jacobmc
ArboristSite Lurker
I just got a 590 a week ago to try out for a ground saw and I am super impressed with it..I'm going to drop down to a 18in bar
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Upgrades to Echo CS-590
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Rockjock
Addicted to ArboristSite
Cliff makes some interesting points but actually Echo does know where the saw will be used, as does Stihl, As does Husqvarna. They know where thy ship the saws to, so what they do is some product research. So they send a saw to me in Toronto , then one to fritz in Stuttgart and one to Bubba in Pensacola we all tune our saws and report back, the fuel we used, the carb setting air temp.. then the saw makers average out those numbers and then tell us here guys set your saws this way and we try them again and again. You think the saw makers do not have atmospheric chambers? I can tell you for a fact that Stihl and Husqvarna have one. Then there is outside testing, failure analysis, etc.. If a company is serious they do through all these processes. I just can not believe that any company would give a 5 year warranty knowing that walter woodcutter is going to blow his saw up in a long cut. They would go out of business. Aso my point of the muffler mod was not for performance per say.. I have an 025 that has cut a great deal of wood and still runs strong. I removed the muffler to check the spark screen and saw the opening was large, looked at my MS 250 and saw they were very different. Muffler wise. SO I just opened up the muffler as much as my 025, re tune and I am hopeful the bloke I sold it to has as many trouble free years as me.. I will look for pics later.
It's completely IMPOSSIBLE to know where a saw is going to end up at, or what fuel it's going to get, type of oil mix, etc. Currently there are several thousand Stihl, Husqvarna and Echo saws on Ebay, new, in the box, and they could end up anywhere I the World after the auctions have ended.
Here is a classic example of what can happen when you buy a new saw, in the box. Couple of years ago I bought an Echo CS-400 off Ebay. It was a bit difficult to get going and absolutely would NOT stay running as set from the factory. I even kept the choke part way on, then tried and tried to get it to idle and make a cut, but no dice. It just wasn't going to work, even fully up to temp and heat soaked it stalled out in the cut. A few minutes with a drywall screw and pulling the limiter caps was all that was needed. I fine tuned the L and H screws and it was FLAWLESS, and still is today.
So, jump ahead to this year, my veterinarian and good friend brings his brand new Home Depot CS-400 over because it doesn't work to his satisfaction. It was only a tad better than the one I purchased several years earlier, extremely "cold blooded", wouldn't even try to stay running till fully warmed up, and still stalled out in the cut.
I went one step further with his, removed the limiter caps and did a muffler mod, and it was absolutely and positive a 100 percent improvement for that saw. He just happened to show up today to borrow my wood splitter, months later, and still commented on how well his CS-400 runs after the mods.
Anyhow, I do this stuff for a living, and no one is going to come on here and tell me that these saws are "spot-on" right out of the box, and don't respond well to some minor tuning. If you really believe that, you'll most likely find out how well their 5 year warranty really is......IMHO......Cliff
Here is a classic example of what can happen when you buy a new saw, in the box. Couple of years ago I bought an Echo CS-400 off Ebay. It was a bit difficult to get going and absolutely would NOT stay running as set from the factory. I even kept the choke part way on, then tried and tried to get it to idle and make a cut, but no dice. It just wasn't going to work, even fully up to temp and heat soaked it stalled out in the cut. A few minutes with a drywall screw and pulling the limiter caps was all that was needed. I fine tuned the L and H screws and it was FLAWLESS, and still is today.
So, jump ahead to this year, my veterinarian and good friend brings his brand new Home Depot CS-400 over because it doesn't work to his satisfaction. It was only a tad better than the one I purchased several years earlier, extremely "cold blooded", wouldn't even try to stay running till fully warmed up, and still stalled out in the cut.
I went one step further with his, removed the limiter caps and did a muffler mod, and it was absolutely and positive a 100 percent improvement for that saw. He just happened to show up today to borrow my wood splitter, months later, and still commented on how well his CS-400 runs after the mods.
