in property for the purpose or with the effect of unduly interfering with the lawful use of the property by others.

(4) Being upon or in property and wrongfully using, removing therefrom, altering, damaging, harassing, or placing thereon or therein anything animate or inanimate, without the implied or actual permission of the owner, lessee, or person in lawful possession.

So... as you can read... simply walking across someones property is not "trespassing" according to Iowa law, unless the qualifications specified in paragraph (2) have been previously met. And even then, you can still enter if you have "justification".
*

 

[Whitespider]

And here is more...

b. “Trespass ” shall not mean either of the following:

(1) Entering upon the property of another for the sole purpose of retrieving personal property which has accidentally or inadvertently been thrown, fallen, strayed, or blown onto the property of another, provided that the person retrieving the property takes the most direct and accessible route to and from the property to be retrieved, quits the property as quickly as is possible, and does not unduly interfere with the lawful use of the property. This subparagraph does not apply to public utility property where the person has been notified or requested by posted signage or other means to abstain from entering.

*

 

[KenJax Tree]

NOT here you don't! That case has already been tested here, and you DO NOT have the right to go get it! NO exceptions!

SR

You can't go on private property with permission here in Michigan either.

 

[1project2many]

This whole thread is hilarious...
The answer to the OP's question depends on state law, local law and the circumstances of the "fall".
In this state and county, the rightful owner of the tree is the owner of the property where the tree grew, not the property where it fell... but both property owners have "rights".

The owner of the tree (the property owner where the tree grew) has the "right" to enter the others property to retrieve his "rightful" property, but that right-of-entry extends only far enough to "retrieve"... the entry must be "reasonable". No different than if I shoot a deer that runs onto the neighbors property before falling... I have the "right" to enter the neighbor's property (without seeking permission) to retrieve the deer (but I am not allowed to carry the hunting firearm without permission).

The property owner where the tree fell has the "right" to clean up the mess, but even though he may have expenses and labor involved, he does not have claim to the tree (any part of it). However, if the property owner where the tree fell can prove negligence on the part of tree owner, he can sue for damages and expenses... but he still has no claim to the tree (wood). Which, yes, that means the property owner where the tree fell can put the tree back on the property of the tree owner during the "clean-up"... but he can not damage any other part of that property, or do it with malice. Meaning he can not bring a chipper in and blow all the chips back onto the tree owner's property (he can only do what is required to return the property without creating extra work or expense to the tree owner).

Now, as far as a living tree with part of it hanging over the property line...
Yes, I have the "right" to trim off any part of a tree extending over my property and creating a nuance, such as a low-hanging branch or one overly shading my garden (provided my garden was there before the tree shaded it). But in this case, because I created the "mess", I can not place the "mess" onto the tree owner's property without permission, nor can I dispose of it without giving the owner a chance to claim his "rightful" property. Basically, I'm required to inform the tree owner of my intentions and ask him if he want's to keep the part of the tree I remove... if he does not want it, it is my responsibility to dispose of it.

So what if the tree is growing right on the property line??
Well, the center of the tree determines ownership... it ain't about where the tree is, it's about where the tree sprouted.
And, no, you can not cut of the part of the trunk encroaching on your property if the center is on another... unless, and you would need to prove it, it is creating a nuance (and you can bet the question asked of you would be what nuance is it creating now that it wasn't creating during the past 20 years?).

Where I live, the OP did not have the "right" to the wood, he did not have the "right" to turn it into firewood... he only had the "right" to cut it into pieces manageable enough for returning to the owners property without causing further damage. Or, he could have contacted the owner and asked him if he "chose" to claim the property... and worked out when, where, what, how and who would be doing the clean-up. If the tree was blocking an access of some sort, he had every "right" to a timely clean-up... but no "right" to the property.
*
*

Thank you. "It depends" is the correct answer. The law here in NH is the same as what's above regarding trees. Wood from tree belongs to PO regardless of where it lands. It's also the same in MA, and I've dealt with the "what if their tree falls on your house" question there. Homeowner's insurance covers damage to home. Cleanup costs are not part of insurance claim. PO where tree grew gets wood. Homeowner must try and recover costs from PO.

We start by determining who owns the tree in question. Because a tree is a product of the soil, the tree is owned by the owner of the land where it is rooted. ... Landowners generally have a right to grow, maintain or cut down their trees as they see fit. They also have a right not to have their trees pruned or removed without their consent, except pursuant to certain statutory procedures discussed on the next page.

