What would you do?

[CWME]

Quick question to help me grasp this situation better...

You said a "discount rate" for daycare and then a 34% increase. In terms of dollars and cents, what's the number? If they were charging you like $50 a week, then 34% is still an incredible deal. Now, if they were charging $250, then the increase is unacceptable - IMHO.

So what is it? And how much of a discount are you getting post-increase?

Sounds like you are a good dude, and I'm leaning towards a steeper increase to make you think this hard about it. In the case of the steep increase I'd really have to sit down with this friend and wife and let them feel your pain. Otherwise, like others have said - don't mix friends and business.

It went from $75 to $100 a week. We don't really have the extra $ and they know it. It really isn't about the $ though, more the principle of the whole mess. Full price is now $150 a week by the way.

 

[Outlander]

It looks like you are still getting a sizable dicsount. Be happy you have that. If he would have asked you to pay full price you would have a reason to be upset.

 

[rottiman]

sounds like you are getting a deal that isn't too bad. If you think that this is the right day care for your young one, then let it ride. If this leads to another increase down the road then reevaluate it @ that time. In the interm, don't be so quick to get into any further "trades for service". If it is a true friendship thinks will work out eventually. If not life goes on. Time will tell. I have always felt that things happen for a reason. You might not understand why @ the time, but it usually comes out as to why eventually.
just sayin..............

 

[unclemoustache]

Ten years from now you're not going to be saying, "Gee I wish I wouldn't have been so nice to my friend." Take the high ground - that's what being a friend is all about. He's on hard times again and needs a little more money. Help him out again. It doesn't sound like he's trying to take advantage, but I would advise you to talk with him about it. Don't vent your feelings just to us - you need to sit down with him and work it out. Let him know you think you've helped him out quite a bit, but that you're willing to help him out some more if he really needs it, but that you're starting to feel like he's taking advantage. If he gets mad at you, then you'll know he really is taking advantage, but if he starts to act guilty, then help him out some more, because he's a true friend.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[blackdogon57]

If the guys business is hurting so bad that 25 bucks a week will make a difference then you should pay up. $100 a week is cheap daycare. I charge
$175 a week to look after a dog !

 

[tmlkenney]

...and $100/week is still a 33% discount from the new "standard" rate of $150/week.

 

[sawkiller]

If the guys business is hurting so bad that 25 bucks a week will make a difference then you should pay up. $100 a week is cheap daycare. I charge
$175 a week to look after a dog !

I am obvously in the wrong line of work!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

The best way to keep friendships friendly is to keep business businesslike.

Don't do these "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" deals unless it is either:

1. Spelled out in writing the same as any other business deal.
2. Something you can walk away from with no hard feelings.

Sounds like you missed on both counts.


Your friend is wrong. Now you have to decide if you are going to live with it or kill the friendship.

 

[CWME]

Thanks for the help everyone. I am going to finish fueling up with coffee and then head over to cut his wood. A deal was a deal.

I will see about talking to him when he gets home. Having a years supply of wood cut should soften his heart a little for some conversation. He needs to know how I feel.

Thanks again everyone

 

[Jredsjeep]

if you are going with the new agreement get it in writing. that is still cheap, it hurts but maybe you could comprimise on the price.

i honestly dont think he was to far out of line, i think it could have been handled better.

if agreements are spelled out and written down it makes it much clearer for everyone involved. the biggest thing is to keep the communication open so both side know where each other is coming from. is the rufusing to answer calls and cold shoulder attitude that are going to shut things down for good.

i cant say all will be jolly but you should be able to work something out.

and on a side note, putting all new brake lines on a truck to me is not a "waste" of money its a safety item you dont want to cheat on, especially if he is driving your kid around! now if he were buying speed parts whole other story.

just my 2 cents from what i read

 

[CWME]

I got his wood cut up to pay for the brake job he did on my truck.

I decided that what little I have said about this situation last week was enough to get my feelings across. Opening the wound again would only get me mad and I say things that I wouldn't normally when angry. He gets it, he was nervous to come over to talk to me, feel better now that I let it go.

