What can I put in a tree to fill a small cavity?

[NebClimber]

Cleint has a small hole in his maple, on the trunk. He wants me to put something in it (like a foam sealant) to close it off from ants, rodents, etc.

First, is this possible (the cavity is only about 4" wide and 12" deep).

Second, what should I use?

He has been putting a foam sealant in it, but the critters are removing it over time.

Steven

 

[Tim Gardner]

Go down to a dive shop and get a bottle of compressed air. Fill cavity up completely and smooth over. Try not to overfill.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Timmmmmmmmmmm;

ya beat me to it;
but prolly wasn't going to say it as well anyway.

Tom interjected (i think) a theory on if it must be wet/hold water better full (no aerobic bacteria etc.) rather than wet and oxygen avaivailable too(?)

So i was going to say air or water(?).

 

[NebClimber]

One of my questions was whether there was a viable treatment.

So you guys are telling me there is no treatment to be had? Or, that any treatment would do more harm than good?

Please tell me why so I can explain to my customer.

Thanks,

Steven

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

In general, we are finding out for some reason; that in 50 years of study; we can't top millions of years of evolution and selective survival of the best; that has given us the largest and heaviest life form ever, a superlative extreme on the scale. That a lot of things we do to trees, seem to be people things, not tree things; we should have more faith in Nature; and make sure the problem isn't being given the fullest of the best kind of attention chosen, before we throw the balances off, rushing in.

Or something like that!
:alien:

 

[rumination]

Steven,

In most cases no treatment is your best bet. Water will not hurt the tree because it has already formed boundaries, and air is good to keep circulation where there isn't water. If your client is concerned about critters living in there perhaps you could block off the cavity with some screen.

 

[jamie]

leave it,

this is an article on cavaties in aincient / veteran trees.

its on www.aie.org.uk

Closing cavaties

hope its ok,

leave the tree, let it compartmentalise itself

jamie

 

[NebClimber]

What about ants that now inhabit the cavity?

Perhaps I should recommend spraying the ants while leaving the hole open?

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Not sure of all that myself, but here are some thoughts; ya ever hear about the maggots cleaning a wound(not quite the same)?

NC State- Shigo's Corner-Ants

A lil'off topic, but found this too: Doc Shigo 4 different speciesTree Autopsy ; to show some of this man's sight.

 

[NeTree]

Fiberglass epoxy resin.

 

[NebClimber]

TreeSpyder:

Interest comparison of ants to maggots. Maggots only eat dead flesh. What do ants eat?

Guy, what do you know about this?

Steven

 

[NebClimber]

OK. I've now read the Shigo piece. Ants and termites eat dead wood. Sounds good to me. I guess the trick is to make sure the bugs are ants or termites and not something else.


By the way, I've passed along the info to the homeowner that the cavity will heal on its own, or at least the best method is to allow the cavity to heal itself. He told me that this doesn't seem right to him. I'm supposed to go ahead with the other work he needs done, but he wants another answer to his cavity issue.

So I want to be absolutely certain that I get this right. I plan on printing the Shigo piece about compartmentalization and the piece that explains how ants and termites eat only dead wood. I'll show this literature to the homeowner so he doesn't think I'm just some guy who can't find the proper solution, shrugged his shoulders, and said there was nothing to be done.

Steven

 

[NeTree]

Spidey...

Isn't plant health care in itself defying the natural process?

 

[arboromega]

man you are asking the wrong question nebclimber. you dont cure a headache by cutting off the head.
are the ants there for some other reason?... your client claims the ants live in the cavity...so what. ants dont eat wood, they eat aphid honeydew and maples get aphids. maybe the tree has aphids. treat for aphids if so. if not just put out some ant bait that can be bought at any hardware store.
good arboriculture starts with you, and so does bad arboriculture...the choice is yours. you obvioiusly opt for good since you posted for opinions here. dont "patch" the cavity.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Originally posted by netree
Spidey...

Isn't plant health care in itself defying the natural process?

Unless you are in some kind of harmony angle with the process; it is seeming more so all the time. Kinda a line of thought new to me too as it has evolved from reading here and TB.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Spider thanks for the nc state link; I had to go to AS to see what my neighbors are saying and doing!

Steven, scrape out all the rot you can, without injuring soundwood. You'll be removing the ants at he same time, which is not a bad (or good) idea. Use expandable foam and press some mesh/screen on the outside before it sets, to deter chewers.

Rocky, I'm glad to see you're honoring ISA and respecting the authority of their pubs. I tried to search the archives of the Journal of Arboriculture re cavity-filling but forgot my username :blush: The Shigo quote in the NCSU link "The cavity should be left open or filled with foam.", would suffice for me if I was looking for authoritative backup on foam use.

I do know that expandable foam can lessen cracking by minimizing twisting. I seldom use it, but like the other AS, Al Shigo, I doubt it traps enough moisture to be a problem.

 

[arboromega]

Originally posted by arboromega
ants dont eat wood


basis for my statement, more infor on the ants relation to cavities...www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/iiin/acarpintr.html

 

[arboromega]

a little more info..
www.hoerrnursery.com/GardenInfo/IDCarpenterAnts.cfm

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Whenever cleaning or cutting to collar or callous i remember how Neo-Sporin came along and changed things.

Everything until then was more or less fry and dry. If you use Hydrogen Peroxide, etc. to clean a wound, you run the risk of drying out/killing the microscopic cells on the rim of the cut, that have the best chance of healing quickly, cleanly. The Neo-Sporin babys these cells, keeps them moist and provides antibiotic to curb other things that might thrive in environment, while allowing the healing.

So stay away from callous and collar, as not to wound the parallell process of the best healing cells microscopically leading the pack to heal best, but also in most harmable position.

Or something like that.
:alien:

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by arboromega
a little more info..
www.hoerrnursery.com/GardenInfo/IDCarpenterAnts.cfm

arboromega this is self-contradictory crap.

"they enhance the decay of wood and only qualify as a pest when they invade buildings.
Sometimes they cut into the softer parts of green wood ..."

Carpenter ants enhance decay and cut into green wood. That qualifies as a pest in my book, so I invite them to leave most trees I see them in.

If we counted on Hoerr Nursery for info, we'd all be chasing our tails. Please cite more reliable authorities, or at least those that don't say 2 things at once. :alien: