We need to help Cody!!

[Guido Salvage]

If it make you feel better, and I doubt it will, I was at a local university last week bucking up a 250 year old oak that had to come down to make way for equipment to build a new building on campus. Well the students made a small protest march and put rest in peace tags where the tree had been. Funny though, they didn't protest the new building they were getting. At another local big name college several students gave one of the contractors a hard time for having a full size older Dodge pickup and called him a gas hog. He tried to explain that it was diesel and got better mileage than most of the cars they drove. It would seem that the educated class is becoming less educated and certainly more bandwagon oriented.

Until I saw your location I thought you may have been referring to the University of Virginia. Restoration work is starting on the Rotunda, one of the original Thomas Jefferson designed buildings on campus. It burned in 1896 and following its rebuilding some magnolia trees were planted around the perimeter.

They are now in the way of the scaffolding that will be needed to repair the roof and dome. In addition, the roots are playing havoc with the foundation so they had to be removed. Part of the restoration is to return the building to its original Jeffersonian appearances of which the magnolias were not a part.

The students banded together to save the trees. For any of the stories just Google "magnolia" along with UVA or Rotunda.

 

[Gologit]

Well, Metals406, you know what I meant.. :tongue2:

Gees, what is this fascination with hippies? :msp_confused:

Anyway, NO ONE should litter, I always pack out what I packed in.

I'm not trying to get the thread locked or anything, nor trying to get the opportunity to count RandyMac's fingers. Nor am I going to tie myself to a tree or anything like that. There's been enough negative vibes around here lately for me anyway, I don't want to contribute to that. I've learned a lot here in the chainsaw forum in my short time here, and do hope that continues.

But I can't help it, I have a soft spot for nature. It has nothing to do with politics, or being a hippy, or anything else. I grew up playing in the small patch of woods behind the house. Even when we went on our yearly family camping trips, trees were named and placemarked for important locations.

I still try and get out and see the beauty of nature when I can, whether its an ATV trip (Tread Lightly), a fishing outing, a walk, or simply driving through a forested area. And no, national forests are not sanctuaries from coal and timber operations, as evidenced here in the East.

Rightly or wrongly, I don't like to see vast parts of our land clear-cut, or mountains leveled for coal, the pollution of our land and waters, or even something as simple as seeing people littering. I guess if that makes me an ignorant tree hugging leftist idealistic hippy, well, I don't think there is enough space for me to change my screen-name... :msp_tongue:

I guess my main point though is can the timber industry sustain itself? As said, it is one of our most important natural resources, one that helps to clean the atmosphere of our pollution, helps keep land stable and usable, and probably most importantly, one that is renewable.

I don't think at the current rate of production, that both the needs of industry and the needs of nature can be in balance. Does all the old growth need to be cut or can the industry harvest faster growing trees? Does the industry need to clear-cut everything or can it be more selective with what is harvested? Can there be better implementation of tree farms?

I am NOT suggesting that logging be completly outlawed, or that loggers aren't already conserving this resource, but just that one be more conscious of the amounts of timber that is being cut. Yes, I put my saws to the wood, all deadwood and blowdows for my measly wood needs though.

But, I expect my saws to be passed down a few generations (I got a Stihl, so I KNOW it will last that long.. :biggrin: kidding...), so hopefully they will be cutting wood for decades to come. Will there still be an opportunity to do so?

Anyway, enough of my ramblings, back to my tea.

But just remember, I may have already named that tree you are about to cut down.. :msp_smile:

Name as many as you want. When it's time for them to come down they're coming down.

I spent my first twenty years in the woods falling redwood and a lot of that was old growth. No apology.

I admire your courage in expressing an alternative viewpoint. I respect your dedication to your beliefs. Now...get the hell out.

 

[RandyMac]

Name as many as you want. When it's time for them to come down they're coming down.

I spent my first twenty years in the woods falling redwood and a lot of that was old growth. No apology.

I admire your courage in expressing an alternative viewpoint. I respect your dedication to your beliefs. Now...get the hell out.

You beat me to it Boss.

 

[Guido Salvage]

East coast question for west coast fellers that are/were fallers. Is there a single reason for the demise of PNW logging or was it a combination of factors?