My Wife asked for a written contract that we will sit down and sign next week.

We will leave it at that I guess. I feel good that I am leaving it on even ground with cutting his wood for him. If they have hard feelings towards us it is not because of words spoken or actions on my Family's part.

Thank you all for your advice!

 

[coalman]

His only hardship that I can see to date is that he was denied a refinancing loan on his house. He got it into his head that he should be able to refinance with the low rates and cut his mortgage in half, IE 15 years.
They said that his debt to income was too high to go for the 15 year note.

Two weeks later we get hit with the price increase. Assuming everyone at the daycare got the same rate increase they just got a 20k a year raise.

His work cut him off of all after hours cash jobs and add that to a slow economy he is not making anything near what he used to.

Our families used to work together to make it through. Our wives buy food in bulk to save $ etc. He fixed one of my cars and I would fix whatever it was that needed fixing around the house.

I guess where I am at is that he refused the $ for the brakes. He didn't say if I should cut his firewood or not. 5+ cords need to be cut and split.
I don't want this on my shoulders that I backed out of the deal. I don't want to loose my daughter's ability to go to the daycare either. In the end it is still cheaper for her to go there than a daycare center where she is a number.

I don't know if I should load the gear and go cutting tomorrow or not.

If he would of been claiming all the money he made his debt to loan rate would of been higher It is his own fault

 

[angelo c]

I got his wood cut up to pay for the brake job he did on my truck.

I decided that what little I have said about this situation last week was enough to get my feelings across. Opening the wound again would only get me mad and I say things that I wouldn't normally when angry. He gets it, he was nervous to come over to talk to me, feel better now that I let it go.

My Wife asked for a written contract that we will sit down and sign next week.

We will leave it at that I guess. I feel good that I am leaving it on even ground with cutting his wood for him. If they have hard feelings towards us it is not because of words spoken or actions on my Family's part.

Thank you all for your advice!

So while you were putting in a 10k kitchen you were his "best" friend...he liked you so much that he had you do some more work at his business venture. Well things aren't going so well for him now and he again leans on his "friend" for some more support in the means of additional than agreed upon funds for daycare. I'ld split the wood as you already agreed to it and change your cell phone number. This isn't a friend, its a child, and you seem to have that covered already. Unless you really like taking care of children then by all means keep this guy around. I've found that the older I get the less "friends" I have. I have more business associates but not too many friends. My kids know who my friends are as they are all called "uncle" Dennis or "uncle" Tommy and so on. I treat them like brothers or associates.

 

[Iska3]

I'd have to be IN the situation to advise you on what way to go. I have a couple life long friends, and I wouldn't let a day care price increase end our friendships (under the right circumstances). I have other long time friends, that it would end our friendships. If he is truely a good friend, then you should be able to SEE his hardship. Have they been going without anything? If so...... the hardship is real. If their lifestyle isn't suffering........ move on and make a new friend. If you see that they are struggling, then I say the cabinets, etc. is water over the dam.

I agree with Ductape, If he is truly a good friend, then you should be able to SEE his hardship.

It's best to keep an open mind. Until we walk in their shoes, who am I to judge their call for help. Only you know what is right to do. Go by the feeling in your heart.

 

[flewism]

If he would of been claiming all the money he made his debt to loan rate would of been higher It is his own fault

Agreed, He is working to eliminate his families debts, which is good.
In doing this he is willing to test friendships to generate income and see where the chips fall. His family still appears valuable to your family because of the reduced daycare cost. This is turning into a normal business relationship where one partner is seeing diminishing returns.
Right now he has the upper hand as you have conceded to the demands.
Don't let it happen again.
When the time is right it is time for you to diplomatically enforce your will on the relationship.

