Why Klotz?

[akennyd]

I know there are a few on here that run Klotz oils. Simple question: Why?

Is it from experience? (By experience I mean have you seen something from tearing down your engine that you like when you use this oil? etc.)

Personally I would like to try Klotz for some reason, honestly just because some people on here use it and seem to have success with it. Honestly, that's what it boils down to. But....I'm having a hard time making the purchase simply because the Klotz oils (as far as I know) are not rated by API or JASO.

Right now I'm running Pennzoil Air Cooled in my stuff based on it being API TC rated (it's also listed on the JASO list for as FC and FD but Pennzoil does not indicate this on their labeling) and being specifically labeled for "air cooled." I've also seen more than one test online where it was noted for it's clean burning. Before the Pennzoil, I was running Mobil 1 2t (which is rated JASO FC) but it was listed in one of those tests and did not do as well as the Pennzoil for cleaness, ran hotter, and didn't make as much power as the Pennzoil. Pennzoil is now phasing out the Air Cooled and of course the Mobil is also gone. I've stocked up on the Pennzoil but have been in search of another "better" replacement oil. I had disregarded the Stihl branded oils earlier but looked at them again a day or two ago and was pleasantly surprised to see their "Super" oil listed as JASO-FD and exceeding API-TC. I think this is what will be switching to in the future.

Any thoughts? Why use a non-rated oil? I'm now ducking for cover! Let the cursing begin!!!!!!!

Kenny
John 3:16

 

[eyolf]

My opinion isn't worth a whole lot, as I am not an oil-industry engineer. But Here goes.

I am not a fan of the Pennz air-cooled. AFAIK, it is dino oil with NO or low synthetic additives. It will meet TC standards, but as some know, nobody is actually testing to those lower standards anymore. They actually fall just short of the JASO FB for smoke. I havent encountered any info as to how they compare to the current ISO standards for lubricity, shear, deposit formation, etc, but taking into account that the TC standards are years out of date and nobody really uses them anymore, I'd guess that TC oils won't measure up.

Which brings up another point: since the TC rating is no longer used or policed, how does one know if the oil is OK?

KLotz and a few others sell a high quality product, but don't pay the testing lab fees just to get a label. Their testing lab is the customer, who wouldn't use the product if it wasn't performing. IMO, these cachet oils are a bit of overkill for most users. The weekend firewood guy with his 029 or Husky 350 isn't going to be working his equipment hard enough to require it.

If that user hasn't maintained his saw or adjusted the carb properly, I can't see the oil making the difference to keep it going.

***********

I stopped by a motorsports shop recently and brought home a quart of KLotz R50. It does smell nice. I imagine it burns even cleaner than the synthetic blend I have been using, but its about $9 a quart more, and my blend is available at a farm store I visit often.

 

[akennyd]

Thanks eyolf.

Pennzoil is a dino oil but it is on the JASO list as a FC and FD. Don't ask me why two listings but it is at least rated as FC.

I tend to agree that the average user will never know the difference but what the heck, if a person never asks or investigates then he or she will never know which may be the better oil to use.

I had a consumer grade weedwacker burn itself up on a synthetic oil I found at Wally world (wasn't wally brand). I personally won't use that oil again but that is just me. Can I say it was the oil's fault? No not for sure but that was the start of my search for a better grade of oil. I bought a Stihl brush cutter to replace the dead one and have used only orange bottle Stihl oil (less than two bottles), Mobil 1 (about a half quart) and now Pennzoil in (several bottles). I've run it VERY hard (commercial type use) in a three acre blue berry field for a few years now with no trouble what so ever.

Kenny

John 3:16

 

[MCW]

I think some high expense synthetics are a bit of a toss myself. If an oil works, it works but each to their own.
I have been using a full synthetic oil made by ALCO in the US but marketed by the Australian Carlton importers under their own name. This stuff is excellent value and as cheap or cheaper than most mineral oils on the market. Smells lovely too
I had been using Castrol TTS exclusively which costs about AUD$27 per litre. The gear I get would sell for near half that. Is it better than TTS? No. But is it worse? No.
I ran my modded 7900 for nearly 24 hours on the weekend just gone (we had a 3 day weekend here in South Australia). The plug was as clean when I finished as when I started and my saw didn't seize.
If you are racing saws that are running on a knife edge maybe an issue would expose itself? In my situation with basically a "woods" ported 7900 I can't see that paying the earth for "top end" synthetics is worth it, no matter how many tests have been done and how many letters are added after it's name.
My "Snellerized" 7900 has had around 30 gallons put through it now at 50:1 using this oil and it's running a treat.

 

[akennyd]

Thanks MCW,

That's what I'm looking for. Some real world experience with oils.