* Environmental?
* Limited remaining old growth?
* Economy?
* Imported timber or cheaper domestic options?
* Federal land closures?

I am not looking for people to blast the spotted owl, but rather some thoughtful and insightful appraisals as to what occurred for the benefit of us who were not there.

 

[Gologit]

East coast question for west coast fellers that are/were fallers. Is there a single reason for the demise of PNW logging or was it a combination of factors?

* Environmental?
* Limited remaining old growth?
* Economy?
* Imported timber or cheaper domestic options?
* Federal land closures?

I am not looking for people to blast the spotted owl, but rather some thoughtful and insightful appraisals as to what occurred for the benefit of us who were not there.

LOL...we're not demised quite yet but we're not logging on the same scale that we did years ago, either.

You pretty much covered why in the five things you listed. All of them, in one way or another, are connected to each other.

 

[Gologit]

[/B]

You beat me to it Boss.

Well don't let that stop you. Let him know what you think. I'll be damned if we have to just stand around and take that kind of crap .

The OP has good intentions. He just doesn't know what he's talking about. And if he doesn't know what he's talking about he should just S-T-F-U and listen for awhile.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

is it time for the finger again?

Randy, Randy, Randy. I won't forget the first pics of you, cutting timber I had seen. First I thought you were the tree huger sorry man it was the hair! LOL! I love the pics, and stories dude, you have earned my respect and friendship many times over. I really enjoy having you around. In fact I am waiting till we get a good tree job, or one big tree. I already plan on calling you, be kinda cool to cut with a legend:biggrin: Actually figured I am due in some pics, and you are better with a camera:biggrin: First part was from the heart brother! But with your witts, you have learned to read between the lines:msp_thumbup:

 

[RandyMac]

Yes sir Bob.

I'm kinda cross just now, I'd be jamming a spike top in his ear.

Norm, my flatland buddy, how the heck are ya?
LOL! the hair, well, it was the '70s.

 

[promac850]

Well, them hippies need to shut up.

Trees come down one way or another. Sometime it's gotta be done by us, other times by nature. Yet other times, it's sorta both...

I had to cut up a nice nearly 28" dbh maple not too long ago. Suck on that, hippies. It was rotting out in the center, posing a risk to the house, etc. Oh, and if it were in the woods, I probably would've cut it down anyhow. It'll make good firewood next year... we've got it all split and stacked already.


Buncha idiots. Conservation takes more than just protecting trees... in order to protect the good ones, the bad ones need to be taken care of. Otherwise disease, beetle infestations, etc. will be a problem. Obviously they let their grass that comes conveniently in little sandwich baggies get to them.

As dingeryote once said, "Curb stomp a hippie and help save the world." or something like that.


I consider Prius drivers hippies. I cannot begin to tell you how much I want to park my truck full of firewood rounds on top of a Prius. It's such a cluster####ing joke, them Priuses are...

Write your hate mail, threaten me, whatever.


RandyMac, be sure to get some target practice in... same goes for you Sir Bob... damn hippies could try something, ya know.

 

[Sport Faller]

Since I was about 10-12 I always wanted to design some sort of refinery that would turn hippies into something useful, like tires, or gasoline or maybe rebar

 

[joshua mason]

I cannot believe any of you would cut down a completely defenseless tree. It is so not fair. Im kidding, but this is the same bs I hear about hunting. Crazy thing is, they gripe when a deer causes several thousand dollars to there vehicles. Im not saying wipe out all trees, or deer for that matter, but I think some of your more responsible nature lovers, are hunters and loggers. Peta(people eating tasty animals)

 

[slowp]

Well, Metals406, you know what I meant.. :tongue2:

Gees, what is this fascination with hippies? :msp_confused:

Anyway, NO ONE should litter, I always pack out what I packed in.

I'm not trying to get the thread locked or anything, nor trying to get the opportunity to count RandyMac's fingers. Nor am I going to tie myself to a tree or anything like that. There's been enough negative vibes around here lately for me anyway, I don't want to contribute to that. I've learned a lot here in the chainsaw forum in my short time here, and do hope that continues.