(This is from a very good and interesting discussion of exactly what the OP asked about.)
http://www.nhmunicipal.org/TownAndCity/Article/391

And just to keep the discussion lively, like Whitespider, law here does not require a hunter to obtain permission to hunt on (or walk on) another's land. The PO is responsible for posting signs, enough of them and plenty visible, to warn that a person is unwelcome. And just to complicate issues, some towns do have "permission required" laws so a hunter must know both state and local law when hunting.

Common law in New Hampshire gives the public the right of access to land that's not posted. You won't find that in state law books, because it is common law, going back to the philosophy of New England's early colonists and supported over the centuries by case law.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Hunting/hunt_landowner_hunter_FAQs.htm

In the specific case of the OP's question, regardless of the law it sounds like the landowner where the tree grew feels he has no claim on the wood. Might be best to let that dog lie.

 

[Whitespider]

You can't go on private property with permission here in Michigan either.

Really... no exceptions??
Well, a quick search of the Michigan code brought this up... and I'm bettin' I could find more exceptions if'n it really made a difference to me.

Section 324.73102
(4) A person other than a person possessing a firearm may, unless previously prohibited in writing or orally by the property owner or his or her lessee or agent, enter on foot upon the property of another person for the sole purpose of retrieving a hunting dog. The person shall not remain on the property beyond the reasonable time necessary to retrieve the dog. In an action under section 73109 or 73110, the burden of showing that the property owner or his or her lessee or agent previously prohibited entry under this subsection is on the plaintiff or prosecuting attorney, respectively.

*

 

[lone wolf]

Maybe in Maine it's yours (I don't know), but you can't tell the OP, from Wisconsin, that is the case... 'cause it ain't yours here where I live.
As far as who is responsible for the clean-up... well... again... that is gonna' depend on state law, local law and circumstances. There is no Federal law on such a thing... what is true in Maine, may only be true in Maine. Heck, it may only be true in your local township.


A perfect example of how things are different from one local area to another... civil law is not universal, it only applies locally.


Nothing to ponder.
Where I live the tree belongs to him; if you stop him from retrieving it, if you keep it without his permission... you either go to jail for property theft or will be sued for compensation depending on the circumstances (if he chooses to pursue it). And if you use force to stop him (your words, "one way or another") you have committed a felony offense.

One person's rights can not remove the rights of another... ever.
*

Not here, maybe your state sounds really screwed up.

 

[Whitespider]

Not here, maybe your state sounds really screwed up.

No kiddin'... that "screwed-up"??
Well here is the New jersey trespass law spelled out in your state's hunting regulations...

Trespass Law
Hunters and trappers must have permission (oral or written) from the landowner or lessee prior to entering either posted lands or agricultural lands (which are not required to be posted.) Hunters also must obtain permission to enter posted land and agricultural land to recover deer. Hunters and trappers may not enter unposted land after having been forbidden to trespass by the owner, lessee or occupant.

Now be sure to read that carefully... because what it says is I am not trespassing if I enter unposted land (unless it is agricultural land or I have been previously forbidden).
Are you getting that?? Entering privately owned, unposted, wooded land, grass land, any land not used for crops/livestock without permission is not trespass according to New Jersey code‼ While going armed and shooting game, no less‼ It is trespassing after, and only after the land owner asks me to vacate and I refuse, or return.
So... how screwed-up is that??
Are you getting that?? Simply walking across your neighbor's property is not trespassing in New Jersey‼

A person should read the law before stating what it says.
*

 

[Philbert]

Wood from tree belongs to PO regardless of where it lands.

And what if he does not retrieve it in a reasonable amount of time?

I have the "right" to enter his property to retrieve my property, wounded/downed game, and a few other reasons...

So if I shoot the tree and it falls across the property line . . .

Philbert

 

[Whitespider]

So if I shoot the tree and it falls across the property line . . .

You would be negligent... but, on the bright side, you still own the tree
Well, you own it if it was rooted on your property... if it was rooted on his property and you shot it, you're in deep doodoo.
*

 

[zogger]

You would be negligent... but, on the bright side, you still own the tree
Well, you own it if it was rooted on your property... if it was rooted on his property and you shot it, you're in deep doodoo.
*

I am still preferring the gypo logger gambit, no matter the circumstances...

