Why Klotz?

[dancan]

I looked at the klotz website and can't find any mention of chainsaws mix ratio , did I miss something ?

 

[Andyshine77]

I looked at the klotz website and can't find any mention of chainsaws mix ratio , did I miss something ?

I think they're updating their website.

 

[redlinefever]

Alright this is what was told to me by a local dealer! Wondering if it is true or not he said[ quote that if you run klotz that u would in time build up residue or carbon behind the rings and eventually rings would not compress anymore and then you would need a rebuild] any truth to that guys i had a banshee and that is the only oil i would run in it they said it was the best u could by!

 

[Andyshine77]

Alright this is what was told to me by a local dealer! Wondering if it is true or not he said[ quote that if you run klotz that u would in time build up residue or carbon behind the rings and eventually rings would not compress anymore and then you would need a rebuild] any truth to that guys i had a banshee and that is the only oil i would run in it they said it was the best u could by!

That can happen with any oil, not just Koltz.

 

[redlinefever]

his reason was that it had castor bean oil in it and that it would be more prone to it . Right now im running ultra

 

[Andyshine77]

R50 has no castor oil in it, it's a full ester synthetic. Benol is 100% castor oil and Supertechinplate is a blend of 20% castor and 80% synthetic. All of these oils will work fine in a saw, but in the long haul full castor oil like Benol will eventually gum things up a bit. Supertechinplate would likely never give you any issues.

 

[akennyd]

Thanks to ALL for the very civil discussion about oils, it's been better and more informative than I imagined it would be!

I'm still weighing my future oil choice and I'll probably be trying more than just one but Klotz will be one of the first I try. Stopped by a motorhicky shop today but they only carried Kawasaki and Yamaha 2 stroke oils. No Klotz and no Amsoil.

Pulled the muffler on my saw this evening, it's been running on nothing but pennzoil air cooled for the first three tanks through it. Looked in at the piston and it already has the soft carbon showing on about 30-40% of the piston that I've seen in other pics in the online tests run with this oil. This carbon seemed to be already building up on the muffler screen. I'm running this oil at 32:1. Other than that, things looked pretty clean with a good oil film over the rings and cylinder.

Thanks again to all!!!

Kenny
John 3:16

 

[Ljute]

My nose must be wired different. I think the Klotz R50 stinks bad. Smells like burning laundry detergent, whatever that smells like...

 

[madhatte]

I remember hearing something about the old WWI Le Rhone and Gnome rotary engines awhile back. Seems they were powered by castor oil, and had the unfortunate side effect of giving pilots the ol' Montezuma's Revenge via their inhalation of the fumes. According to legend, as soon as a pilot would touch down on the ol' aerodrome, they'd make a bee-line for the latrine. Can you say "Ace In The Hole"?

 

[Andyshine77]

Thanks to ALL for the very civil discussion about oils, it's been better and more informative than I imagined it would be!

I'm still weighing my future oil choice and I'll probably be trying more than just one but Klotz will be one of the first I try. Stopped by a motorhicky shop today but they only carried Kawasaki and Yamaha 2 stroke oils. No Klotz and no Amsoil.

Pulled the muffler on my saw this evening, it's been running on nothing but pennzoil air cooled for the first three tanks through it. Looked in at the piston and it already has the soft carbon showing on about 30-40% of the piston that I've seen in other pics in the online tests run with this oil. This carbon seemed to be already building up on the muffler screen. I'm running this oil at 32:1. Other than that, things looked pretty clean with a good oil film over the rings and cylinder.

Thanks again to all!!!

Kenny
John 3:16

My list of the best syn 2 cycle oils on the market.

motul 800 2t
Silkolean PRO 2 SX
Stihl Ultra
Maxima Formula K2
Klotz R50
Klotz Supertechinplate
Bel-Ray H1R

 

[taddat]

Klotz guy update

What ever happened to our Klotz guy??? He was a member, Brad help me out....

Rick at Klotzlubemn. $9.00 per qt+shipping for R-50. I know he has been busy with getting oil out to the snowmobile crowd. The weather gods are talking "snow" in Minnesota soon. If you have any questions about Klotz, he is full of good info. I'm not an oil expert but I have been running Klotz from Rick in my cars, trucks, sleds, and saws for years with no problems.

 

[rms61moparman]

I know there are a few on here that run Klotz oils. Simple question: Why?

Because Andyshine77 told me to!

Anyone who has stock saws run as strong as his do MUST know what he's talking about!!!

 

[Andyshine77]

Because Andyshine77 told me to!

Anyone who has stock saws run as strong as his do MUST know what he's talking about!!!

lol:yourock::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[9050lx]

Ran Klotz in my air-cooled twin cylinder reed valve Yamaha RD-350(1975) street bike in the 70's Never any issues and ran clean.Ran the crap out of that poor thing.Used to pull nice wheelies in the first five gears. FUN FUN FUN when youre 15 and have a new license! I put almost 40,000 miles on that bike before i traded it for a dirt bike.Pretty good longetivity for a two stroke that made lots of RPM's.I do believe that motor was a direct descendant of the famous TZ road racers.

 

[Tzed250]

I use it because of its untarnished reputation and local availability. I also use it because it offers the protection of castor bean oil with the cleanliness of a full synthetic.

