Will this happen to STIHL????

[BloodOnTheIce]

Since the early 70's Stihl has been producing budget oriented homeowner aimed saws.
Though the definition of pro/ homeowner has changed over time and here on the 'net it is especially skewed, hard facts are Stihl has always made lower cost, high sales volume saws for homeowners.

The S-10, 08s, 011, 012, 015, 028, 030, 031, 040, 041 were all aimed at homeowners and / or firewood cutters.

One huge fact that everyone forgets is that Stihls is NOT a chainsaw company, they're a power equipment company. And Stihl sells as many if not more blowers, trimmers, cutoff machines than they do chainsaws. And this is where Stihl is stronger company than Husqvarna or the competition, they have the most complete line of handheld power equipment.

Husqvarna is a very good saw company, but their trimmers, and blowers were outdated until they bought red max.

Echo is very landscape equipment company with very good blowers, trimmers and hedge clippers
but that lack a presence in the 50cc+ firewood saw market.

Dolmar, Shindaiwa, Jonsered, Solo, Tanaka, Red Max, Kawasaki all make some good products but lack a good market presence.

 

[Storm56]

the big deal is the flippy cap is the only weak point in an otherwise excellent pro saw.
wouldn't care either way too, if the flippy cap worked like it should without constant failures.

companies that don't listen to their loyal customers end up losing them.

Good point! They lost me mainly over the caps, I am sure there are others.

 

[the swede]

the only stupid thing that Stihl has recently done is flippy caps.
a solution for a non-existent problem.

what's worry some is management at Stihl not listening to complaints.
folks have been complaining about flippy caps for years now. yet management refuses to acknowledge problems with flippy caps and keeps on putting em on new models.

finally Stihl issues a recall on flippy caps for certain models. which includes no chainsaws???
you cannot tell me Stihl management is not aware of the flippy cap problems....

The only "problem" with the "flippy caps" is that the people who can't use it has a "existent problem":msp_biggrin:

 

[weedeaterman]

All Great stuff

Love the great info.

Henry

 

[weedeaterman]

New discusion

Pop Quiz, What causes kick back on your small engines?

Henry

 

[homelitejim]

View attachment 189725


Is this the kind of junk that Homelite wants to represent?
Rather then there classic old Muscle saws like ther 1000?

The Homelite of today is only a name, not the great saw company of times long gone. The saws that are labeled with the Homelite name after the late 80's early 90's are built by a company that purchased the Homelite name only, trying to sell junk under the banner of a great saw company.

 

[WetGunPowder]

Here is something to think about. Stihl may not be in the box stores yet, buutttttt they offered every John Deere dealership in the USA their products. Many of these dealerships are real close to to existing dealers. In our town of 2000 people we now have 2 Stihl dealerships. I asked the original dealer about it when I found out what was up. He said Stihl told him to "like it or quit". Nice to see they value their dealers so much. Stihl may be a family held business but it appears that all they are worried about is the profits. I remember a few years ago when Husky said they would NEVER sell to box stores.

 

[indiansprings]

If you want to know why Husky had to go to the box stores to survive, look at the historical financial data sheets, under electrolux sales dropped like a rock as did profits, after they spun off and just operated as Husky sales/profits continued to drop, only when they went big box did sales start to track up. It has been on a upward trend for three or four years. Beginning last year and this year they have started to struggle again. Why?, guess which big box store narrowed their assortment of push lawn mower and trimmers, it was a huge loss of top line sales dollars. This year they are stating sales are down because of mfg issues in the United States along with distrobution problems in the US. Why do you think Husky just under went a huge management shake up. They have suffered a large decline in sales in the US market, they are betting the farm on the developing pacific rim/China market. Don't get me wrong they are still making money, put far from expectations.
I know the European mentality in business, I've dealt with them, they think they are so much more sophisticated and suave than us dumb azz Yankee's. What they need to do is hire a former executive from one of the large box stores in the US to help strategize how to run the business with big box stores. By the time they finally bury the pride and hire an American to help run that segment, I just hope they haven't started reached the point of a slow death spiral. Europe really doesn't have any big box operations that compare to the US. They have to learn how to limit their exposure while doing the business with the likes of Wally World and Lowe's. You do that by focusing on building your brand equity at the dealer level, giving them the quality and price points to compete with the big boxes, and market the hell out of the dealers.
You use the big box volume to keep your lines running and use your dealers for profit. Husky hasn't got that figured out yet, maybe this new management team can. Husky has to juggle at least two balls, big box and dealers. Stihl has to only juggle one. Which is easier to do. With each product you sell comes a ton of expense and behind the scenes support, inventory of parts, manuals etc. When you have as many models as Husky does under all the banner's Husky, Jonsered, Poulan etc. that is a ton of overhead. Compare that to Stihl's relatively narrow line. It's so easy to figure out it's not funny, but I'm nothing more than a firewood hack so what do I know!

