Turned in the Comp today

[John Paul Sanborn]

How do these guys live with themselves. Pete

Good job Pete. It is hazardous work and little kids should not be in the work area.

Maybe if Mom is supervising and the kids are not stuffing....

Just because child labor laws were violated 20-30 years ago does not make it right today. That one or four people here survived is an anecdote, there are enough statistics of injury and death to justify the way the laws are written.

 

[ms310]

Question

When I was 12 I got into a little bit of trouble for trying to put my hand up a ladies skirt. She must have been 40 at the time. But hey, she wasn't stopping me.

Mckee did you get in trouble for putting your hand up her skirt or for not having on ppe (pe*&s protection equipment)

As far as here in michigan if a cop is driving down the road and sees a kid on a motorcycle, fourwheeler etc with out a helment on he can turn you in for child neglect. In mpo a chipper is alot more dangerous than a 4 wheeler or motorcycle. I think i would have had a talk with the old man, because i personally wouldnt want to get him in a situation where he is charged with child neglect, and possibley loose his kids. If after the talking he hadnt listened then i would have to talk to the cops

 

[newb]

Seriously Guys, This is a man who has been running a biz for over 20 years. He has never used PPE. I know the company that he trained under and it was run the same way. Along comes Pete and tells him the dangers in how he's running his site. You really think a light will come on and he'll say "WOW I never thought about that". I'm walking away, but first I'm reporting him...every time. Pete

 

[Wortown Mick]

So tell me.. In what way does PPE stop you from chipper injury or death?
None, whatsoever.(Hearing loss aside)

A brain bucket might stop a skull fracture from a widowmaker and just leave you with a broken neck, but it doesnt pull last chance cords for you or anything.

If the man in the bucket was working slow / throwing his cuts down/ not just lettin them ride, and being mindful of the fact he had children for helpers the situation wasnt all that dangerous provided the kids had some sort of training and experience with a chipper.

Newb, the fact you even showed up to the customers house is sad.
But the fact you called the police before you even spoke with your "competition" is disgusting.

"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both."

Shouldnt you have been working instead of being a nosey busybody narc?
Thats old lady shiet, friggen vagine.

 

[mckeetree]

Mckee did you get in trouble for putting your hand up her skirt or for not having on ppe (pe*&s protection equipment)

As far as here in michigan if a cop is driving down the road and sees a kid on a motorcycle, fourwheeler etc with out a helment on he can turn you in for child neglect. In mpo a chipper is alot more dangerous than a 4 wheeler or motorcycle. I think i would have had a talk with the old man, because i personally wouldnt want to get him in a situation where he is charged with child neglect, and possibley loose his kids. If after the talking he hadnt listened then i would have to talk to the cops

I got in trouble for putting my hand up her skirt.

 

[custom8726]

Calling the cops was not the answer IMO... There were plenty of better alternitives to try first.

 

[RedlineIt]

So tell me.. In what way does PPE stop you from chipper injury or death?
None, whatsoever.(Hearing loss aside)

Yeah, deafness is a wave off. Wave off speaking people for the rest of your life. Unless you learn to read lips, when you should have read the manual.

Proper eye protection while operating a chipper, what do the manufacturers know, what does OSHA know, scraped cornea are a cheap and easy fix.

"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both."

I'm guessing this is not actually a quote from one of the United States founding fathers, your Constitution, Bill of Rights, or Supreme Court.

In fact, I'm guessing lame anwar losers.

----------------------------

newb,

You did the right thing.


RedlineIt

 

[Bigus Termitius]

I've got my 10 year old in training on side jobs with all the PPE. He wears it like a badge.

He won't be feeding any chippers any time soon though. There is plenty else for him to do and master first.

I would have rather confronted the man first...alone. Then maybe, I would have taken someone with me if he wouldn't hear me. (in this case, the caller)

The law would have been a last resort for me too, but I'm not judging....if you aren't comfortable with confrontation at least you know that no kid became chipper fodder on your watch. That's enough....and far more important than anyone's feelings on whether you did the right thing or not.

When someone takes a group of kids out in public, work or play, and puts them in harms way, they are opening themselves up for honest community concern. There is nothing wrong with that, community concern, provided it stays in bounds.

Put the kids to work, you bet, but give them the tools and PPE better than we had it where we can. And yet, teach them the old paths and old ways so they can know.

