Thanks Gregg. I definately found that to be true.
VIDEO: Topping and dropping a 58" DBH Oak tree
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Thanks Gregg. I definately found that to be true.
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
I was trying to be nice and not get into your technique! I would make the horizontal first. This is where you are gunning or aiming. Use your sights on the saw and get it pointed in the direction of fall, one or two pulls of the trigger can mean 5 or 10 degrees off target. Then make your diagonal to match where you are aiming. With this size tree the game steps up some, but its hard to aim when making the diagonal and its even harder to change where your aiming with the diagonal first. It can put you in a sketchy situation, with the tree all cut up. I was thinkin what Gregg said with the nose in first on the longer bar, that makes sense to me, tho I have no experience on that long a bar so didn't want to say anything. After makin your face usually I would just flip the saw over, dog into the hinge, and swing throught the back cut, maybe pounding a wedge if needed. With this one I guess you'd have to nose in then bring it around to dog in. Thats gutsy to stray from your norm on a big mother like that. It looks like you did some tracing for the cuts?
Brad- good work. Like Erick said, you got the tree down safely and that's what matters at the end of the day. Making the horizontal cut first is a good way to do it. Making the angled cut first is something guys do after they get a few hundred or a couple thousand trees under their belt. It's easier to 'gun' the horizontal cut and eyeball where you're aiming. A beginner move in bigger wood is to put a twig or a small stick in the far side of your horizontal cut so's you have something to 'aim' your angled cut at. That way you don't have to adjust your face.
Adjusting your notch though isn't a big deal and goes on with professional cutters everyday. The only time you run into trouble with that is if you end up extending the face on either side and change the direction the tree is headed.
I agree with John- use the smallest saw you can get away with. This gives you more control and is less fatiguing. Big saws are fun but not always practical.
The back cut went pretty good and yeah the long bar was a pain. Overall, it looked fine and the videos were highly entertaining.
Adjusting your notch though isn't a big deal and goes on with professional cutters everyday. The only time you run into trouble with that is if you end up extending the face on either side and change the direction the tree is headed.
I agree with John- use the smallest saw you can get away with. This gives you more control and is less fatiguing. Big saws are fun but not always practical.
The back cut went pretty good and yeah the long bar was a pain. Overall, it looked fine and the videos were highly entertaining.
Thanks Jacob. You're another one of the guys I wanted comments from. It sounds like a bad word, but "constructive criticism" is good. We can all learn something that way.
FATGUY
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I've been looking forward to this for a while. An acquaintance of mine runs a lawn care business and does some tree work as well. One of the properties he maintains had a huge 58" DBH White Oak that was lightning damaged. He asked me if I'd like to help since he knew I had the saws and bars to do it. This video is the whole thing from beginning to end. I'm not a tree falling expert, nor do I know anything about climbing. There may be 1001 safety concerns in this video, but that's not my concern. The guys got the job done, and did a good job of it.
The biggest mistake I made of the day was having to change the angle of my notch. I also shouldn't have tried to make the back cut with a 72" bar. I had a lot of trouble keeping the far end from drooping too much. It made it difficult to keep the back cut above the notch. I kept at it and finally got it where I wanted it. I left about a 4" hinged, and kept it well above the notch. I was careful not to undercut my notch on this bad boy. Lesson learned on the last big one I dropped.
It was a lot of fun, but I am exhausted. I've edited this video from better than 40 minutes of footage. I hope you enjoy it.
I had to break the video up into less than 10 minute clips.
I tell ya, after watching that, I'd rather lend a saw to Joe Homeowner.... They clearly don't love saws like we do!
Those boys certainly aren't easy on equipment! The 346 that was being used all day by the one climber, is the one I just completely went through and put a new Meteor piston in a few months ago. It's the one we used in the 50cc saw shootout. They already burnt it up. Just last week I put a new OEM topend on it. It's tuned quite fat now. It doesn't clean out until they really lean on it. They don't pay one bit of attention to it. They just run them, and run them hard. It doesn't even look like the saw I sold them. They certainly live a hard life.
Nailsbeats
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Brad, enjoyed the vids and your enthusiasm. As far as backcutting with a big bar; start the backcut with a smaller bar, go in a bar width, then thread the big dog into that, this will take out the sag issue and your good to go. It's no fun when the chain fly's off and your left filing drivers on a chain of that size.