 

[msvold]

So while you were putting in a 10k kitchen you were his "best" friend...he liked you so much that he had you do some more work at his business venture. Well things aren't going so well for him now and he again leans on his "friend" for some more support in the means of additional than agreed upon funds for daycare. I'ld split the wood as you already agreed to it and change your cell phone number. This isn't a friend, its a child, and you seem to have that covered already. Unless you really like taking care of children then by all means keep this guy around. I've found that the older I get the less "friends" I have. I have more business associates but not too many friends. My kids know who my friends are as they are all called "uncle" Dennis or "uncle" Tommy and so on. I treat them like brothers or associates.

I have to agree with Angelo - the older I get (now 46), I realize that my wife is my best friend, yeah I've got a few good buddies that I help out or they help me out occasionally, but the only one focused on the same long term goals with me is my best friend. BTW we had cabinet work done for our kitchen a few years ago, $10K in cabinet work would have been a great deal. At $75/ week savings for child care, thats 2 1/2 years to pay that debt down, and that doesn't include the work done to get his child care business up and operating.
Not trying to put a strain on your friendship but I think your gut reaction that caused you to write this post was probably right.

 

[johncinco]

Good child care is priceless. Good friends even more so. Sounds like you still have a big discount on the daycare, even with a higher price.

The state of MI just "unionized" all day care providers. Without their consent or vote. You wanna talk about an increase!

My column of favors for friends always seems to be well stacked in my favor. If I ever call and need something, they better come running. I have never had a problem collecting when the time comes. At the same time, I don't go too far out of the way to help someone who I know will never bother to help when I need it. Then you have those people that can't help themselves, will never be able to help you, and need the help anyway. You just do those and wright it off to penance for something you should have done anyway.

 

[logbutcher]

You got plenty of advice here. Do the right thing for yourself; think of it as creative selfishness.

Best solution for both parties: get a third mutual aquaintance/friend/minister. Seriously. Someone with no dog in the fight. Sit down in a neutral setting with clear-cut goals stated. No emotions. Just negotiate.

Otherwise, step back, decide how this "friendship" is beneficial for you. Make the decision with a clear head, and move on.

The bill is in the mail.

 

[freemind]

So while you were putting in a 10k kitchen you were his "best" friend...he liked you so much that he had you do some more work at his business venture. Well things aren't going so well for him now and he again leans on his "friend" for some more support in the means of additional than agreed upon funds for daycare. I'ld split the wood as you already agreed to it and change your cell phone number. This isn't a friend, its a child, and you seem to have that covered already. Unless you really like taking care of children then by all means keep this guy around. I've found that the older I get the less "friends" I have. I have more business associates but not too many friends. My kids know who my friends are as they are all called "uncle" Dennis or "uncle" Tommy and so on. I treat them like brothers or associates.

Couldn't agree more. I have had many "friends" over my lifetime that were friends, so long as they got what they were after. If this guy is so worried about cash, let him do some simple math. How much would the work you did cost him if anyone else had done it?

Then figure what his payments to a bank would have been over a 3-5 year term with interest.

25 bucks a week isn't going to make him or break him. He just dooped you.

Were it me, and it HAS been, I would cut my ties with him and the daycare. Call me anti-social or whatever, I don't like getting screwed over. He would not be considered a friend of mine. Especially after breaking his word they way he did.

 

[svon89]

True good friends are hard to come by. Not too sure if you have one there or not, that is something only you can answer.

I am one of those types that will try and help someone out whenever I can, but I know that if I were stuck out in the woods, in a bind someway, or just needed someone, there is only one who would be there to help me(besides my wife).

Also, when you were building the cabinets, were you out of work, or did you put off other work in the shop to be able to help out? If a set of cabinets start to finish took three weeks was there any other money being generated during that time?

Just a little story:
I had a plasma cutter that I used for one project of my own, then had friends who needed this or that cut. No problem, I did it for them. When I was at the parts counter of the welding shop buying new consumables I decided that I could save money by getting rid of the plasma cutter. Now I see one of those 5 friends. Were they really friends or someone who needed something.

I think if he were a good friend he would have had you buy the brake lines and done the work to help keep your kids safe.

Just my $.02 I am opinionated, so don't pay too much to what I say.