What is Horsepower?

[04ultra]

Heh heh heh,,,, Picking on 04Ultra 4 years ago!!!!

:fart:

 

[ShoerFast]

Gotta love the way some things are tested. Like the guy that has the best coonhounds, his tail-gate says,

"When The Tailgate Drops,
The Bullsht Stops"​

Talk HP all you want at a drag-strip, and someone is going to want to see some time-slips.

Timed cuts is the only way I will ever test a saw. The faster a saw gits-it-done, , the less there is to say.

 

[promac850]

Gotta love the way some things are tested. Like the guy that has the best coonhounds, his tail-gate says,

"When The Tailgate Drops,
The Bullsht Stops"​

Talk HP all you want at a drag-strip, and someone is going to want to see some time-slips.

Timed cuts is the only way I will ever test a saw. The faster a saw gits-it-done, , the less there is to say.

Yep. Also, the horsies must be put down to the ground efficiently. 185/70R14's are good for 180 or so, but over that, you lose precious seconds on the launch. The lower your 60-foot times, the faster you will reach the finish line.

 

[indiansprings]

At least when you take a car engine to a speed shop they can tell you what kind of hp results you will see for your money. I only seen one saw builder that can or is wiling to tell you what kind of gain you are going to get by actually measuring it.
It just beings credibility to the practice of modding. I seen too many threads lately where owners were no that impressed with the results of the modding they have had done, for the money spent I don't think it is too much to get an idea of what you can expect. Timed cuts on 8x8 cants of basswood don't mean much too me.

Maybe Simon will be another one that will share what reasonabe expectations should be. Only time will tell. Is there only the one video out there of one of his saws?
There are some good testimonies on another sight.

 

[SawTroll]

At least when you take a car engine to a speed shop they can tell you what kind of hp results you will see for your money. I only seen one saw builder that can or is wiling to tell you what kind of gain you are going to get by actually measuring it.
It just beings credibility to the practice of modding. I seen too many threads lately where owners were no that impressed with the results of the modding they have had done, for the money spent I don't think it is too much to get an idea of what you can expect. Timed cuts on 8x8 cants of basswood don't mean much too me.

Maybe Simon will be another one that will share what reasonabe expectations should be. Only time will tell. Is there only the one video out there of one of his saws?
There are some good testimonies on another sight.

As I have said, I agree that the percentage gains often referred to doesn't tell much, because of the limitation and flaws of that kind of testing. Also, the gains in cutting speed obviously are much larger than the gains in power, so it is sort of misleading anyway. Actually, I can't really figure out a perfect way to do it, as dyno tests also have their limitations - however, if the full power curve could be illustrated (and not just max power and max torque, at best), that probably would be the best way of testing.

 

[promac850]

Uh oh... SawTroll poped in again... :jester:

 

[parrisw]

Simon, don't tease us! The reason I asked what hp gain could be seen on a specific saw is that I've only seen one saw modder actually use measurable data to gauge his performance improvements on his saw work. The rest use hypothetical bs percentages based on timed cut with so many unmeasured vaaribles it's not even funny. Being in retail for many years I witnessed so many people try to hide behind percentages rather than giving true numbers it soured me on percentages, Mr. Walton wouldn't let us even use percentages in any presentations.

It doesn't have to be a 460, that is a just a saw I'm wanting to have modded.

I think you specialize in Husky, what kind of hp gains are you seeing over stock with your modifications. Also a while back on here a saw was modded and allegedly was outperformed by a stock saw of the same type. Before spending money a guy needs to know what kind of gain he is getting.

Do you use a dyno to measure your before and after results?

Guys, if you haven't learned from all these years, Simon is like a super hot woman that doesn't put out!!

He seems to always disappear when his threads start getting tough to answer questions. Go look back at them.

Maybe this time will be different? Who knows.

 

[TreeClimber57]

Mechanical hp (Hp(I) or Imperial hp) is what Stihl refer to in the US, and what Dolmar pretends to refer to. Oddly, Dolmars numbers are the same as the PS (Metric hp) that they refer to in Europe - the numbers really should be different then....:msp_rolleyes:.

One might think so

or what (inaccuratly) often are called bhp in the US.

Well.. bhp could be boiler horse power.. or brake horse power.

Some would use the term brake horse power when using a dyno, which is the power of the engine once all the energy losses caused by generator/alternator, transmission, water pump, etc are taken into consideration. Which in the case of an automobile would be considerable in some cases. In the case of a chainsaw, the losses would be minimal so they would be virtually the same one might assume.. and frankly not sure how you would measure the chainsaw without the losses (such as they are.. as there is not much.. oiler, bar and chain.. what else )

 

[TreeClimber57]

As I have said, I agree that the percentage gains often referred to doesn't tell much, because of the limitation and flaws of that kind of testing. Also, the gains in cutting speed obviously are much larger than the gains in power, so it is sort of misleading anyway. Actually, I can't really figure out a perfect way to do it, as dyno tests also have their limitations - however, if the full power curve could be illustrated (and not just max power and max torque, at best), that probably would be the best way of testing.

You would want to see a hp curve and torque curve over lay.. and in the case of the saw.. likely have the torque curve near top of rpm level.. which it may not be in all engines!!

Take my diesel pickup.. torque peak is WAY below rpm peak.. but she has one might low end pulling power

But as chainsaws are operated a WOT.. then you want the torque up near there as well..

 

[Simonizer]

Guys, if you haven't learned from all these years, Simon is like a super hot woman that doesn't put out!!

He seems to always disappear when his threads start getting tough to answer questions. Go look back at them.

Maybe this time will be different? Who knows.

