Unsharp chains

[Andyshine77]

I'd venture to say that a light pass is taking off only a few thousandths of an inch and 0.005" is as heavy as I'd want to take on one pass.

.005" with a grinder isn't going to happen. Sorry but it sounds like you've never been around a machine shop or machinist much. These grinders have way more play than .005" you'd be lucky to see less than .020" and that would be one hell of a grinder.

 

[tolman_paul]

.005" with a grinder isn't going to happen. Sorry but it sounds like you've never been around a machine shop or machinist much. These grinders have way more play than .005" you'd be lockuy to see less than .020" and that would be one hell of a grinder.

You would be mistaken both in my background and experience. Yes, the grinders have slop in them, but that doesn't mean that one can't take a light cut. If you pull grinder in the same direction with the same force on each pass the issue of slop has been compensated for. Just as one can do suprisingly precise work on a lathe or mill that has slop in their lead srews if one accounts for the slop in how one opperates the machine.

The depth of cut is based on how the chain stop is adjusted. Adjust the stop so that the grinder wheel just takes barely touches the chain and you'll take a light cut. I haven't checked the thread pitch on the stop screw on the chain vise but it's probably in the ballpark of 28 tpi. That's 0.036" advancement per rotation, or 0.001" per 10 degrees of rotation. One does not need a vernier reading on the thumbwheel to be able to discern +/- 10 degrees, or 50 degrees for 0.005" advancement. Thus advancing the stop screw a simple 1/4 turn will yield a 0.006" cut.

The key is knowing the difference between precise work and precision tools. A precision tool does not gurantee precise work, nor is precise work the sole providence of the precision tool.

 

[Deerhunterguns]

I always hand file my cutters, but if my depth gauges need taken down a bit I like to use my dremel with a grinding stone, it works pretty well!

 

[Andyshine77]

You would be mistaken both in my background and experience. Yes, the grinders have slop in them, but that doesn't mean that one can't take a light cut. If you pull grinder in the same direction with the same force on each pass the issue of slop has been compensated for. Just as one can do suprisingly precise work on a lathe or mill that has slop in their lead srews if one accounts for the slop in how one opperates the machine.

Slop that is consistent can be worked around.

The depth of cut is based on how the chain stop is adjusted. Adjust the stop so that the grinder wheel just takes barely touches the chain and you'll take a light cut. I haven't checked the thread pitch on the stop screw on the chain vise but it's probably in the ballpark of 28 tpi. That's 0.036" advancement per rotation, or 0.001" per 10 degrees of rotation. One does not need a vernier reading on the thumbwheel to be able to discern +/- 10 degrees, or 50 degrees for 0.005" advancement. Thus advancing the stop screw a simple 1/4 turn will yield a 0.006" cut.

The key is knowing the difference between precise work and precision tools. A precision tool does not gurantee precise work, nor is precise work the sole providence of the precision tool.

The arm on the grinders I've used all flexed, so the stop really didn't help much, even with a lite touch the arm bended. You've actually said what I've been saying all along, these cheap $300.00 $400.00 grinders take more time to setup and learn how to use, than they're worth for the normal firewood cutter. I also know the machinists mind, free handing anything, seems to goes against their nature, so free hand filing isn't their cup of tea.

 

[Trx250r180]

does anyone round grind ,then a swipe or 2 with a file to clean up the tooth edge ?

 

[mdavlee]

.005" with a grinder isn't going to happen. Sorry but it sounds like you've never been around a machine shop or machinist much. These grinders have way more play than .005" you'd be lucky to see less than .020" and that would be one hell of a grinder.

I've got a silvey with srcarrs roller bearings and it is tight enough to do less than .020". I can probably get it to less than .010". I know it's not the norm but there is grinders out there that will do it. They're just not in the sub $1k category.:beer:

 

[w8ye]

Start measuring on a new Oregon chain. You'll be lucky to find the teeth on the same side to be within .020"

When you measure the other side, it could be much more?

 

[Andyshine77]

I've got a silvey with srcarrs roller bearings and it is tight enough to do less than .020". I can probably get it to less than .010". I know it's not the norm but there is grinders out there that will do it. They're just not in the sub $1k category.:beer:

Correct.:msp_smile:

 

[mdavlee]

Any one out there with the RS II should do the upgrade

 

[Andyshine77]

Any one out there with the RS II should do the upgrade

That's a slick setup, I'll end up getting one someday.

 

[mdavlee]

The old setup on mine probably had 1/8" slop before I swapped it out.

 

[bcaarms]

The arm on the grinders I've used all flexed, so the stop really didn't help much, even with a lite touch the arm bended. You've actually said what I've been saying all along, these cheap $300.00 $400.00 grinders take more time to setup and learn how to use, than they're worth for the normal firewood cutter. I also know the machinists mind, free handing anything, seems to goes against their nature, so free hand filing isn't their cup of tea.

I have a Timber Tuff that cost a whopping $146. I am fairly strong, and I cannot bend the arm on it without breaking something first. My grinder took me approximately 30 minutes to set up. I watched a video on You Tube by a normal everyday guy show how to sharpen a chain using a Harbor Freight grinder. I do not dress any wheel as I decided to go with a CBN wheel. If I have several chains I sharpen all chains on one side, then go to the other side. First touch on new chain is with grinder off to be sure its not hitting the tooth too hard.
Im not a racer, but I will keep my own against any of the saws I have seen on AS. I know my saws are strong. The chain is sharp enough for me. I just need to let the saw and chain do the work. Even with my tlandrum ported 385 I can bog it by forcing things. If I just manage the power and chain load it will cut fast enough to make the person beating me to have a very good run in order to do it. Like my team sergeant told me long ago, it's the Indian not the arrow.

 

[Andyshine77]

Glad your setup is working for you.

 

[lambs]

You would be mistaken both in my background and experience. Yes, the grinders have slop in them, but that doesn't mean that one can't take a light cut. If you pull grinder in the same direction with the same force on each pass the issue of slop has been compensated for. Just as one can do suprisingly precise work on a lathe or mill that has slop in their lead srews if one accounts for the slop in how one opperates the machine.

The depth of cut is based on how the chain stop is adjusted. Adjust the stop so that the grinder wheel just takes barely touches the chain and you'll take a light cut. I haven't checked the thread pitch on the stop screw on the chain vise but it's probably in the ballpark of 28 tpi. That's 0.036" advancement per rotation, or 0.001" per 10 degrees of rotation. One does not need a vernier reading on the thumbwheel to be able to discern +/- 10 degrees, or 50 degrees for 0.005" advancement. Thus advancing the stop screw a simple 1/4 turn will yield a 0.006" cut.

The key is knowing the difference between precise work and precision tools. A precision tool does not gurantee precise work, nor is precise work the sole providence of the precision tool.

Wow, thanks for that information. I was intuitively adjusting my chain stop a quarter turn at a time, and now I know why that seemed about right. I adjust a quarter turn each time around the chain until I can see the shiny resurfaced face of the cutters, all the way across them. I check with a tiny LED flashlight. I do not think that is grinding too much. I've also noticed that after I grind one side of cutters, if I make another lap around the chain on that side, the grinder (CBN wheel) will barely nick any of the cutters. So although there may be some flex in the equipment, a smooth consistent operator can do a pretty good job with it.

I also think a heavy handed operator can get some pretty poor results with either a grinder or a file. It all depends on technique and patience in my opinion.

Disclaimer: I think I'm probably a novice filer at best, so to me the grinder is an obvious choice. I probably have 15 chains in the shop right now waiting to be sharpened before the cutting season. I ain't gonna use a file.

 

[7sleeper]

I wonder if enyone could ever statistically prove that all these more perfect ground chains would be any faster than non perfect ground chains..... Why isn't anyone using a diamond coated file here? You are more or less just polishing the surface compared to a steel file! That is really sharp.

7

 

[Philbert]

I wonder if enyone could ever statistically prove that all these more perfect ground chains would be any faster than non perfect ground chains.....

It could be evaluated under test conditions, and I assume that engineers with the major chain manufacturers have tested all kinds of variations, as well as some of the racers.

I know woodworkers who polish the backs of their chisels and plane irons to a mirror finish, but they aren't chipping through wood, and bark, and knots at 60 miles per hour.

I have heard guys at GTG talk about wet stoning the sides of thier chains for competition. For general cutting I want an edge that is easy to maintain, and I am willing to trade off some speed for an edge that holds up (e.g. semi-chisel chain with maybe a steeper edge: 30/55/0).

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

P.S. what happened with the OP and the dealer?

 

[Andyshine77]

Wow, thanks for that information. I was intuitively adjusting my chain stop a quarter turn at a time, and now I know why that seemed about right. I adjust a quarter turn each time around the chain until I can see the shiny resurfaced face of the cutters, all the way across them. I check with a tiny LED flashlight. I do not think that is grinding too much. I've also noticed that after I grind one side of cutters, if I make another lap around the chain on that side, the grinder (CBN wheel) will barely nick any of the cutters. So although there may be some flex in the equipment, a smooth consistent operator can do a pretty good job with it.



I also think a heavy handed operator can get some pretty poor results with either a grinder or a file. It all depends on technique and patience in my opinion.



Disclaimer: I think I'm probably a novice filer at best, so to me the grinder is an obvious choice. I probably have 15 chains in the shop right now waiting to be sharpened before the cutting season. I ain't gonna use a file.

15 chains is a lot. However learning how to hand file gives you a better of how the cutters work.

 

[Andyshine77]

P.S. what happened with the OP and the dealer?

there was an OP??

 

[lambs]

I wonder if enyone could ever statistically prove that all these more perfect ground chains would be any faster than non perfect ground chains..... Why isn't anyone using a diamond coated file here? You are more or less just polishing the surface compared to a steel file! That is really sharp.

7

Diamond coated and chainsaw cutters do not play well together. Otherwise, believe me we'd all be trying them!

But I don't know how you could prove anything statistically. Lots of variables. Mostly, we just all have fun sorting it out and comparing notes. I don't go for perfection, but I do admit I use a digital angle finder to check the drop on my depth gauges :msp_biggrin: This isn't perfect either, but if you figure out where your saw likes them set it will sure put a grin on your face.