 

[homelitejim]

If you want to know why Husky had to go to the box stores to survive, look at the historical financial data sheets, under electrolux sales dropped like a rock as did profits, after they spun off and just operated as Husky sales/profits continued to drop, only when they went big box did sales start to track up. It has been on a upward trend for three or four years. Beginning last year and this year they have started to struggle again. Why?, guess which big box store narrowed their assortment of push lawn mower and trimmers, it was a huge loss of top line sales dollars. This year they are stating sales are down because of mfg issues in the United States along with distrobution problems in the US. Why do you think Husky just under went a huge management shake up. They have suffered a large decline in sales in the US market, they are betting the farm on the developing pacific rim/China market. Don't get me wrong they are still making money, put far from expectations.
I know the European mentality in business, I've dealt with them, they think they are so much more sophisticated and suave than us dumb azz Yankee's. What they need to do is hire a former executive from one of the large box stores in the US to help strategize how to run the business with big box stores. By the time they finally bury the pride and hire an American to help run that segment, I just hope they haven't started reached the point of a slow death spiral. Europe really doesn't have any big box operations that compare to the US. They have to learn how to limit their exposure while doing the business with the likes of Wally World and Lowe's. You do that by focusing on building your brand equity at the dealer level, giving them the quality and price points to compete with the big boxes, and market the hell out of the dealers.
You use the big box volume to keep your lines running and use your dealers for profit. Husky hasn't got that figured out yet, maybe this new management team can. Husky has to juggle at least two balls, big box and dealers. Stihl has to only juggle one. Which is easier to do. With each product you sell comes a ton of expense and behind the scenes support, inventory of parts, manuals etc. When you have as many models as Husky does under all the banner's Husky, Jonsered, Poulan etc. that is a ton of overhead. Compare that to Stihl's relatively narrow line. It's so easy to figure out it's not funny, but I'm nothing more than a firewood hack so what do I know!

Amen brother, me too.

 

[bigredd]

The day Stihl and Husky starts moving manufacturing to China is when the death spiral to junk products will occur. Same goes with power tool makers. Not many industries left that have avoided the lure of higher profits importing from China.

 

[belgian]

The day Stihl and Husky starts moving manufacturing to China is when the death spiral to junk products will occur. Same goes with power tool makers. Not many industries left that have avoided the lure of higher profits importing from China.

Both are already manufactering in China as far as I know. It has nothing to do with making more profits, it's just a matter of cutting costs in an ever competitive consumer market where money gets tight. Pro markets going down, consumer markets still growing. You want to survive in the consumer market, where price is the main deciding factor, you have to move to cheap labor countries.

I work for a big german cy that is producing world class equipment for the ferrous and non ferrous industry, and guess what, we outsource more and more components to be made in China. Not because we want to make more profit, but just because we need to stay competitive. Our customers, mostly big stock quoted multinationals, are cutting budgets and no longer wish to invest in quality equipment that lasts for 20 years. They just have to make sure the next quarter results look good, so a cheaper product will do. Short term strategies, just like the majority of consumers.

Not a good trend, but consumer budgets are getting tighter all over the globe. It's a tough time for manufacterers of quality equipment.