Anyhow, I do this stuff for a living, and no one is going to come on here and tell me that these saws are "spot-on" right out of the box, and don't respond well to some minor tuning. If you really believe that, you'll most likely find out how well their 5 year warranty really is......IMHO......Cliff
Rockjock
Addicted to ArboristSite
So let me understand this. You bought a Echo saw and it was garbage until you adjusted it. The you had another person buy an other echo saw and it too was garbage until it was also adjusted. I may add you took the persons 5 year warranty and flushed it down the toilet. 2 echos both garbage, then someone posts that they must be adjusted or they will burn up. The pattern I see here is they are garbage unless a highly skilled person like yourself gets it dialed in.
My dear friend it is clear to me that you do not know how mass manufacturing works. When a saw is made it is tuned within certain specs. I have worked on many saws that have the limiters in place an that are used year round. So how is this done? Well some very highly educated people take said saws and place them in a climate controlled chamber and run them at different temps. These saws have all sorts of sensors on them, the exhaust fumes are analyzed adjustments are made different grades of fuel, humidity, air temp etc are all factors in the base settings they use. Now I agree with you that it is not spot on. BUT it is in the safe parameter to get that saw running and cutting wood. . If I was to use your logic then every single saw I sell runs like garbage unless I adjust it. Since the Husqvarna is made in Sweden and it is much much colder there than say Texas does that mean they too must be re tuned since they will run like garbage? I think we all know the answer to that. Look at a Stihl box, notice the different languages on the box? Yes that product works in all those countries.
But since you do this for a living I suggest you head over to echo with your drywall screw and show them how it is done properly.
Bottom line here folks, if you want the very best from your new Echo chainsaw, be prepared to fine tune it. If doing this is beyond your scope of capabilities, find someone who can. I can tell you for certain I've worked on more of these saws than most folks who will read this, and am very fond of Echo power equipment. I also want the best out of it, and get long service life. I'm smart enough to know when something starts fine, idles fine, doesn't hesitate when you go quickly to full throttle, full strokes at no load, then cleans up nicely in the cut, and the limiter screws are in place, it doesn't need any additional help.
To date this has NOT been the case with any Echo saw that I've had here, new in the box, purchased used, or brought in here by a customer.
In case anyone missed it in an earlier post, we just spent some time with an Echo PB-250 leaf blower. It was purchased here locally by one of my employees. He ran it this fall and commented to me that it was EXTEMELY cold blooded and he had to run the choke partially on till it fully warmed up, and even then if he took the choke all the way off the engine slowed ever so slightly and started "gurgling" some (sound familiar?).
I told him it was lean, and just needed adjusted. To my surprise the carburetor was NOT adjustable. I commenced to take the carburetor completely apart and cleaned it out, looking for a fixed jet or some sort of adjustment, and there wasn't one to be found. We put it back together, and no change whatsoever it how it worked. I did notice a black plastic flush plug on the end of the carb, so very carefully removed it. Low and behold under that plug was an adjustment screw. A minute or so later we had the leaf blower running like it was supposed to, full rpms and "clean" exhaust note, no longer cold blooded or "gurgling" at full load/full throttle.
So once again we have another piece of power equipment that was simply WAY too lean right out of the box and required some minor fine tuning to be up to par.
I guess the engineers didn't have it in their climate controlled chamber long enough that day, or it got on the wrong truck and was shipped to Ohio instead of South Florida.....FWIW.......Cliff
To date this has NOT been the case with any Echo saw that I've had here, new in the box, purchased used, or brought in here by a customer.
In case anyone missed it in an earlier post, we just spent some time with an Echo PB-250 leaf blower. It was purchased here locally by one of my employees. He ran it this fall and commented to me that it was EXTEMELY cold blooded and he had to run the choke partially on till it fully warmed up, and even then if he took the choke all the way off the engine slowed ever so slightly and started "gurgling" some (sound familiar?).
I told him it was lean, and just needed adjusted. To my surprise the carburetor was NOT adjustable. I commenced to take the carburetor completely apart and cleaned it out, looking for a fixed jet or some sort of adjustment, and there wasn't one to be found. We put it back together, and no change whatsoever it how it worked. I did notice a black plastic flush plug on the end of the carb, so very carefully removed it. Low and behold under that plug was an adjustment screw. A minute or so later we had the leaf blower running like it was supposed to, full rpms and "clean" exhaust note, no longer cold blooded or "gurgling" at full load/full throttle.
So once again we have another piece of power equipment that was simply WAY too lean right out of the box and required some minor fine tuning to be up to par.
I guess the engineers didn't have it in their climate controlled chamber long enough that day, or it got on the wrong truck and was shipped to Ohio instead of South Florida.....FWIW.......Cliff
Rockjock
Addicted to ArboristSite
Cliff how much deeper you gonna dig the echo hole? With 1 broad brush stroke you have condemned the echo line of OPE to the scrap heap unless tuned? Clearly quitting while you are ahead is beyond you as is reading comprehension.
My employer has an Echo leaf blower that works exactly as Cliff described. Echo machines are almost always cold-blooded and set too lean out of the box. Tuning them really helps out, BUT if you're happy with it as-is, chances are better than with most makes that you can run it for 20 years with no problems. I've used and worked on my fair share of Echo machines from various time periods, and have yet to see one that came out of the box set up to fail.
Unlike some on here I can easily understand that Echo has to set their saws lean and clog up the muff to get by the EPA, if you are incapable of dealing with those 2 issues get yourself a gutless low quality MS270 .. Steve
I don't see the purpose of having these discussions if everyone really believes that all of this power equipment is up to par right out of the box, and he factory has left the owner/tuner enough room to dial in the carburetor to give the engine the fuel that it needs with the limiter caps in place. If you can deal with a piece of power equipment, Echo or anything else that runs poorly until it's fully warmed up, and even then is a bit lethargic and not making the power that it should, why even bother being a member here and reading responses from folks who know how to make them work like they are supposed to?
I recently inherited a Husqvarna leaf blower from my father-in-law and found that it was more "in range" within the limits of the factory mixture screws than the Echo leaf blowers I've worked on. I also recently worked on a newer Husqvarna 235 chainsaw and it was pretty close right out of the box. I was still able to help both of them out with a little tuning, but they would have been OK as-is and probably never had an issue with the P/C due directly to being set too lean from the factory.
Steve is correct in his earlier post about the potential of P/C damage to these saws. I have ran into a number of lean-seized Echo chainsaws, but to date haven't seen any string trimmers or leaf blowers with P/C issues directly related to running too lean. For this reason I quit buying used Echo chainsaws off of Ebay, got three in a row that had P/C damage and all had very little run time on them. In most cases if you are patient a new in the box saw can be had on Ebay for only a few dollars more than what used ones will bring, Then, IF you are educated in these things the carburetor can be set correctly before any P/C damage occurs and you'll end up with a chainsaw that will last for many years and provide impressive and reliable service.....FWIW.....Cliff
I recently inherited a Husqvarna leaf blower from my father-in-law and found that it was more "in range" within the limits of the factory mixture screws than the Echo leaf blowers I've worked on. I also recently worked on a newer Husqvarna 235 chainsaw and it was pretty close right out of the box. I was still able to help both of them out with a little tuning, but they would have been OK as-is and probably never had an issue with the P/C due directly to being set too lean from the factory.