Protect them, they are an awesome investment, so that they can work another day.

 

[Wortown Mick]

Yeah, deafness is a wave off. Wave off speaking people for the rest of your life. Unless you learn to read lips, when you should have read the manual.

Proper eye protection while operating a chipper, what do the manufacturers know, what does OSHA know, scraped cornea are a cheap and easy fix.



I'm guessing this is not actually a quote from one of the United States founding fathers, your Constitution, Bill of Rights, or Supreme Court.

In fact, I'm guessing lame anwar losers.

----------------------------

newb,

You did the right thing.


RedlineIt

I have NEVER been hit in the face, let alone the eye with a wood chip flying out of a chipper while I was operating it. Ive only been hit with chips when I was taking a piss in the back of the truck and the other groundie ran a little branch through to get me, I told him I was takin a leak and not to chip

Ive been hit in the face with brush jumping around / twisting and I suppose it could cause injury.
So about how far away can you tell if somones wearing earplugs?

My point is the clear and present danger of a chipper is being chipped.
PPE doesnt stand a chance.


As far as calling the cops goes, its was just such a bonehead move.. Something a little old lady with 17 cats and not a self respecting grown man would do without damn good reason. Im afraid a couple kids that were actually outside, and not playing video games, let alone WORKING without some brain buckets, does not merit a 911 call.

As far as that quote, its actually mafia related.. Omerta.
Anwar losers? Arctic national wildlife refuge? Anti-War?

The other part of the quote is "for a wounded man shall say to his assailant " If I live, I will kill you. But if I die, you are forgiven. Such is the rule of honor"

Basicly means keep your mouth shut and dont talk to police, town officials, anyone official, take care of your own problems. Like a man


So does he get paid for occupational safety?
Like I said earlier, the fact that guy even went to his customers house not to do or bid work but to snoop on another company and report them..
I hope he drove a lettered vehicle and that guy saw hisr company name so he can catch a beating or have some gear or saws fall off his truck.
Not speaking to the guy first = spineless

 

[Wortown Mick]

I've got my 10 year old in training on side jobs with all the PPE. He wears it like a badge.

He won't be feeding any chippers any time soon though. There is plenty else for him to do and master first.

I would have rather confronted the man first...alone. Then maybe, I would have taken someone with me if he wouldn't hear me. (in this case, the caller)

The law would have been a last resort for me too, but I'm not judging....if you aren't comfortable with confrontation at least you know that no kid became chipper fodder on your watch. That's enough....and far more important than anyone's feelings on whether you did the right thing or not.

When someone takes a group of kids out in public, work or play, and puts them in harms way, they are opening themselves up for honest community concern. There is nothing wrong with that, community concern, provided it stays in bounds.

Put the kids to work, you bet, but give them the tools and PPE better than we had it where we can. And yet, teach them the old paths and old ways so they can know.

Protect them, they are an awesome investment, so that they can work another day.

Short of tethering a kid 3 feet away from the edge of the infeed chute no amount of PPE will prevent a kid from being chipper fodder if they start getting fed.
Thats fact.

 

[reachtreeservi]

Like I said earlier, the fact that guy even went to his customers house not to do or bid work but to snoop on another company and report them..
I hope he drove a lettered vehicle and that guy saw hisr company name so he can catch a beating or have some gear or saws fall off his truck.
Not speaking to the guy first = spineless

I agree that calling the law instead of talking to a treeman is spineless.

I also think that stealing gear or saws off another treeman is worse than spineless.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Short of tethering a kid 3 feet away from the edge of the infeed chute no amount of PPE will prevent a kid from being chipper fodder if they start getting fed.
Thats fact.

I never said PPE would save a kid from getting fed. That is why mine isn't running a chipper.

At any rate, that's not what the PPE is for. There are other hazards, if indeed unbeknownst to you.

That's fact.

BTW, your anarchist rant is so naive, juvenile, and so safe considering all that surrounds you.

I can understand your feelings about calling the law first, but total disregard for the law, especially with your projection of messing with another man’s vehicle and property, I find both cowardly and hypocritical.

I suppose anarchy is only fun to the novice when he is not the victim.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

I have NEVER been hit in the face, let alone the eye with a wood chip flying out of a chipper while I was operating it. Ive only been hit with chips when I was taking a piss in the back of the truck and the other groundie ran a little branch through to get me, I told him I was takin a leak and not to chip

Ive been hit in the face with brush jumping around / twisting and I suppose it could cause injury.
So about how far away can you tell if somones wearing earplugs?

