what's the deal with super split

[Hedgerow]

productivity and ease of use is the debate.

to get four pieces i pick up a log put it on the splitter pull the levers and in 6 seconds ive got four pieces and i touched the log once. for the same result with the ss you need to make 3 splits and handle it 3 times thus making more time and more work. but great to blow through a pile of 4 inch rounds.

What did you pay for your TW-5???

 

[Circle B MN]

productivity and ease of use is the debate.

to get four pieces i pick up a log put it on the splitter pull the levers and in 6 seconds ive got four pieces and i touched the log once. for the same result with the ss you need to make 3 splits and handle it 3 times thus making more time and more work. but great to blow through a pile of 4 inch rounds.

How big are those four pieces you've now got....? Does that 6 seconds include the return stroke...? How long will it take you to resize each of those four pieces...?

I will have to take a look around the web as I only have it in print, but Sawmill and Woodlot Magazine has done several firewood "shootouts". The goal being for each competitor to process x amount of wood in the least amount of time, each piece of wood being able to fit through a 5x5" (or similiar) opening. The results may surprise you.

 

[Circle B MN]

What did you pay for your TW-5???

Enough for a SS and 60 cords of oak logs delivered....

 

[Hedgerow]

How big are those four pieces you've now got....? Does that 6 seconds include the return stroke...? How long will it take you to resize each of those four pieces...?

I will have to take a look around the web as I only have it in print, but Sawmill and Woodlot Magazine has done several firewood "shootouts". The goal being for each competitor to process x amount of wood in the least amount of time, each piece of wood being able to fit through a 5x5" (or similiar) opening. The results may surprise you.

They wouldn't surprise me... When it comes to selling firewood around here, the smaller the splits, the happier the customers... Except a couple ole boys with OWB's... As far as small split production, it's hard to beat the SS... And they're cheap compared to a TW-5 or 6, which are awesome machines in their own right... $$$$$$$

 

[EXCALIBER]

Each person has different needs in wood split size and different size of rounds. I am not against the ss if it suits your needs that's great. What I am saying is I have never seen a stove so small you had to split all your splits into 5"x5" pieces or smaller. I spit all mine to 8-10 inch diameter 16 to 27 inch long. Everybody I have ever seen burn wood is usually around the same diameter. No need to re-split on a 8 way for most size pieces. Never having run a ss I can only use what I know about them through videos of people running them and reviews I see. I don't see any of the ss crowd putting a 3ft diameter 16 inch long round on their splitters. Please post a video of someone doing this and we will see how long it takes to split for those of use who do not get the little pieces of wood to process. I have used videos of guys processing as fast as they can to get the cycle times ect to compare. I would not be afraid to put a good 8 way against a ss anyday for what most people use to heat their home. Now in you need baby kindling for your stove you may want to consider a ss or a hyd splitter with a grid pattern head.
[video=youtube_share;G6A94EtGQ_c]http://youtu.be/G6A94EtGQ_c[/video]
As far as cost you can build an 8 way for the same price as to buy a ss or less.

 

[Hedgerow]

Each person has different needs in wood split size and different size of rounds. I am not against the ss if it suits your needs that's great. What I am saying is I have never seen a stove so small you had to split all your splits into 5"x5" pieces or smaller. I spit all mine to 8-10 inch diameter 16 to 27 inch long. Everybody I have ever seen burn wood is usually around the same diameter. No need to re-split on a 8 way for most size pieces. Never having run a ss I can only use what I know about them through videos of people running them and reviews I see. I don't see any of the ss crowd putting a 3ft diameter 16 inch long round on their splitters. Please post a video of someone doing this and we will see how long it takes to split for those of use who do not get the little pieces of wood to process. I have used videos of guys processing as fast as they can to get the cycle times ect to compare. I would not be afraid to put a good 8 way against a ss anyday for what most people use to heat their home. Now in you need baby kindling for your stove you may want to consider a ss or a hyd splitter with a grid pattern head.
[video=youtube_share;G6A94EtGQ_c]http://youtu.be/G6A94EtGQ_c[/video]

I would rather see a video of you lifting your massive Nebraska wood on to your hydraulic splitter...
Just sayin...
:monkey:

 

[Hddnis]

productivity and ease of use is the debate.

to get four pieces i pick up a log put it on the splitter pull the levers and in 6 seconds ive got four pieces and i touched the log once. for the same result with the ss you need to make 3 splits and handle it 3 times thus making more time and more work. but great to blow through a pile of 4 inch rounds.