Steve is correct in his earlier post about the potential of P/C damage to these saws. I have ran into a number of lean-seized Echo chainsaws, but to date haven't seen any string trimmers or leaf blowers with P/C issues directly related to running too lean. For this reason I quit buying used Echo chainsaws off of Ebay, got three in a row that had P/C damage and all had very little run time on them. In most cases if you are patient a new in the box saw can be had on Ebay for only a few dollars more than what used ones will bring, Then, IF you are educated in these things the carburetor can be set correctly before any P/C damage occurs and you'll end up with a chainsaw that will last for many years and provide impressive and reliable service.....FWIW.....Cliff
IF you are educated in these things the car
buretor can be set correctly before any P/C damage occurs and you'll end up with a chainsaw that will last for many years and provide impressive and reliable service.....FWIW.....Cliff
You hit the nail on the head, if you want to whine about something as simple as adjusting a carb and opening up a muff , get educated. Also if you think a MS270 is any where near as good as a CS590 you really need to get educated . Steve
buretor can be set correctly before any P/C damage occurs and you'll end up with a chainsaw that will last for many years and provide impressive and reliable service.....FWIW.....Cliff
You hit the nail on the head, if you want to whine about something as simple as adjusting a carb and opening up a muff , get educated. Also if you think a MS270 is any where near as good as a CS590 you really need to get educated . Steve
l bought a new echo 550p and removed limiters as both were set to max, however it spooled up fast and four stroked out of wood. After re-tuning I ended up exactly where l began needle position wise. Any new ope should be tuned before delivery, and the owner should include basic 2t tuning in his/her skillset. This is not rocket science here. Things and problems do get massily over exagerated on enthusiest forums like AS. Yamabiko Japan (echo) know a thing or two about building good 2T products, have done so for years. The 5 year warranty is not anywhere near as good as it sounds when you read and understand the fine print.
livemusic
ArboristSite Operative
I've read quite a bit about Echo cs-590 and then found that someone said it could be 'turned into' a 600 with some mods. And then I read that now there is a 620 that is basically the same saw just more powerful? There may have been a couple of other differences, such as less plastic. But the 620 costs, like, $250 more? sheesh. I guess the 590 would be plenty for somebody like me who just needs a reliable saw to cut some firewood and occasional downed tree.
The EPA is the main reason things are as they are here. Since I own and have owned quite a few Echo products over several decades now, I have seen them continue to make changes to their engines in search of more power, and efficiency. If you want inefficiency, pick up one of their smaller top or side handle reed valve engine models, CS-300 for example. They are underpowered, stinky, and inefficient. Echo moved on to piston ported smaller models with better success there. I have a good example with my CS-360T. It was quite lethargic right out of the box, and WAY too lean for my liking, but it did work OK within the limits of the factory caps on the L and H screws. At the stock settings it had a very annoying hesitation until fully warmed up, and even then it was BARELY acceptable from an operator standpoint. It also has an annoying rev-limiter that is reached very easily when the saw had the factory lean settings.
Removing the limiter caps was a nice improvement for that saw, but it was still "sluggish" and a bit down on power. A muffler mod was the next improvement, and low and behold I now have a really nice running top handle saw one would be proud of. It has great power for the cc's, and has been dead solid reliable now for many years. The only negative to that saw is the "bulky" design for a top handle.
Echo has been improving their offerings one by one in recent years. I've owned just about every single model that was available 10 years ago, some were strong runners, others just OK, and a couple a bit sub-standard, at least in terms of power to weight ratio. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of direct experience with the latest offerings, but am glad threads like this are running on them. I've very interested in the CS-590, CS-600, and CS-620 models, but haven't dropped the hammer on one yet simple because my line-up is quite up to par in 60cc range. I've still got my sights set on owning one, and may add one to the line-up at some point.
+2 on the CS-590 offering. The CS-590 is certainly intriguing, as it is quite a bit less expensive than the 600's and 620's, but has the same cc's. I've also wondered if it has similar potential, which would make it a real bargain for a 60cc saw?.......Cliff
Removing the limiter caps was a nice improvement for that saw, but it was still "sluggish" and a bit down on power. A muffler mod was the next improvement, and low and behold I now have a really nice running top handle saw one would be proud of. It has great power for the cc's, and has been dead solid reliable now for many years. The only negative to that saw is the "bulky" design for a top handle.