 

[MacLaren]

Both are already manufactering in China as far as I know. It has nothing to do with making more profits, it's just a matter of cutting costs in an ever competitive consumer market where money gets tight. Pro markets going down, consumer markets still growing. You want to survive in the consumer market, where price is the main deciding factor, you have to move to cheap labor countries.

I work for a big german cy that is producing world class equipment for the ferrous and non ferrous industry, and guess what, we outsource more and more components to be made in China. Not because we want to make more profit, but just because we need to stay competitive. Our customers, mostly big stock quoted multinationals, are cutting budgets and no longer wish to invest in quality equipment that lasts for 20 years. They just have to make sure the next quarter results look good, so a cheaper product will do. Short term strategies, just like the majority of consumers.

Not a good trend, but consumer budgets are getting tighter all over the globe. It's a tough time for manufacterers of quality equipment.

I think you really hit the nail on the head. Quarterly profits. Its sad really. I love the idea of buying equipment that would last for 20 years. Seems its all about a quick buck nowadays......Just my opinion

 

[BloodOnTheIce]

Both are already manufactering in China as far as I know. It has nothing to do with making more profits, it's just a matter of cutting costs in an ever competitive consumer market where money gets tight. Pro markets going down, consumer markets still growing. You want to survive in the consumer market, where price is the main deciding factor, you have to move to cheap labor countries.

I work for a big german cy that is producing world class equipment for the ferrous and non ferrous industry, and guess what, we outsource more and more components to be made in China. Not because we want to make more profit, but just because we need to stay competitive. Our customers, mostly big stock quoted multinationals, are cutting budgets and no longer wish to invest in quality equipment that lasts for 20 years. They just have to make sure the next quarter results look good, so a cheaper product will do. Short term strategies, just like the majority of consumers.

Not a good trend, but consumer budgets are getting tighter all over the globe. It's a tough time for manufacterers of quality equipment.

Not only this is true, but China, Russia, and India are the biggest untapped markets for all equipment everything from construction, agricultural, and forestry products. So it makes sense from a manufacturing standpoint to produce the items where they'll be sold. But the one saving grace for Chinese production of Stihl, is that the entire operation is run by Stihl Germany people. So it's being run to the same standards as the rest of the production plants, not saying this is good but it's better than what alot of companies are doing in China.

 

[indiansprings]

They are not mfg a lot their product's in China for export to the US, but are there for the biggest emerging market the world will ever see, the vast population of China is what they are there for. The masses are now able to trade in the axes for chainsaw and hand trimmers for string trimmers. Anyone that don't think the Chinese can mfg just as good as quality as anyone else in the world has their head up their azz. We ignored what they can do and look where it's got us.lol I have been to factories in China that have the best German and Japanese CNC equipment, they are managed by German and Belgian's and can hold tolerances as well as anyone. Most of the products they will mfg in China will stay in the pacific rim. Sure they may bring in a price point saw like the 170, but Stihl is way to sharp to put North American market share at risk.

Stihl has quietly going vertical, (definition: doing all the work they can in house) why? To control cost, gain even more margin, plus they can control quality, plus they can sell excess mfg capacity to others.
Buying the carb mfg in China is a good example, bringing casting in house, mfg'ing there own bars and chain. It put's them way ahead of Husky from a business stand point. It's two totally different philosophies, Husky mfg's less and less of their own components, becoming more of an assembler of parts made to their spec. While Stihl mfg's more of their own parts and assembles them. Husky has to pay each one of those mfgs a good margin, Stihl on the other hand does not incur that cost, they don't have mfg plant issues, relying on others to provide sub parts on time. Many examples of companies out there running the same way and being successful, just takes good supply chain mngt. It's hard to change on a dime though if trends change, hence Husky being the follower instead of the leader on strato saws. Stihl had the engineering in house, and the ability to react much quicker, they didn't have to bring all the outside vendors up to speed, wait on these mfgs to implement all the tooling and changes.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Seems Overpriced

I hear ya on the 066. But if you do find a good one, ....I'll put it this way, the last new 066 I saw on e-bay went for $1,525.00
Ain't that something?!