Doesn't put out? lol. 1400 mods in 7 years makes me more like a super hot woman that is a freakin' nymphomaniac. You guys still rock after all these years. Missed you, even SpaceMule. :cool2:

 

[parrisw]

Doesn't put out? lol. 1400 mods in 7 years makes me more like a super hot woman that is a freakin' nymphomaniac. You guys still rock after all these years. Missed you, even SpaceMule. :cool2:

ha ha. Maybe!! Only going by what you say though. I'd truly love to run one of your 372's. I'm building a 372 right now, got any good tips for me?

 

[Simonizer]

ha ha. Maybe!! Only going by what you say though. I'd truly love to run one of your 372's. I'm building a 372 right now, got any good tips for me?

You are a BC boy and have never run one? Had to build 16 for Terry at LRD in Squamish one week. I have lots of tips. What do you want to know?

 

[SawTroll]

One might think so




Well.. bhp could be boiler horse power.. or brake horse power.

Some would use the term brake horse power when using a dyno, which is the power of the engine once all the energy losses caused by generator/alternator, transmission, water pump, etc are taken into consideration. Which in the case of an automobile would be considerable in some cases. In the case of a chainsaw, the losses would be minimal so they would be virtually the same one might assume.. and frankly not sure how you would measure the chainsaw without the losses (such as they are.. as there is not much.. oiler, bar and chain.. what else )

Metric and Imperial (inaccurately called "brake" or bhp) hp are both related to the same measured Watts or kW - the conversion number just is a little different (about 1.36 vs. 1.34). Dynos measure kW, not any kind of hp.
What is called bhp in the US saw specs today is not the original bhp (different story), but the Imperial hp. The Husky link I posted above relate to both kinds of hp, that is why it is interesting.

 

[indiansprings]

Parris, it's been many moons ago since I was out chasing but we called them ****teases back in the day. Lot of leading on, without any out put. Seems like this is the case, engineers deal in finite terms when building a product. Most Modder's seem to deal in alot of unknowns, send me your money and it'll run better, I was born in Missouri, you'll have to show me before I turn loose of hard earned money.
Don't mind spending it if I know what I'm getting, my customers know exactly what they get.

 

[drkptt]

Metric and Imperial (inaccurately called "brake" or bhp) hp are both related to the same measured Watts or kW - the conversion number just is a little different (about 1.36 vs. 1.34). Dynos measure kW, not any kind of hp.
What is called bhp in the US saw specs today is not the original bhp (different story), but the Imperial hp. The Husky link I posted above relate to both kinds of hp, that is why it is interesting.

Dynamometers measure power. Speed times torque times the conversion factor of your choice. To say they measure kW but not hp indicates you don't understand power measurement.

 

[parrisw]

You are a BC boy and have never run one? Had to build 16 for Terry at LRD in Squamish one week. I have lots of tips. What do you want to know?

Yep! I actually just live in Victoria, just down Island from you! Why don't you just whip one down on the bus, I'll run it and send it back!! LOL.

Serious though. I'll take any advice you will give out. I've already opened up the lower transfers, and windowed the piston. Next will be the cylinder and piston going on the lathe, then marking out the ports and going through the timing, anything special you do to the 372's?

Thanks

Will

 

[parrisw]

Parris, it's been many moons ago since I was out chasing but we called them ****teases back in the day. Lot of leading on, without any out put. Seems like this is the case, engineers deal in finite terms when building a product. Most Modder's seem to deal in alot of unknowns, send me your money and it'll run better, I was born in Missouri, you'll have to show me before I turn loose of hard earned money.
Don't mind spending it if I know what I'm getting, my customers know exactly what they get.

Yep! I do agree. I enjoy modding saws for the fun, only do my own. I can make em run better, how much??? I don't know.

 

[Simonizer]

Parris, it's been many moons ago since I was out chasing but we called them ****teases back in the day. Lot of leading on, without any out put. Seems like this is the case, engineers deal in finite terms when building a product. Most Modder's seem to deal in alot of unknowns, send me your money and it'll run better, I was born in Missouri, you'll have to show me before I turn loose of hard earned money.
Don't mind spending it if I know what I'm getting, my customers know exactly what they get.

Well after selling almost 2 million dollars worth of modded saws to guys twice the size of me,... almost all repeat customers, the fact that I have not had the living $hit kicked out of me must tell you something about my work. lol. I am not in the habit of disappointing fallers who fly into camp and work their asses off in brutal environments to feed their families. It took me a long time to gain the respect and trust I have from my hundreds of customers. Please cut me some slack.

 

[Simonizer]

Yep! I actually just live in Victoria, just down Island from you! Why don't you just whip one down on the bus, I'll run it and send it back!! LOL.

Serious though. I'll take any advice you will give out. I've already opened up the lower transfers, and windowed the piston. Next will be the cylinder and piston going on the lathe, then marking out the ports and going through the timing, anything special you do to the 372's?

Thanks

Will

Will, come up to my shop in a few months. I will SHOW you some modding tricks. The bull$hit stops there. Plus you get the profound pleasure of meeting me in person. lol. Damn I'm modest.

 

[parrisw]

Well after selling almost 2 million dollars worth of modded saws to guys twice the size of me,... almost all repeat customers, the fact that I have not had the living $hit kicked out of me must tell you something about my work. lol. I am not in the habit of disappointing fallers who fly into camp and work their asses off in brutal environments to feed their families. It took me a long time to gain the respect and trust I have from my hundreds of customers. Please cut me some slack.

Ya, I'll give ya that!

I was talking with a faller the other day, he said he really wants one of your 372's, he's only ever had walkers do his saws, and he did say that your saws had more JAM then the Walkers saws do.