But I can't help it, I have a soft spot for nature. It has nothing to do with politics, or being a hippy, or anything else. I grew up playing in the small patch of woods behind the house. Even when we went on our yearly family camping trips, trees were named and placemarked for important locations.

I still try and get out and see the beauty of nature when I can, whether its an ATV trip (Tread Lightly), a fishing outing, a walk, or simply driving through a forested area. And no, national forests are not sanctuaries from coal and timber operations, as evidenced here in the East.

Rightly or wrongly, I don't like to see vast parts of our land clear-cut, or mountains leveled for coal, the pollution of our land and waters, or even something as simple as seeing people littering. I guess if that makes me an ignorant tree hugging leftist idealistic hippy, well, I don't think there is enough space for me to change my screen-name... :msp_tongue:

I guess my main point though is can the timber industry sustain itself? As said, it is one of our most important natural resources, one that helps to clean the atmosphere of our pollution, helps keep land stable and usable, and probably most importantly, one that is renewable.

I don't think at the current rate of production, that both the needs of industry and the needs of nature can be in balance. Does all the old growth need to be cut or can the industry harvest faster growing trees? Does the industry need to clear-cut everything or can it be more selective with what is harvested? Can there be better implementation of tree farms?

I am NOT suggesting that logging be completly outlawed, or that loggers aren't already conserving this resource, but just that one be more conscious of the amounts of timber that is being cut. Yes, I put my saws to the wood, all deadwood and blowdows for my measly wood needs though.

But, I expect my saws to be passed down a few generations (I got a Stihl, so I KNOW it will last that long.. :biggrin: kidding...), so hopefully they will be cutting wood for decades to come. Will there still be an opportunity to do so?

Anyway, enough of my ramblings, back to my tea.

But just remember, I may have already named that tree you are about to cut down.. :msp_smile:

Let's do some educating, or try to, rather than name calling. I will discuss CURRENT timber management on my area's NATIONAL FOREST--not state, not private. I will discuss what I know. The rest of you should chime in about your areas.

First, the old growth myth. No old growth has been offered up for sale here since 1990 something. The only old growth that is cut is in campgrounds, or a danger tree in a logging area. We've moved roads over a hair to save an old punkin. And, the old growth that has to come down for safety reasons is either left as is, or given up for firewooders. You see, wood cut for firewood is a good thing, wood cut for timber is an evil corporate profit making environmental destroying bad thing. (these are the views of the enviros, not mine.)

In addition to that, there aren't many sawmills left that can handle large diameter logs. In fact, timber sellers will be docked for delivering logs that are over the preferred diameter of a sawmill. So, it pays to offer timber in the 14 to 28" diameter range.

Now, the timber sale contract is about an inch thick to a half inch thick. It too, has shrunk since the days of old growth. There are laws to follow. A minimum bid amount is set for each timber sale. This amount must cover the reforestation costs. We don't clearcut here much anymore. I think a sale is coming up that has a few small clearcuts in it. That is the only place that would need reforestation. Anyway, by law, trees must be replanted and must meet stocking requirements in 5 years. That answers your sustainability question. Trees grow like weeds where I live. Somebody once asked about planting corn here. :msp_tongue: Corn doesn't grow well here. Douglas fir and Hemlock and Red Alder and Noble Fir and Silver Fir and Western Red Cedar and even Western White pine grow well here. Forty year old trees are big enough to harvest. And no, it isn't a monoculture. The species that are replanted are the ones that would grow there naturally. Hemlock will seed itself in, as will alder.

Logging is regulated. Think about that inch thick contract. Each skid trail or skyline corridor location has to be walked, extra trees marked with paint by the FS forester, and written up as approved, before a tree can be cut in that area. Landing size and location must be approved in advance. Fuel storage is regulated. You should hear the other side. They'll call it over regulated. But that's how things are.

Streams are buffered, and the stream buffers are buffered. In fact, there can be 3 different buffer levels by streams. A no cut, a few cut but no machinery allowed, and a few more cut, and no machinery allowed. Line pulling is the way to get those trees out.