To get that kind of cycle time you are running at least a 22gpm pump through a 4" cylinder with a 2" ram, splitting force of 18 tons and have reasonably at least a 16hp engine. To buy that kind of set-up you are looking at laying down around 5k at a minimum. (Custom and one off builds excepted)

Any piece of wood where you can get four finished splits in a single cycle you could use a four way on a SS type machine just as easily. So basically your comparison is not real world. You are putting artificial limits on one machine and setting up the other machine to have an advantage. The physics don't support your assertion and neither do real world comparisons.

A hydro splitter is a big lever, it uses a lot of rotations of the engine to move the ram a little bit, yielding many times the force. A SS type machine, similar to a hybrid, stores energy to release on a work cycle. Actual work required from each machine is the same since it takes the same amount of energy to split a given cord of wood regardless of how it is done. System efficencies are better with a SS because of lower friction. A hydro machine needs a big fluid tank and often a cooler because it turns a lot of energy from the engine into heat. A SS type machine uses on average a third of the fuel per cord split over a hydro splitter, some operators claim more.

If you're really out to beat a SS why don't you compare it to a table type splitter with a 60hp diesel that lets a single operator turn out 40 cords in a single day? Or, maybe compare it to a processor that cuts and splits with a five second cycle time, turning out 4-7 cords and hour? You see how silly that would be? It isn't fair to stack the deck one way or the other. A true understanding of the different machine types and firewood production knows when to use which machine.

If you own a hydro splitter good for you, go out and make firewood. I own and use one. If you own a SS type machine great, go and and make firewood. I own and use one more often than my hydro splitter. My shop is well enough equipped to make just about whatever kind of machine I want and I'm not adding any hydro splitters, with muti-wedges or otherwise.




Mr. HE

 

[Hddnis]

Each person has different needs in wood split size and different size of rounds. I am not against the ss if it suits your needs that's great. What I am saying is I have never seen a stove so small you had to split all your splits into 5"x5" pieces or smaller. I spit all mine to 8-10 inch diameter 16 to 27 inch long. Everybody I have ever seen burn wood is usually around the same diameter. No need to re-split on a 8 way for most size pieces. Never having run a ss I can only use what I know about them through videos of people running them and reviews I see. I don't see any of the ss crowd putting a 3ft diameter 16 inch long round on their splitters. Please post a video of someone doing this and we will see how long it takes to split for those of use who do not get the little pieces of wood to process. I have used videos of guys processing as fast as they can to get the cycle times ect to compare. I would not be afraid to put a good 8 way against a ss anyday for what most people use to heat their home. Now in you need baby kindling for your stove you may want to consider a ss or a hyd splitter with a grid pattern head.
[video=youtube_share;G6A94EtGQ_c]http://youtu.be/G6A94EtGQ_c[/video]
As far as cost you can build an 8 way for the same price as to buy a ss or less.

I know a few guys who like bigger splits and longer lengths like you mention. Frankly as far as firewood production it lets you make more cords per hour and far lower cost per cord of production. Very few people that burn such a size of wood are buying firewood, they mostly make their own or order it custom cut sometimes. I've never met or sold to one that wasn't using it in an OWB.

Stove I grew up with took 16" max firewood and 3" or smaller splits worked best as the door was only 10"x12". It would burn all night with a load of wood, soft or hard, and had no trouble heating our humble 2400s.f. home. Most stoves sold and used today take this size of wood. Most people buying firewood want this size of wood. In Europe it is even smaller, about 8-12" seeming to be the norm.