That's incredible. Why on earth would anyone pay over $1500 for a used Stihl 066 when you can but a new MS 650 today for under $1000 and a new MS 660 for $1350?

Am I missing something? :msp_rolleyes:

 

[MacLaren]

That's incredible. Why on earth would anyone pay over $1500 for a used Stihl 066 when you can but a new MS 650 today for under $1000 and a new MS 660 for $1350?

Am I missing something? :msp_rolleyes:

yes, that was a brand new old stock 066

 

[Wood Doctor]

yes, that was a brand new old stock 066

Hmmm... OK.

Just fixed a 4-yr old 084 today... Tuned it up and it runs like a songbird. New carb kit, filters, plug, etc. Excellent condition with 0.404 bar and chain. Fabulous compression. Wonder what this beast would pull on E-bay? Any ideas? :msp_rolleyes:

 

[HemiMoparGuy]

Lots of good replies guys, everything I thought of has already been stated, so I'll leave well enough alone on that...but,

All the Cheap companies are buying the good stuff and they fall to the cheap way also. Black and Decker Bought Dewalt and now all Dewalt stuff is crap!

However, you need to get your facts straight. B&D bought DeWalt YEARS ago, back when DeWalt only made Radial Arm Saws. So how can you say NOW, Dewalt stuff is crap. The problem is, is there was a press release or something that made everyone aware that B&D owns DeWalt...most people just assumed it was a new deal that had just happened and it wasn't the case. They just have different lines and call them different labels...DeWalt is pro grade, Porter-Cable is mid range, Delta is industrial, B&D FireStorm is premium homeowner and B&D is economy line. Just because a known cheap brand owns a pro brand doesn't mean it is junk...It's the same thing saying a Cadillac is a cheap POS because it is manufactured by GM whom also manufactured GEO...Secondly, while I know they exsist, I haven't owned a single bad product from DeWalt...but this is all I will say on this topic as this is a chainsaw forum and a Survival of Stihl/Huskey thread...just wanted the throw it out there.

 

[weedeaterman]

Dewalt

Lots of good replies guys, everything I thought of has already been stated, so I'll leave well enough alone on that...but,



However, you need to get your facts straight. B&D bought DeWalt YEARS ago, back when DeWalt only made Radial Arm Saws. So how can you say NOW, Dewalt stuff is crap. The problem is, is there was a press release or something that made everyone aware that B&D owns DeWalt...most people just assumed it was a new deal that had just happened and it wasn't the case. They just have different lines and call them different labels...DeWalt is pro grade, Porter-Cable is mid range, Delta is industrial, B&D FireStorm is premium homeowner and B&D is economy line. Just because a known cheap brand owns a pro brand doesn't mean it is junk...It's the same thing saying a Cadillac is a cheap POS because it is manufactured by GM whom also manufactured GEO...Secondly, while I know they exsist, I haven't owned a single bad product from DeWalt...but this is all I will say on this topic as this is a chainsaw forum and a Survival of Stihl/Huskey thread...just wanted the throw it out there.

Nice input.

No for more important business, I have 2 Stihl 066's and they need Piston and cylinders, I have done smaller models, but nothing this large and older. I think they are still worth saving, Lower ends are fine. So any recommendations on either and of course more expensive Stihl replacements and or Bailey's and or another Idea!

Any advice be great! Thanks!

Henry

 

[HemiMoparGuy]

Nice input.

No for more important business, I have 2 Stihl 066's and they need Piston and cylinders, I have done smaller models, but nothing this large and older. I think they are still worth saving, Lower ends are fine. So any recommendations on either and of course more expensive Stihl replacements and or Bailey's and or another Idea!

Any advice be great! Thanks!

Henry

Nope, they're junk, sell them to me for $100 a piece...LOL, I would think 066 being older and bigger than you are used to would be easier than what you've gone through, older is usually simpler, and bigger means more room to work. I don't know for sure, I'm just sayin'...But if I can rebuild an 029 Super as my first saw rebuild, you shouldn't have a problem with an 066...something that is designed to be worked on