My point is the clear and present danger of a chipper is being chipped.
PPE doesnt stand a chance.


As far as calling the cops goes, its was just such a bonehead move.. Something a little old lady with 17 cats and not a self respecting grown man would do without damn good reason. Im afraid a couple kids that were actually outside, and not playing video games, let alone WORKING without some brain buckets, does not merit a 911 call.

As far as that quote, its actually mafia related.. Omerta.
Anwar losers? Arctic national wildlife refuge? Anti-War?

The other part of the quote is "for a wounded man shall say to his assailant " If I live, I will kill you. But if I die, you are forgiven. Such is the rule of honor"

Basicly means keep your mouth shut and dont talk to police, town officials, anyone official, take care of your own problems. Like a man


So does he get paid for occupational safety?
Like I said earlier, the fact that guy even went to his customers house not to do or bid work but to snoop on another company and report them..
I hope he drove a lettered vehicle and that guy saw hisr company name so he can catch a beating or have some gear or saws fall off his truck.
Not speaking to the guy first = spineless

1) I have been hit in the face and chest plenty. Worst was by a 20 inch being fed by a excavator. I had a face screen and the piece still broke my lip. Been hit by branches ALOT while they kick around being fed in. When chipping dead stuff there is so much dust, eye protection is a must or you end up chipping with your eyes half closed-not good.

2) If the guy had been doing trees for 20 years, approaching him would have not achieved ANYTHING aside from getting him angry. Guys hate it when told how to do there job (especially from their competition) or how to treat their kids. It doesnt matter for what reason or how stupid they are obviously being. He was puting his kids in danger and causing them harm due to his own ignorance. Only the law was going to have an influence on his actions. Its not spineless, it was smart.

A few years back while on a quote I found the home owner cutting old asbestos sheets with a skil saw with his son holding one end, both in a cloud of dust. I asked as nicely as I could that he was doing a good job but if he thought puting on masks would be a good idea, and I had a couple in the truck he and his son was very welcome to use for nothing. "F$$$ off you nosey ^unt." was his answer.
"Fine" says I, so I go to the house and talk to his wife, explain what it was like to watch a family friend die from mesothelioma (form of lung cancer) and left the scene with her tearing ten types of heck out of him.
A few month back I was at a friends house warming and bumped into him, we didnt recognise each other and started yarning. Nice guy, loves his kids, his 2 dogs and motorcycles. It wasnt until he pointed out his wife I relised who he was. He didnt click to who I was at all, and I certainly didnt bring it up. I asked my friends about him and hes a regular, reasonable, good guy. BUT OFTEN YOU CANT TELL A GUY HOW TO DO HIS JOB OR HOW TO TREAT HIS KIDS AND EXPECT HIM TO TAKE IT REASONABLY.

He had the choice to do something to lessen then risk to those kids, or do nothing. He did the only think that was likely to achieve anything positive, and calling the law was the only thing that was likely to change the situation. Great work man!

 

[RedlineIt]

Ive been hit in the face with brush jumping around / twisting and I suppose it could cause injury.

You're an adult, or nearly so.

In the adult world, we don't suppose. We sit down around tables and discuss accident reports of lost eyeballs, lacerated eyeballs, how they were plucked out, depths of laceration, percentage of permanent vision loss, costs of restoring some vision, how to prevent recurrence.

My point is the clear and present danger of a chipper is being chipped.

Or deafness. Or blindness. Teeth knocked out. Concussion.
------------------------

Omerta? Should have known. Boys club rules set up to keep the members solidly outside of the law. A false machismo, peer pressure similarly found in the Hell's Angels, drug gangs from M-13 to a group of punks in Mendocino, and enforced on every frat plebe since before Senator Kennedy's liver turned green.

Operating outside the law, or taking the law into one's own hands, neither of these are rational choices for an adult member of a properly functioning society. Lawlessness is for those who wish for society to break down, vigilantism is for those who have seen it's collapse.

When children are at risk...I have no problem with calling a cop.


RedlineIt

 

[glenn31792]

Glad I was a kid so many years ago. Wouldn't trade doing all that
dangerous sh** for anything. Driving tractors, compactors and
forklifts was fun. The jackhammer in 8th grade was a bit heavy
but it was fun cracking up those sidewalks.
Maybe that guy knows his kids ability better than you, then again
he may not. I wonder how little time his kids sit playing with the
play station 3?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

PPE, chipper use and child labor are 3 different problems.

