Upgrades to Echo CS-590

[JackJ]

I'm looking for a new ~60cc saw to tackle some big oaks and maples that would be too much of a challenge for my 20 year old Stihl 025. $400 is about my limit, and I don't feel comfortable evaluating used saws, so I'm thinking the Echo Timberwolf is what I'm after. Clearly not the greatest 60cc saw, but seems to be the best value, and I've got a local dealer that I feel pretty good about, though I've only been in the shop twice.

I'll get it with the 20" bar and run it stock initially, but will probably eventually remove the carb limiters and do a muffler mod. My one concern is that there are very few accessories (bars, chains, sprockets) listed for this saw. I realize it's fairly new, but I'm wondering if there's anything about it that would limit future upgrades. Is there anything different about the bar mount or oil systems compared to the other 59cc Echos? Anything I need to watch out for in getting aftermarket accessories?

 

[Andyshine77]

Bars and are widely available for the 590 that will never be an issue. The most important aspect to most non enthusiasts, is keeping your chain properly sharpened. A good mm and the 590 really wakes these saws up, I wouldn't wait to open the muffler up.

What size are the trees you're cutting?

 

[Big Block]

It's a great saw opened up. Like Andre said don't wait to MM and delete the limiters. It makes a huge difference so does a base gasket delete if you have the aptitude. That saw oils like the exxon Valdez so no worries there.

 

[Big Block]

Check out this thread.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/15-echo-cs620pw-information.278407/
The best echo 590/600/620 thread around.
The best 6 series saw mods and videos Andre's saw is in there somewhere and a mild muff mod takes all of 15 minutes bud

 

[Conquistador3]

That saw here goes for about 700€... putting it in the same ballpark as the Dolmar PS 6100 and the Stihl MS 311. Yes, saws are that expensive here.

Honestly I can say the old Echo chainsaws I had were nigh on bulletproof and lasted far longer than they should have, especially considering the abuse they took. I have a lot of other Echo products in the house and I cannot praise them highly enough.

 

[drf255]

Ok, I'm gonna be that guy.

Keep the 025 and buy a used 044 from a reputable seller here. There are some listed for around $400 right now.

Noone here sells crap.

"Big oaks and Maples" and a garden variety 60cc saw don't mix well.

With an 044, you can add a 28" and do most anything. Then walk around with the 025 for limbing.

Just sayin. You'll be a happier man in the end. And, after you tackle your project, you could sell it for the same price.

 

[Cliff R]

For sure remove the limiter caps before you use the saw. I'm a big Echo fan, and own a lot of their equipment. Haven't ran into a piece of Echo power equipment yet that didn't REQUIRE adding some fuel to get it up to par. The factory simply sets them way too lean to make the EPA happy.

Some of their equipment is also difficult to adjust as they hide the carb adjustment screws under plastic caps. Just fixed one of their leaf blowers and it took a while to find the adjustment screw, it was very well hidden under a plastic drive in plug that had to be carefully drilled out to remove it.

Anyhow, I don't have any direct experience with that particular saw, but I'll be it will be a good runner once you throw some fuel at it......Cliff

 

[mountainlake]

Plus the muff deflector a opening about the size of a pea, open that up for sure. Steve

 

[jr27236]

The one big plus in buying the Echo is the 5 year consumer warranty, so making the mods will void your warranty, unless the dealer you bought it from is on board and may turn a blind eye in the event it craps out. That's why I like no warranty used saws that I can mod and remod till my hearts content

 

[Cliff R]

Warranty or not, at a minimum remove the limiter caps and fatten up the A/F ratio some, or you'll likely smoke the P/C, and even if you do not, the saw will likely be down on power, and not work well at all till it's full warmed up.

I do minimal mods to Echo saws/power equipment all the time in the shop, and have NEVER once had one have any issues related to the P/C, or anything else that would have them need a trip to a dealer for a Warranty issue. To be real honest, some of their stuff will NOT run right out of the box, difficult to start/keep running, woln't idle well, and hesitate/stumble until fully warmed up, and even then they are not fully up to par (too lean).

Even with that said, I do NOT make any other modifications beyond removing limiter caps and correctly setting the mixture screws......except for a few specific models with CAT's in the mufflers, I'll remove them and open up the exit port just a tad. .....Cliff

 

[mountainlake]

It's really unlikely it will crap out if tuned right but if it did one could get a new muff deflector before taking it in, with the limiter caps pull them off adjust properly and reinstall them without grinding the tabs off. Steve

 

[JackJ]

Thanks for all the advice. I was under the impression that I wouldn't need to remove the limiters unless I was doing a mm. I know there are EPA mandates at play here, but it's still surprising that a major manufacturer would sell saws through big box stores that are sometimes set so lean that they won't run well or live long, especially while offering a 5 yr warranty. That said, I respect the opinions I'm hearing, and would much prefer to err on the side of a rich mix with a slight power compromise over a ratio that threatens the lubrication.

So the limiters will come off right away. I asked the dealer (not a big box store--it's a Husky/Echo shop that services many of the pros in the area) about this, and he indicated that they might even be able to remove them for me while still honoring the warranty. I mentioned muffler mods, too, but that seemed off the table, not surprisingly. He had good things to say about the 590, and also recommended the Husky 460 Rancher in that price/displacement. But the Echo seems to be a bit higher value from the research I've done--closer to a pro saw build, especially once the bar/chain/sprocket get upgraded (which I'd do only after the original parts wear out).