Check out their tech sheets. BeNOL, Super TechniPlate, R 50. The R50 matches the film strength and flash point of Benol, yet is cleaner burning than either Benol or Super Techniplate. Plus no cold weather seperation concerns like you have with castor oil.

The castor isn't necessarily messy, just not needed and may have cold weather seperation issues.

I run R50 myself. I'm pretty sure that the Super Techniplate has 20% of Klotz Beanol in it - hence the castor.

I run the R50 mainly because I'm just burning gasoline (obviously) and not methanol or alcohol. I've run the Super numerous times as well. I never really noticed a difference between Super Techniplate and R50 - in 93 Octane gas both oils are practically the same. You'd probably need 100 octane + to really notice a difference.....


--
Edit: I'm not a professional on racing 2 stroke oil and high octane fuel! This is just my backyard observation!!

I pretty much agree with what's been said, you really can't go wrong with the top of the line syntheti ester oils. I run klotz because it runs clean. It's an ester synthetic, so it has the film strength I want, and it smells good. Super Techniplate is a good oil, but for every day use I prefer an oil without castor in it.

R50 has no castor oil in it, it's a full ester synthetic. Benol is 100% castor oil and Supertechinplate is a blend of 20% castor and 80% synthetic. All of these oils will work fine in a saw, but in the long haul full castor oil like Benol will eventually gum things up a bit. Supertechinplate would likely never give you any issues.

Something that has not been metioned here is the why of running Castor oil or a Castor blend. Most lubrication is made up of polymer chains. For most oils these chains begin to break down in the presence of extreme heat. When the chains break down they provide less protection. The thing that sets Castor oil apart is the fact that under extreme heat the polymer chains actually grow. When a two-stroke is under extreme stress the temps can rise very quickly and the Castor oil responds to that need. This is why Castor blends are still very popular in racing, and especially with air cooled engines. The AC two-stroke can have temps go out of control quickly, and the bean oil helps to prevent seizure.

99% of the time the extra protection provided by natures little bean is not needed, but if you happen to slip into that last 1% you will be glad you had it.

Ran Klotz in my air-cooled twin cylinder reed valve Yamaha RD-350(1975) street bike in the 70's Never any issues and ran clean.Ran the crap out of that poor thing.Used to pull nice wheelies in the first five gears. FUN FUN FUN when youre 15 and have a new license! I put almost 40,000 miles on that bike before i traded it for a dirt bike.Pretty good longetivity for a two stroke that made lots of RPM's.I do believe that motor was a direct descendant of the famous TZ road racers.

The RD-350 was actually descended from the R-5. The R-5 has its roots in the TD and TR series of production racers, built in the '60s and early '70s. The TZ series started in 1973, bringing liquid cooling to the game and going on to be one of the most successful racing machines ever made.

For decades the only oil specified in the TZ owners manual was Castrol R30...

30 weight castor oil.




.

 

[9050lx]

Not that many guys ran castor oil in the 70's that I recall.I think most of us used Belray in our dirt bikes.I think fouled plugs were the issue.The RD was an evolution of the R5 obviously.What I was trying recall were the road racing motorcycles of the late 60's and early 70's made by Yamaha.

 

[Andyshine77]

Something that has not been metioned here is the why of running Castor oil or a Castor blend. Most lubrication is made up of polymer chains. For most oils these chains begin to break down in the presence of extreme heat. When the chains break down they provide less protection. The thing that sets Castor oil apart is the fact that under extreme heat the polymer chains actually grow. When a two-stroke is under extreme stress the temps can rise very quickly and the Castor oil responds to that need. This is why Castor blends are still very popular in racing, and especially with air cooled engines. The AC two-stroke can have temps go out of control quickly, and the bean oil helps to prevent seizure.

99% of the time the extra protection provided by natures little bean is not needed, but if you happen to slip into that last 1% you will be glad you had it.









The RD-350 was actually descended from the R-5. The R-5 has its roots in the TD and TR series of production racers, built in the '60s and early '70s. The TZ series started in 1973, bringing liquid cooling to the game and going on to be one of the most successful racing machines ever made.

For decades the only oil specified in the TZ owners manual was Castrol R30...

30 weight castor oil.




.

Very good and valid points. Like you said Castor oil does provide the best protection. However I'm sure we both agree that it is probably not the best idea to use caster oil under normal work applications.

 

[Tzed250]

Very good and valid points. Like you said Castor oil does provide the best protection. However I'm sure we both agree that it is probably not the best idea to use caster oil under normal work applications.

Pure castor, no. Some castor, such as Super Techniplate, maybe.

I run a mad scientist mix. Stihl Ultra mixed at 50:1, with 1 oz. per gallon Super Techniplate mixed in. Works out to about 36:1.

Here is a pic of the combustion chamber from my 660 after about 8 tanks of mix.

...notice my semi-indexed spark plug


Am I in another oil thread..?.


.

 

[Andyshine77]

LOL.

That cylinder does look good. I hear Klotz super, and 927 both run pretty clean, I've ran super without any issues. Now if you want smell, run Supertechinplate.

 

[J.W Younger]

I have not tried the r-50 but from what I,ve read here it seems like good enough.I have ran the klotz brand nitropropane in my bracket car. Smells real fruity.Anyone here ever ran nitropropane in a saw? Best I remember its about 30%
oxygen by weight so the mixture would have too be richened up .