Seasonal restrictions are so restrictive that there may only be one month a unit can be worked in. Lately, the sales have only 3 months of operating time and in August and September, fire danger may cause less time.

My brain is dead. Any questions? I'll try to answer them. Must get to doing things.

 

[Sport Faller]

Don't waste your time, I've tried. All you end up with is a 1/2 cup of patchouli

Oh you mean the "giant apple press" method, quite right, quite right

then you have to get in there with some Draino and a lot of elbow grease when those damn dredlocks clog everything up

 

[ray benson]

They show the jacks at the end of the video - impressive.

 

[lfnh]

Let's do some educating, or try to, rather than name calling. I will discuss CURRENT timber management on my area's NATIONAL FOREST--not state, not private. I will discuss what I know. The rest of you should chime in about your areas.

My brain is dead. Any questions? I'll try to answer them. Must get to doing things.

Sure. I'll ask a rhetorical question.

It would seem that with all the prescriptive planning efforts that are put into a harvest, this more often than not, results in litigation aiming for a judical proscription that is often at complete odds with accepted timber management objectives that are part and parcel to the actual harvest.
For example, stalling or stopping a harvest which results in greatly increased fuel loads (scorched earth wildfires) or rapidly expanding diseased acreage that without the harvest threaten healthy adjactent forests (federal or private). In either case, the aftermath is timber with less or little value.

The term stalemate comes to mind.

Experiences and observations would be appreciated.

 

[slowp]

Evergreen Magazine

 

[cpr]

Maybe they'd (hippies) be happy if we called it the harvest instead? Do it with a "combine." Change the marketing of the whole game to farming (yeah, yeah I can already hear the groans about farmer loggers ).

NEW from DOW AGRISCIENCES: 36500 day maturity Round-Up ready Seqouia seed!

More acreage in trees than crops and we hear about the air cleansing benefit of trees. Far MORE acreage is water, how about the air cleansing benefits of algae? Droppin' a sick Redwood isn't a problem except for the dude that's gotta do it.

Watch me waste dinorsaur squeeze to covert a trunk from one of your naturally killed trees (Emerald Ash Borers are ruining forests here) into BTUs...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YWPa8tFMQB8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm all for conservation. Trouble is, far too many have come to make that term equivalent to prohibition without any sort of understanding.

naturelover, it occurs to me that you live in an area populated with folks of an outlook similar to yours. This is a perfectly natural state of things, but it may explain why so many of your saws have gone stolen... either that or you're a more clever than average troll.

 

[lfnh]

Evergreen Magazine

Thank you. Very simple read. Unfortunately, the Serial Litigators are Still At Work.
Open EAJA Act of 2010 was never brought out of committee because it was introduced from an earlier session of Congress, as best i read. However, that Act would have put a bright spot light on taxpayer payments made to the "non-profit" litigators since 1995. A tidy sum no doubt, sanctioned by US Code and presented by the Courts. Taking the fun (money) out of litigating harvest plans would go a long way to thinning the herd and the stalemate.

Another looming court case that could have far greater economic impact, is well stated in another article and well worth reading. Could just as easily substitute the word ranching, farming, hiking, biking and the ramifications are not without merit. A whole new level of litigation extremism, leaving our Country paralyzed. I certainly don't want that to happen nor should the next generations be saddled with that gorilla. imho.

Evergreen Magazine

 

[slowp]

The road runoff case might just be the final straw. I can see logging shutting down and all logs/lumber coming from overseas. The "Buy Local" fad does not apply when it comes to wood products, I guess.

 

[Rounder]

I'm not liking this idea that being a timber faller=hating nature/environment....whatever.
I fall timber because I like being outdoors....and I don't care for most people.
Hell, I got my college degree in environmental studies. I must be a hippie!
Most of the jobs we do are done for reasons of forest health. People get pissed about it because the are completly ignorant of forest health issues. After 100 years of ####ty forest management, our public lands are pretty ####ed up. Forests and foresters need loggers, and the mills that pay for the logs to fund the projects that try and reset some of the natural systems that have been thrown severly out of wack.

Just my dumbass know-nothing timber faller 2 cents - Sam