I've had people call and not want wood with splinters, some want wood without bark, some only want fruit wood. I make money making what sells and I find little to no demand for larger splits and longer lengths. 16"x 3-4" splits are fast becoming the standard size here in the US, if you want to sell a different size you have to advertise it as such because people assume firewood for sale is in this size range.




Mr. HE

 

[Circle B MN]

Each person has different needs in wood split size and different size of rounds. I am not against the ss if it suits your needs that's great. What I am saying is I have never seen a stove so small you had to split all your splits into 5"x5" pieces or smaller. I spit all mine to 8-10 inch diameter 16 to 27 inch long. Everybody I have ever seen burn wood is usually around the same diameter. No need to re-split on a 8 way for most size pieces. Never having run a ss I can only use what I know about them through videos of people running them and reviews I see. I don't see any of the ss crowd putting a 3ft diameter 16 inch long round on their splitters. Please post a video of someone doing this and we will see how long it takes to split for those of use who do not get the little pieces of wood to process. I have used videos of guys processing as fast as they can to get the cycle times ect to compare. I would not be afraid to put a good 8 way against a ss anyday for what most people use to heat their home. Now in you need baby kindling for your stove you may want to consider a ss or a hyd splitter with a grid pattern head.
[video=youtube_share;G6A94EtGQ_c]http://youtu.be/G6A94EtGQ_c[/video]
As far as cost you can build an 8 way for the same price as to buy a ss or less.

You also don't see anybody putting one on a Cord King, a MultiTek, a Built-Rite, or any other high production machine.

In the time you spend wresting around that 36" block I can noodle it into three twelve in slabs and toss it on the SS....BUT...if we are talking about high volume production equipment made for high volume producers, 36" blocks are not a factor as nobody in the business is messing with them. Joe Homeowner maybe, but volume producers are not going to monkey with that stuff when it's too easy to order up a truckload of bolts and go crazy...

ETA.....I would pay for a truck load of bolts, before I took a truckload of 36" wood for free....:msp_thumbup:

 

[Hedgerow]

You also don't see anybody putting one on a Cord King, a MultiTek, a Built-Rite, or any other high production machine.

In the time you spend wresting around that 36" block I can noodle it into three twelve in slabs and toss it on the SS....BUT...if we are talking about high volume production equipment made for high volume producers, 36" blocks are not a factor as nobody in the business is messing with them. Joe Homeowner maybe, but volume producers are not going to monkey with that stuff when it's too easy to order up a truckload of bolts and go crazy...

ETA.....I would pay for a truck load of bolts, before I took a truckload of 36" wood for free....:msp_thumbup:

Agreed... Of course I don't get that luxury, but I been thinkin' real hard about it... Still clearing fencerows... :msp_mad:

 

[natems361]

What did you pay for your TW-5???

6,500 with log lift and hydraulic wedge. Pumped out 65,000 in wood though. Got my money back and then some in the first year

 

[buildmyown]

I have read a lot of people's posts on this site about the super split. I watched the vids on the super split website. Just wondering why people rave about this machine. I think a fast hydraulic splitter with a 4 way would be faster., and a lot easier on the operator.

The vids on the website are old and outdated. The reason we owners rave about these machines is they are fast simple reliable made in the USA infact only about 45mins from me and cheap to operate easy to move

I know its different machines, but the claim for productivity against hydraulic splitters isn't true. If you could put a four way on the super split it would be untouchable, but you would probably lose your hands. Those guys in the vids a moving super fast. I know I couldn't keep that pace.just saying a fast four way would be more productive. I would go head to head with one.

Thats just the thing you dont have to keep that pace even if you move slower you can still produce lots of wood.