 

[Coldfront]

Wow all we need $500 per hour lawyers over $10 or $15 worth of skunky popple wood. If it wasn't blocking the road out of my driveway I wouldn't have touched it, but since I cut it up and moved it so I could go to work, I kept it. I don't remember the guys name, first time I have seen him in 4 years. I would have to go to the court house and look up the land records to see who pays the taxes on that piece of land.

 

[Whitespider]

Wow all we need $500 per hour lawyers...

Naw, you don't need a lawyer, you just need to read the law.
Social Science 101; In the United States it is the responsibility of every citizen to know the law, Federal, State and local... ignorance is not an acceptable defense.
*

 

[1project2many]

And what if he does not retrieve it in a reasonable amount of time?

To follow a legal path I'd treat it as abandoned property. In NH it could take up to 5 years for it to be considered abandoned. Would you consider that to be a reasonable amount of time? I'd probably call local Ag office and discuss with them. How hard I pursue would depend on what I expect to recover. Is it 4-5 cord of good Oak or a branch from a rotting Willow? It really depends.

As a practical answer it really depends on the situation. Thinking about it as a tree across a driveway that did little other damage I'd probably cut and stack in sight of property line on my side. If owner was a decent guy, maybe apologized for taking so long, offered money or compensation, I'd probably say no harm no foul just take the wood. If he started grumbling I'd argue that the value of the wood is equal to the time and expense to remove it from where it fell and attempt to come to an agreement. If no agreement, well, ultimately it's not my wood to keep. Time will tell as to what plays out after that.

Ultimately I just don't think a branch or tree across a driveway is worth getting into a pissing contest over if there's no history with the abutter. But I'm a Yankee from New England and we don't appreciate having to take the short end of the stick, either.

If it wasn't blocking the road out of my driveway I wouldn't have touched it, but since I cut it up and moved it so I could go to work, I kept it. I don't remember the guys name, first time I have seen him in 4 years.

I'm in agreement that what you did isn't unreasonable. But you didn't ask about that. You asked who owned the wood. In this state, the answer is "He does."

 

[lone wolf]

No kiddin'... that "screwed-up"??
Well here is the New jersey trespass law spelled out in your state's hunting regulations...

Trespass Law
Hunters and trappers must have permission (oral or written) from the landowner or lessee prior to entering either posted lands or agricultural lands (which are not required to be posted.) Hunters also must obtain permission to enter posted land and agricultural land to recover deer. Hunters and trappers may not enter unposted land after having been forbidden to trespass by the owner, lessee or occupant.

Now be sure to read that carefully... because what it says is I am not trespassing if I enter unposted land (unless it is agricultural land or I have been previously forbidden).
Are you getting that?? Entering privately owned, unposted, wooded land, grass land, any land not used for crops/livestock without permission is not trespass according to New Jersey code‼ While going armed and shooting game, no less‼ It is trespassing after, and only after the land owner asks me to vacate and I refuse, or return.
So... how screwed-up is that??
Are you getting that?? Simply walking across your neighbor's property is not trespassing in New Jersey‼

A person should read the law before stating what it says.
*

I was talking about trees falling on to my property and the owner can not claim it! Look that one up while you are at it OK? And he can not just go on my property I tell you it is trespassing! So you think you can go on anyone's property and you wont be trespassing? Where did your info say residence anyway? That's what this is all about not wooded areas! And if posted it is no doubt trespassing. So if the OP's property is posted then the neighbor came over to take the wood there would be no doubt it is trespassing.

 

[H-Ranch]

Repair guy parks truck in my yard to work on a phone box located across the street. Usually this wouldnt be such a big deal, but I had just built a house and the yard was freshly graded and seeded. Grass just poking out of the ground, it had been raining and I guess you can imagine the rutts the truck put in my yard.
..... Now I was pissed. I took my pickup and drove it to just in front of his truck so he couldnt move it forward, then I took my car and backed it up to the back bumper of the truck where he couldnt move it backwards.
..... Then I went back into the house. In a few minutes the phone guy knocks on the door and tells me he cant get his truck out because I had him blocked in. I told him he no longer owned that truck and that I was the new owner and I wasnt going to move my other vehicles anytime soon and closed the door.
..... I just reminded him that he had been given 2 previous warnings about parking the truck in my lawn, each time they had to repair said damages and I felt pretty confident in court the jury would see it my way and hung up the phone.
..... I dont know who they called or what was said, but in a little while they came knocking at the door and agreed to my terms.
..... I can guarantee he doesnt park there anymore. He wont even use my driveway to turn around in.

Avalancher?? Is that you? LOL

By far my favorite story of the year! Bravo!