I'm hoping to pull my Stihl brush cutter (250) apart this winter to take a look at it. As I said it has been mostly run on Pennzoil so I'm interested in seeing what the insides look like and what wear is happening. Right now I can recommend the Pennzoil and it seems to burn clean but I have no actual basis as far as mechanical wear goes.

Kenny
John 3:16

 

[akennyd]

BTW MCW,

I can get Castrol TTS for $7.95 US plus shipping, haven't looked for it local but have investigated it online. It's JASO FD rated.

Kenny
John 3:16

 

[TDunk]

All of my experience with oils goes back to when i was racing motocross (back when two strokes ruled) I've ran Belray MC1, H1R, Maxima, Klotz, Redline, Spectra, Yamalube and a few others. All of them did the job, and really never had any oil related issues. With that said though, the Klotz R50 seemed to have less carbon build up and didn't show as much wear between re-builds. Same with the transmission oils too, i wasn't adjusting the clutch as much as with other oils and was getting more life too.

 

[B_Turner]

Among the top oils, for me the final choice is based on smell and stink factor.

My favorite is still 2T, although I will be out of luck when my stockpile runs out.

 

[troutfisher]

Klotz makes oil that will blend with alcohol, most oils won't.

 

[gallegosmike]

I am using lucas semi-synthetic oil right now. It is really good stuff and very clean burning. Ive got a stash of of mobil 2T that I bought early this year to burn through. After the 2T, I am going to run castrol RS TTS full synthetic oil. I am of the understanding that it is pretty close to stihl ultra oil. I can by local to me castrol RS TTS for about $8.00 a quart.

 

[blsnelling]

I use it because of its untarnished reputation and local availability. I also use it because it offers the protection of castor bean oil with the cleanliness of a full synthetic.

 

[akennyd]

Brad,

Do you run Super TechniPlate or R50.

I was considering Super because it has some castor in it but maybe it would be too messy.

Thanks to all for the info and patience. I know this is kind of a dead horse type of thing.

Kenny
John 3:16

 

[blsnelling]

Brad,

Do you run Super TechniPlate or R50.

I was considering Super because it has some castor in it but maybe it would be too messy.

Thanks to all for the info and patience. I know this is kind of a dead horse type of thing.

Kenny
John 3:16

Check out their tech sheets. BeNOL, Super TechniPlate, R 50. The R50 matches the film strength and flash point of Benol, yet is cleaner burning than either Benol or Super Techniplate. Plus no cold weather seperation concerns like you have with castor oil.

The castor isn't necessarily messy, just not needed and may have cold weather seperation issues.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

Brad,

Do you run Super TechniPlate or R50.

I was considering Super because it has some castor in it but maybe it would be too messy.

Thanks to all for the info and patience. I know this is kind of a dead horse type of thing.

Kenny
John 3:16

I run R50 myself. I'm pretty sure that the Super Techniplate has 20% of Klotz Beanol in it - hence the castor.

I run the R50 mainly because I'm just burning gasoline (obviously) and not methanol or alcohol. I've run the Super numerous times as well. I never really noticed a difference between Super Techniplate and R50 - in 93 Octane gas both oils are practically the same. You'd probably need 100 octane + to really notice a difference.....


--
Edit: I'm not a professional on racing 2 stroke oil and high octane fuel! This is just my backyard observation!!

 

[epicklein22]

All of my experience with oils goes back to when i was racing motocross (back when two strokes ruled) I've ran Belray MC1, H1R, Maxima, Klotz, Redline, Spectra, Yamalube and a few others. All of them did the job, and really never had any oil related issues. With that said though, the Klotz R50 seemed to have less carbon build up and didn't show as much wear between re-builds. Same with the transmission oils too, i wasn't adjusting the clutch as much as with other oils and was getting more life too.

Yup, it is a toss up when talking about hi-end syn. oils. Just go with what smells good and costs the cheapest. Or try them all just for fun, that is what I'm doing right now.

 

[Andyshine77]

I pretty much agree with what's been said, you really can't go wrong with the top of the line syntheti ester oils. I run klotz because it runs clean. It's an ester synthetic, so it has the film strength I want, and it smells good. Super Techniplate is a good oil, but for every day use I prefer an oil without castor in it.

 

[cpr]

+1 on what most have said. I ran Stihl and Husky oils for years and switched to R50 this year. My saws and weed whip gained rpms from the switch and are easier to hold a tune with. Plus, it smells great with 100LL.

 

[TRI955]

What ever happened to our Klotz guy??? He was a member, Brad help me out....

 

[FATGUY]

A friend of mine (a good friend) gave me a quart of Klotz 50, and I've never looked back. Smells great, and keeps my saws "wet". I think Ultra is fine and probably just as good, but I'm gonna stick with Klotz 50. JMO. (BTW, my 2 favorite saw builders recomend it, BLS and EH!)

 

[stihlboy]

hmm the same friend put it in my saw and i could see a very slight improvement in power