I have seen this debate before and have raised my doubts of the ss being any faster than a good 6-8 way hydraulic splitter. It just depends on the wood I guess. If you were only splitting 10 inch diameter rounds of wood the ss would be faster, however, most every piece of wood I split minus the limbs are in the 2ft on up to 6 ft diameter range. I would say average around 3ft diameter for most all the wood. How many times would you have to cycle the splitter to split a 3ft dia round on a ss? 10? 15? or more right. So take 3 second cycle time time at 10 splits and you have 30 seconds spend splitting. Now keep in mind this does not allow ANY time to reposition the wood for a resplit. Now thinking it will take at least 3-5 more seconds to reposition the split so you don't take your hand off, and add another 30 seconds to the split time for a total time to split a 3 ft diameter round at over a minute. Now considering cycle time on a good 6-8 way splitter at about 20 seconds or less that means the ss is 40 seconds slower to split the same round. I am sure it could be faster in some cases but is totally useless to most people I know as it is right now. Why would I want to noodle up every piece of wood into smaller chunks in order to split it? Everybody has different needs but I know here in the western side of the world our wood is not all 6-16 diameter wood. Further some of the wood these guys are splitting with the ss does not need to be split to start with just put it in the stove already.

Now for making kindling if you needed some the ss might be good. Perhaps put the ss into a "honey I blew up the splitter" machine and super size the ss to about 5 times its current size and it would be useful. Put 1000lb flywheels on it with a 8 way splitter head and you would have something.

Our wood out here in the east is not all 6-16 inch pecker poles. I would have to say the best size wood for a SS is 24" dia and under. Anything bigger is just to akward to handle safely. All a SS needs is some type of log lift and the sky is the limit as to what it will split. As for making kindling i split all my wood down to about 5X5 it dries faster easier to handle and the small stove in my living room likes smaller wood. If I put 2 10" logs in my stove its full and burns like crap and yes the wood is dry. If the SS didnt work a small local company still wouldnt be around 30 years latter and selling around 20 units a month.

6,500 with log lift and hydraulic wedge. Pumped out 65,000 in wood though. Got my money back and then some in the first year

By you numbers you sell roughly 300 cords a year. Thats a hell of an operation where in Mass are you?

 

[natems361]

How big are those four pieces you've now got....? Does that 6 seconds include the return stroke...? How long will it take you to resize each of those four pieces...?

I will have to take a look around the web as I only have it in print, but Sawmill and Woodlot Magazine has done several firewood "shootouts". The goal being for each competitor to process x amount of wood in the least amount of time, each piece of wood being able to fit through a 5x5" (or similiar) opening. The results may surprise you.

Yes that includes return. I do sell allot of bigger wood, own are common, and the pointer stoves, Moe and big Moe seem like an old favorite. I also sell a hack of a lot of 16" smaller stuff 5X5. Its how well you can work the 4 way( for me) lets say a 20" log, lift the wedge up, quarter it, then drop wedge send em through for 16 pieces, for the odd size logs offset to side to produce a couple keepers every cycle. In the end its all hard work. This machine fits me, and I know it all to well. Bottom line there is no use for an ss for me. I just did not like the productivity claim. Also if a 4 6 8 wedge was not an option,I would own a ss tomorrow!

 

[buildmyown]

Each person has different needs in wood split size and different size of rounds. I am not against the ss if it suits your needs that's great. What I am saying is I have never seen a stove so small you had to split all your splits into 5"x5" pieces or smaller. I spit all mine to 8-10 inch diameter 16 to 27 inch long. Everybody I have ever seen burn wood is usually around the same diameter. No need to re-split on a 8 way for most size pieces. Never having run a ss I can only use what I know about them through videos of people running them and reviews I see. I don't see any of the ss crowd putting a 3ft diameter 16 inch long round on their splitters. Please post a video of someone doing this and we will see how long it takes to split for those of use who do not get the little pieces of wood to process. I have used videos of guys processing as fast as they can to get the cycle times ect to compare. I would not be afraid to put a good 8 way against a ss anyday for what most people use to heat their home. Now in you need baby kindling for your stove you may want to consider a ss or a hyd splitter with a grid pattern head.
As far as cost you can build an 8 way for the same price as to buy a ss or less.

Then you havent seen a lot stoves the one im burning in right now in my living room will only take a 17" long log I split everything down to about 5X5 its burns better dries quicker and easier to handle.