Echo has been improving their offerings one by one in recent years. I've owned just about every single model that was available 10 years ago, some were strong runners, others just OK, and a couple a bit sub-standard, at least in terms of power to weight ratio. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of direct experience with the latest offerings, but am glad threads like this are running on them. I've very interested in the CS-590, CS-600, and CS-620 models, but haven't dropped the hammer on one yet simple because my line-up is quite up to par in 60cc range. I've still got my sights set on owning one, and may add one to the line-up at some point.
+2 on the CS-590 offering. The CS-590 is certainly intriguing, as it is quite a bit less expensive than the 600's and 620's, but has the same cc's. I've also wondered if it has similar potential, which would make it a real bargain for a 60cc saw?.......Cliff
Vibes
Addicted to ArboristSite
What do you mean no one here sells crap. What are you some kind of fortune teller? I've been burned here twice by so called reputable sellers so keep the absolutes to yourself. I've also bought more than a few saws here with no problems. Those transactions have been noted.
Conquistador3
Le Comte de Frou Frou
Interesting thread, and I want to add one little thing.
These Echo chainsaws (like pretty much every other piece of power equipment) are sold all over the world with different emission requirements. For manufacturers the best way to save money is to have one basic machine which can be made compliant simply by switching a different carburetor and perhaps exhaust.
Generally speaking, European emission regulations are laxer than EPA ones. This means the various chainsaws, lawnmowers, brushcutters etc we have here run slightly richer at the factory and hence a tad better.
Yamabiko manufactures God only knows how many chainsaws a year and for them it makes just much more economic sense to have a single basic model to which fit different carburetors to be emission compliant on different markets. Knowing how Japanese companies work they did their homework to make the engine as reliable as possible but also know very well US-specific models run a higher risk of breaking down, hence have a higher chance of having to be repaired/swapped under warranty.
However for them the warranty costs are much lower than running two or more separate product lines. Money wins in the end.
These Echo chainsaws (like pretty much every other piece of power equipment) are sold all over the world with different emission requirements. For manufacturers the best way to save money is to have one basic machine which can be made compliant simply by switching a different carburetor and perhaps exhaust.
Generally speaking, European emission regulations are laxer than EPA ones. This means the various chainsaws, lawnmowers, brushcutters etc we have here run slightly richer at the factory and hence a tad better.
Yamabiko manufactures God only knows how many chainsaws a year and for them it makes just much more economic sense to have a single basic model to which fit different carburetors to be emission compliant on different markets. Knowing how Japanese companies work they did their homework to make the engine as reliable as possible but also know very well US-specific models run a higher risk of breaking down, hence have a higher chance of having to be repaired/swapped under warranty.
However for them the warranty costs are much lower than running two or more separate product lines. Money wins in the end.
drf255
BAD CAD
And a big "I have a potty mouth" to you too...
I'll opine whenever I want to, here or anywhere.
Your angry response makes me wonder who was at fault with your bad events.
I don't think I'm a fortune teller, maybe I am, who knows.
TimberWolf530
ArboristSite Guru
Just an FYI on the limiter caps on Echo saws. You don't have to drill them out. Turn them anti-clockwise until they stop. Then use a pick with a 90 degree tip to pry it out. They pop out easily that way. Then you just snip the two limiter tabs with side cuts, and file it smooth, and put them back in.
Idahonative
Addicted to ArboristSite
Easier yet...no need to turn them to any certain position and no need to use a screw to get them out (which buggers up the flat head slot). Just take your 90* pick and pull the metal retainer out. Then pull both limiters out with your pick also. Trim the tabs, put them back in...then snap the metal retainer back in.
Use a bench grinder to grind those tabs off, takes about 2 seconds. Steve
TimberWolf530
ArboristSite Guru
If you're going to use a bench grinder for it, be very careful. The first one I did, with just a little pressure the tab came off in about a milisecond, and it flattened it out. It would be easy to grind right through it if you're not extremely careful. It's not hard to snip them with side cuts and smooth it with a file, and it gives me more control. To each his own, but I feel much safer doing this job manually.