With notching, I prefer to do the angle cut first on a traditional notch like you used. Just hold the saw at the desired downward angle and gun off the top saw sights, take your time to pick an exact point for your gun and you'll nail it everytime. Work the saw down, then put in the perfect flat cut to meet the top, sighting down the kerf you already cut to tell when the cuts meet. It's very easy to adjust to making the cuts meet perfect using this method, with no dutchman and a perfect gun. Use a wedge if needed to keep the kerf open.
Also note, when you finnish your notch, you can put the saw in and apex using the side saw sights, or the top and they'll be pointing at the point you picked. Remember, the gun never lies.
With notching, I prefer to do the angle cut first on a traditional notch like you used. Just hold the saw at the desired downward angle and gun off the top saw sights, take your time to pick an exact point for your gun and you'll nail it everytime. Work the saw down, then put in the perfect flat cut to meet the top, sighting down the kerf you already cut to tell when the cuts meet. It's very easy to adjust to making the cuts meet perfect using this method, with no dutchman and a perfect gun. Use a wedge if needed to keep the kerf open.
Also note, when you finnish your notch, you can put the saw in and apex using the side saw sights, or the top and they'll be pointing at the point you picked. Remember, the gun never lies.
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we all have our place here, and just hearing this kind of advice humbles me!
Aww, Brad, you did your part very well. Saws ran great.
Can't say much about the crew you were working with though. The job got done safely (and that is all that matters), but they under utilized that crane drastically. I don't know how many tons it was or how much stick it had, but it was probably around 17 to 20 tons, with 80+ feet of stick. Looks like every top could have been lowered down, which would have allowed you to place the tops in a safe area for cutting up, wouldn't have smashed up the yard, would have avoided a tangled mess at base of the tree or you could have loaded the branches right into the chipper and then unhook it. 2 groundies would have been sufficient for the job.
Saw a climber with a 200t just limbing off small limbs. That just creates more clean up and puts it farther away from the chipper too. While those 346s were cutting pretty good, a crane crew has at least a 60cc saw doing the work and usually has a 70cc saw to do everything. The crane is there to make big cuts, not piece it down. A true seasoned crane crew would have made 15 or so cuts for that thing to be on the ground. Definitely would have had the but log hooked to the crane. No need for a monster bar, notch or a big divot in the ground from impact. Throw a 36" bar on a stock 066 and I would have beat ya.
White Oak brings primo money at the mill, some mill would have bought that log no problem, even being a yard tree. If that crane had side bars, I would have loaded every single mill grade log on it. We sell logs to mills at the tree company I work for, so some mills do buy yard trees.
With a crane on site, the idea is to get the job done as fast as possible. Cutting firewood on site is slow and time consuming because you have more to move, plus you making mounds of saw dust that would have to be raked up. If ya wanted the wood for firewood, saw off the tops of the big branches, re-hook the clean log to the crane and load it in a dump truck. The access was there, take advantage of it. Doing this saves time and allows you to do the job with less man power too. That extra small firewood you saved isn't gonna pay for the extra time and man power needed to produce it.
If those guys keep working with a crane, they will eventually realize it. I remember the first time I worked with a crane, I was trying to save firewood and just using man power to get the job done. Once I listened to the crane operator and let the crane do the work, I realized how much of asset it really is. A good operator and climber make all the difference, big chippers don't hurt either.
I think most of the tree guys here would agree with my statements about that crew, they just need more guidance and practice. You got your act together though Brad. Your video's of cutting these big trees down are pretty damn good.
Can't say much about the crew you were working with though. The job got done safely (and that is all that matters), but they under utilized that crane drastically. I don't know how many tons it was or how much stick it had, but it was probably around 17 to 20 tons, with 80+ feet of stick. Looks like every top could have been lowered down, which would have allowed you to place the tops in a safe area for cutting up, wouldn't have smashed up the yard, would have avoided a tangled mess at base of the tree or you could have loaded the branches right into the chipper and then unhook it. 2 groundies would have been sufficient for the job.
Saw a climber with a 200t just limbing off small limbs. That just creates more clean up and puts it farther away from the chipper too. While those 346s were cutting pretty good, a crane crew has at least a 60cc saw doing the work and usually has a 70cc saw to do everything. The crane is there to make big cuts, not piece it down. A true seasoned crane crew would have made 15 or so cuts for that thing to be on the ground. Definitely would have had the but log hooked to the crane. No need for a monster bar, notch or a big divot in the ground from impact. Throw a 36" bar on a stock 066 and I would have beat ya.