It's tempting to step up to the 70cc class in a used saw. And my guess is that I may eventually, now that I'm in this AS rabbit hole. But honestly, I know I'll be content with how a 60cc cuts for the majority of what I do. My little 45cc 025 with an 18" bar has been quite capable, even though I sometimes push it outside of its comfort zone. I'm diligent about keeping my chain sharp, at least.

The trees that are making me want a little more are a 24" maple and a few 20" maples and red oaks.

Thanks again for all the input.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

for the time being i would pull the limiters i only modded the factory deflector when i had mine.Later on if you want to you can add a unlimited coil from a cs 620 the original coil is limited.

 

[Rockjock]

Thanks for all the advice. I was under the impression that I wouldn't need to remove the limiters unless I was doing a mm. I know there are EPA mandates at play here, but it's still surprising that a major manufacturer would sell saws through big box stores that are sometimes set so lean that they won't run well or live long, especially while offering a 5 yr warranty. That said, I respect the opinions I'm hearing, and would much prefer to err on the side of a rich mix with a slight power compromise over a ratio that threatens the lubrication.

So the limiters will come off right away. I asked the dealer (not a big box store--it's a Husky/Echo shop that services many of the pros in the area) about this, and he indicated that they might even be able to remove them for me while still honoring the warranty. I mentioned muffler mods, too, but that seemed off the table, not surprisingly. He had good things to say about the 590, and also recommended the Husky 460 Rancher in that price/displacement. But the Echo seems to be a bit higher value from the research I've done--closer to a pro saw build, especially once the bar/chain/sprocket get upgraded (which I'd do only after the original parts wear out).

It's tempting to step up to the 70cc class in a used saw. And my guess is that I may eventually, now that I'm in this AS rabbit hole. But honestly, I know I'll be content with how a 60cc cuts for the majority of what I do. My little 45cc 025 with an 18" bar has been quite capable, even though I sometimes push it outside of its comfort zone. I'm diligent about keeping my chain sharp, at least.

The trees that are making me want a little more are a 24" maple and a few 20" maples and red oaks.

Thanks again for all the input.

I would not worry to much if you leave the limiters in place. People love to spout their beliefs here with little thought. I come from a country where saws are not modified and yet I can show hundreds of examples of stock saws lasting 20 years plus with no issues. While in Germany I saw very few echos saws there for lack of dealer support. Here in Ontario Canada it is much the same. No dealer presence and the few times I have had the pleasure of working on a 590 it has been a waiting game for parts( The customer uses my MS270 loaner saw and are not in much of a hurry to come and collect the 590 most times, to be fair it has a sharp chain, and is tuned to stock specs. If I were to muffler mod it and retune it I think they would let thier saw sit with me even longer ) . I have customers come in with china engine OPE and it seldom ends well either. A bloke just gave you sage advice.. get an 044 and never look back.

 

[mountainlake]

Herein the US most Echo saws come lean and will burn up in a long hard cut, no way would I run one without tuning.. There's a vid on youtube, the CS590 cuts almost twice as fast as a MS270. Steve

 

[Rockjock]

Herein the US most Echo saws come lean and will burn up in a long hard cut, no way would I run one without tuning.. There's a vid on youtube, the CS590 cuts almost twice as fast as a MS270. Steve

So let me understand this. Right out of the box the saw will blow up in a long cut? Really? They are that bad out of the box? The 270 was a loaner and the guy did say he liked it very much. I suppose something can be said about being reliable right out the box.

 

[Big Block]

 

[jacobmc]

Put a 14in bar on the 25 and it will help...18 is to much

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Rockjock]

Put a 14in bar on the 25 and it will help...18 is to much

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I find they do well with a 16" B&C they also like the muffler mod as well.

 

[Cliff R]

Echo sets them lean to meet EPA regulations in place at the time, no big secret there. They also expect a given percentage of these saws to smoke the P/C (was told this by one of their employees who works at a warranty repair location). Problem is the Echo and the EPA don't have the first CLUE as to where the saw is going to be used, typical weather, altitude, density altitude, air quality and even more important fuel quality. For example 10 percent ethanol fuel doesn't contain the same energy as non-ethanol fuel of the same grade, and it will require about 5 percent more of it to do the same amount of work. So a chain saw delivered to a cool/cold climate where the fuel doesn't contain ethanol will require a different carb setting than one delivered to a hot-humid climate where the fuel does contain ethanol, for example. Even a saw used in the same basic location/climate will benefit from some minor custom tuning as the seasons change and DA changes with them.

For these reasons is it not an option to set the carburetor once they reach their final destination and are placed in service. Muffler "mods" on the other hand are completely optional. I have scores of later production chain saws in service w/o any muffler mods at all and they are fine. I hesitate to do any muffler modifications on most saws without some direct testing involved. Opened up mufflers can do nothing more than increase noise level, and not increase engine power in the least. A guy really needs to sneak up on those things and do some timed cuts and custom tuning along the way to see if you are really helping the saw out, or just pissing off the neighbors because it's tens times louder than it needs to be.

Anyhow, as far as this topic is concerned, I could list dozens of DIRECT experiences here where saws (and other power equipment) showed up at the shop running poorly. Echo is not alone in this deal, but seem to be set leaner than the other big names as a general rule....FWIW.....Cliff