 

[buildmyown]

Yes that includes return. I do sell allot of bigger wood, own are common, and the pointer stoves, Moe and big Moe seem like an old favorite. I also sell a hack of a lot of 16" smaller stuff 5X5. Its how well you can work the 4 way( for me) lets say a 20" log, lift the wedge up, quarter it, then drop wedge send em through for 16 pieces, for the odd size logs offset to side to produce a couple keepers every cycle. In the end its all hard work. This machine fits me, and I know it all to well. Bottom line there is no use for an ss for me. I just did not like the productivity claim. Also if a 4 6 8 wedge was not an option,I would own a ss tomorrow!

With all the wood bucked and piled near the splitter and being under 24" in dia I can average a cord an hour what can your TW ave an hour.

 

[natems361]

The vids on the website are old and outdated. The reason we owners rave about these machines is they are fast simple reliable made in the USA infact only about 45mins from me and cheap to operate easy to move




Thats just the thing you dont have to keep that pace even if you move slower you can still produce lots of wood.



Our wood out here in the east is not all 6-16 inch pecker poles. I would have to say the best size wood for a SS is 24" dia and under. Anything bigger is just to akward to handle safely. All a SS needs is some type of log lift and the sky is the limit as to what it will split. As for making kindling i split all my wood down to about 5X5 it dries faster easier to handle and the small stove in my living room likes smaller wood. If I put 2 10" logs in my stove its full and burns like crap and yes the wood is dry. If the SS didnt work a small local company still wouldnt be around 30 years latter and selling around 20 units a month.



By you numbers you sell roughly 300 cords a year. Thats a hell of an operation where in Mass are you?

sorry that wasn't clear. I do a average75 cord per year. 65000 was a ball park number for the years ive owned it. And I'm in hampden county.

 

[CUCV]

Anybody that doesn't have time running both is really only running their mouth.
Mr. HE

I just picked up a used TW5 with 4way, 6 way wedge and log lift, largely because there are few people who can make that very comparison and I got a sweet deal. I'm really interested to see how it compares to my electric SS and my SS with 4-way. There is no doubt I will enjoy the log lift for large rounds but I find many creative ways to get the large rounds on my SS.

The TW5 definitely has 10 sec cycle time. The unit I got has been used and abused and needs some work. I may put a pic thread together on the rebuild. I think it uses more hydraulic oil than gas right now. You wont have that problem with the SS. I just finished rebuilding all the valve bodies, replaced some hoses and the wedge cylinder. The push ram was bent, fixed that last weekend. Now I just have to rebuild the cylinder and fix the bent I-beam.

My clients like the small wood for their small stoves and I get more money for my wood. The guys with the processors can have the larger wood market and lower associated price. Maybe some day I will have more land, wood, bigger equipment to play in that market. For now I want to maximize earnings on the quantity of wood I have time to produce and the SS helps me do just that.

 

[natems361]

With all the wood bucked and piled near the splitter and being under 24" in dia I can average a cord an hour what can your TW ave an hour.

Alone 45 tops per cord. One good helper two an hour

 

[natems361]

I just picked up a used TW5 with 4way, 6 way wedge and log lift, largely because there are few people who can make that very comparison and I got a sweet deal. I'm really interested to see how it compares to my electric SS and my SS with 4-way. There is no doubt I will enjoy the log lift for large rounds but I find many creative ways to get the large rounds on my SS.

The TW5 definitely has 10 sec cycle time. The unit I got has been used and abused and needs some work. I may put a pic thread together on the rebuild. I think it uses more hydraulic oil than gas right now. You wo Drnt have that problem with the SS. I just finished rebuilding all the valve bodies, replaced some hoses and the wedge cylinder. The push ram was bent, fixed that last weekend. Now I just have to rebuild the cylinder and fix the bent I-beam.

My clients like the small wood for their small stoves and I get more money for my wood. The guys with the processors can have the larger wood market and lower associated price. Maybe some day I will have more land, wood, bigger equipment to play in that market. For now I want to maximize earnings on the quantity of wood I have time to produce and the SS helps me do just that.

the tw5 when I bought it had two models. The tw5 and the tw5 fc( fast cycle6 seconds)

 

[CUCV]

Alone 45 tops per cord. One good helper two an hour

Didn't happen if there is no video ;-) haha