White Oak brings primo money at the mill, some mill would have bought that log no problem, even being a yard tree. If that crane had side bars, I would have loaded every single mill grade log on it. We sell logs to mills at the tree company I work for, so some mills do buy yard trees.
With a crane on site, the idea is to get the job done as fast as possible. Cutting firewood on site is slow and time consuming because you have more to move, plus you making mounds of saw dust that would have to be raked up. If ya wanted the wood for firewood, saw off the tops of the big branches, re-hook the clean log to the crane and load it in a dump truck. The access was there, take advantage of it. Doing this saves time and allows you to do the job with less man power too. That extra small firewood you saved isn't gonna pay for the extra time and man power needed to produce it.
If those guys keep working with a crane, they will eventually realize it. I remember the first time I worked with a crane, I was trying to save firewood and just using man power to get the job done. Once I listened to the crane operator and let the crane do the work, I realized how much of asset it really is. A good operator and climber make all the difference, big chippers don't hurt either.
I think most of the tree guys here would agree with my statements about that crew, they just need more guidance and practice. You got your act together though Brad. Your video's of cutting these big trees down are pretty damn good.
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
On your diagonal do you start in the middle of the tree?
I'm thinking that suspenders and a hickory shirt, along with a full brim hardhat would lessen the fatigue. Chew too. 
Nice job.
Nice job.
Tzed250
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Brad- good work. Like Erick said, you got the tree down safely and that's what matters at the end of the day. Making the horizontal cut first is a good way to do it. Making the angled cut first is something guys do after they get a few hundred or a couple thousand trees under their belt. It's easier to 'gun' the horizontal cut and eyeball where you're aiming. A beginner move in bigger wood is to put a twig or a small stick in the far side of your horizontal cut so's you have something to 'aim' your angled cut at. That way you don't have to adjust your face.
Adjusting your notch though isn't a big deal and goes on with professional cutters everyday. The only time you run into trouble with that is if you end up extending the face on either side and change the direction the tree is headed.
I agree with John- use the smallest saw you can get away with. This gives you more control and is less fatiguing. Big saws are fun but not always practical.
The back cut went pretty good and yeah the long bar was a pain. Overall, it looked fine and the videos were highly entertaining.
Jacob covered it Brad.
My dad, after more than 8000 hours as a pilot in the USAF, used to say "Any landing you can walk away from is a good one".
Of course there is some tougue in cheek involved with that saying, but a great deal of truth too. Any stump you can walk away from is a good one. I prefer top cut first, but that is with open faced falling where the wedge weighs very little. Find some small stuff to fall, build your confidence with control of the small stems, and develop your own falling program. There is no "one correct way". Since you are doing this as a hobby, the main point is to have a good time!
.
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
Andrew, lots of good advise there. Even though that was the first time I was ever around a crane or climbers, I can easily see what you say is true.
Thanks everyone for your advice and comments.
Thanks everyone for your advice and comments.
Nailsbeats
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Yes I do.
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
Brad, when in doubt. . . Cheat. Use a small rope, stringline, flagging, or what-have-you. . . Wrap it around the trunk, and tie the ends. Make sure the line isn't hung up on the sides or back.
Doing this will give you a clear visual all the way around the trunk, allowing your cuts to meet-up -- esp. the face and back-cut. Just set the "sting-type-device" above where you're going to be cutting (with the Humboldt) or below (with the Traditional).
Also, carrying a 3'-4' string, tied to a 1" nut, in your pocket makes a perfect plumb-bob. . . Lineman use them to plum poles. Working from both x and y axis will allow you to read side and head lean.
Hope this was a little helpful?
Thanks Metals. That's kind of what I did. I had one of the climbers hold a rope around the tree. I worked my way around the tree leveling it up. When I had it where I wanted it, I then cut a shallow ring around the tree with my 346. That helped a lot.
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
I just finished up your videos'. . . Good stuff!
Wish we had hardwoods like that here!!
I would have milled that whole tree, limbs and all. . . But, like I said, hardwoods have to be shipped in to Northern Montucky. You did pretty good with that big, floppidy bar. . . Kinda like shootin' pool with a rope.
StihlyinEly
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You did pretty good with that big, floppidy bar. . . Kinda like shootin' pool with a rope.
Now that analogy right there was worth the price of admission. If it ain't stiff, you can't use it as a level.
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