It was not too long ago that we had an adult sucked into a chipper because he did not properly respect the machine. Kids are constitutionally incapable of knowing cause an effect.

If it were on his own land it would be a different thing, e.g. working the farm; but this is residential, for hire work.

I find it ironic that some of those who scream the loudest about use of illegal migrant labor find nothing wrong with illegal child labor.

Lastly I think these things reflect poorly on the industry, one more instance where it proves to the world that we are not professionals, but general labor one step above thrash pickers because we have a few more tools.

PPS, I know the type of operations in Pete's area. For the most part they will not do the work if they cannot back the bucket onto the tree and hack off everything above them. You drive through Iron Ridge, Horicon, Theresa (all 400-1000 people strong) and surrounding areas and it seems every other house has a tr4ee that's been topped in the past 5 years.

 

[newb]

Thanks John, And those that are in my corner. Its been interesting reading the comments. I know how I run my business. Its interesting that those who are afraid to list their town or real name are the ones who yelled the loudest about my manhood. Reading those comments by someone who themselves are hiding behind the curtain are an interesting look into how they run their operations. The comp I turned in knows it was me, knows where I live, and knows where I park my equipment. Like I said I didn't need to talk to him but I couldn't live with myself if those kids got hurt and I did nothing. Pete

 

[tree MDS]

I have NEVER been hit in the face, let alone the eye with a wood chip flying out of a chipper while I was operating it. Ive only been hit with chips when I was taking a piss in the back of the truck and the other groundie ran a little branch through to get me, I told him I was takin a leak and not to chip

Ive been hit in the face with brush jumping around / twisting and I suppose it could cause injury.
So about how far away can you tell if somones wearing earplugs?

My point is the clear and present danger of a chipper is being chipped.
PPE doesnt stand a chance.


As far as calling the cops goes, its was just such a bonehead move.. Something a little old lady with 17 cats and not a self respecting grown man would do without damn good reason. Im afraid a couple kids that were actually outside, and not playing video games, let alone WORKING without some brain buckets, does not merit a 911 call.

As far as that quote, its actually mafia related.. Omerta.
Anwar losers? Arctic national wildlife refuge? Anti-War?

The other part of the quote is "for a wounded man shall say to his assailant " If I live, I will kill you. But if I die, you are forgiven. Such is the rule of honor"

Basicly means keep your mouth shut and dont talk to police, town officials, anyone official, take care of your own problems. Like a man


So does he get paid for occupational safety?
Like I said earlier, the fact that guy even went to his customers house not to do or bid work but to snoop on another company and report them..
I hope he drove a lettered vehicle and that guy saw hisr company name so he can catch a beating or have some gear or saws fall off his truck.
Not speaking to the guy first = spineless

Just for the record (and no I havent finished reading this thread), based solely on this post, I like this guy, lol. I'm giving rep!

 

[tree MDS]

You're an adult, or nearly so.

In the adult world, we don't suppose. We sit down around tables and discuss accident reports of lost eyeballs, lacerated eyeballs, how they were plucked out, depths of laceration, percentage of permanent vision loss, costs of restoring some vision, how to prevent recurrence.



Or deafness. Or blindness. Teeth knocked out. Concussion.
------------------------

Omerta? Should have known. Boys club rules set up to keep the members solidly outside of the law. A false machismo, peer pressure similarly found in the Hell's Angels, drug gangs from M-13 to a group of punks in Mendocino, and enforced on every frat plebe since before Senator Kennedy's liver turned green.

Operating outside the law, or taking the law into one's own hands, neither of these are rational choices for an adult member of a properly functioning society. Lawlessness is for those who wish for society to break down, vigilantism is for those who have seen it's collapse.

When children are at risk...I have no problem with calling a cop.


RedlineIt

Some good points indeed- still I have to wonder exactly what new b's core motivations actually were with regards to turning in the "competion"??

 

[tree MDS]

I agree that calling the law instead of talking to a treeman is spineless.

I also think that stealing gear or saws off another treeman is worse than spineless.

I actually agree with you for once reach. Where the hell do all those FN stars come from?? What is there some sort of secret kiss A$$ club or something?? lol.