Chain question for the brain trust.

[MCW]

I'm not pulling anything. Yes the cutters are smaller than .325. . I'm not sure why, but I can sharpen it easier than .325. Not sure why it stays sharp either. Just reporting my findings.

Your mileage may vary.

How did the olympics go? Any medals on the piss revving front?

Are you comparing semi chisel LP to full chisel .325"? I'm thinking you may be
In clean wood everything stays sharp - Oh what I'd give for clean wood

 

[SawTroll]

Give the Stihl PS the non bumper link a go. I find it a better bet than VXL, not as "grabby"& stays sharp longer ( but maybe thats just me) I find the last bought roll of VXL to be poorer quality than the previous ones.

There are lots of complaints about the VXL on a British chainsaw forum I post on, mainly because of the long cutters creating excessive vibrations, specially when bore-cutting with the small bar tips that many of the lo-pro bars have. It actually is logic.
In addition I don't believe it has low-vibe cutters, likely because the cutters are a Carlton design? People are really missig the regular VX there, as it seems to be NLA on that market.

 

[SawTroll]

I'd have to have loops made because Stihl doesn't make PS/PS3 in 56dl and dealers here don't even have loops of it let alone spin one.

No surprice there, just the way it is - unless your dealer is one of the very few that stock loops that doesn't fit any Stihl bars.

 

[KenJax Tree]

They sell the premade Stihl chain loops with Husky drivelink counts because they sell both Stihl and Husky but they said Stihl only makes the PS/PS3 in Stihl drive link counts.

 

[Little Al]

They sell the premade Stihl chain loops with Husky drivelink counts because they sell both Stihl and Husky but they said Stihl only makes the PS/PS3 in Stihl drive link counts.

Not sure, but I think I saw somewhere that the guy on Evil bay that does the long bared Lo Pro chain shod "race saws" make up loops of PS starts with a" P" IIRC

 

[Little Al]

We can still buy loops of VPX or maybe it"s VP here in France but I"ve never tried it, & now I can get Stihl PS, & was having "chatter" problems with VXL, i"ve stuck with the PS although I have a VXL that the cutter teeth are almost down to zero, & it"s one of the smoothest, fastest, cutting chains I"ve used. I"m a bit lary of having to file away almost all the useful life of the chain, just to get it to cut to what I consider is a good standard, seems a bit of a waste of cash.

 

[Chris-PA]

There are lots of complaints about the VXL on a British chainsaw forum I post on, mainly because of the long cutters creating excessive vibrations, specially when bore-cutting with the small bar tips that many of the lo-pro bars have. It actually is logic.
In addition I don't believe it has low-vibe cutters, likely because the cutters are a Carlton design? People are really missig the regular VX there, as it seems to be NLA on that market.

PX is identical to VX except for the ramped drive links, which are unobtrusive and I cannot tell the difference. I don't bother with VXL, since Carlton is cheaper - neither are chamfer chisel like VX/PX which I find to be faster. Some of the recent loops of chamfer chisel I've gotten have rather poorly formed cutters where the chamfer corners are not well defined, so it ends up more of a radius and I think loses any advantage.

I really like lo pro, as it is also narrow kerf. It greatly reduces the load on the saw and allows you to run much smaller saws while still pulling 16" or 18" bars fast.

The whole purpose of the narrow bar tips is to reduce kickback, and so obviously it doesn't cut well on that tip either.

 

[SawTroll]

We can still buy loops of VPX or maybe it"s VP here in France but I"ve never tried it, & now I can get Stihl PS, & was having "chatter" problems with VXL, i"ve stuck with the PS although I have a VXL that the cutter teeth are almost down to zero, & it"s one of the smoothest, fastest, cutting chains I"ve used. I"m a bit lary of having to file away almost all the useful life of the chain, just to get it to cut to what I consider is a good standard, seems a bit of a waste of cash.

VP/VPX is the .325 narrow kerf. and that one isn't discontionued anywhere (that I know).

VX is the "X" version of the earlier VS, and "yellow" 3/8" lo-pro - and what they now are missing in the UK.

 

[frogdaddy]

Lo Pro is easier to sharpen and stays sharp longer than .325. I just started using it last year and I'm a believer now.

I agree that it is easier to sharpen but it is also real easy to make the chain a little to aggressive. Buddy of mine dropped one off for me to sharpen and ended up doing a muffler mod on his Craftsman just to pull the chain.

 

[Philbert]

I have no idea what brand it is and by super safety chain, I mean it has large twin bumpers that ride ahead of the rakers...... this set up was the smoothest I had ever run in this dry, hard, small wood.

Sabre made a chain with paired/dual depth gauges. Oregon PowerSharp also has this to keep the cutters aligned when sharpening. It makes sense that low kickback chain would be smoother on smaller wood, because the bumpers fill in some of the spaces between cutters.

I really like lo pro, as it is also narrow kerf. It greatly reduces the load on the saw and allows you to run much smaller saws while still pulling 16" or 18" bars fast.

Oregon type 91 (3/8 low profile, .050 gauge), STIHL PICCO, and others, may take a narrower kerf than standard .325 chain. Oregon type 90 chain (3/8 low profile, .043 gauge) and Carlton N4C are actually the 'narrow kerf' versions of this chain.

Philbert

 

[Chris-PA]

Oregon type 91 (3/8 low profile, .050 gauge), STIHL PICCO, and others, may take a narrower kerf than standard .325 chain. Oregon type 90 chain (3/8 low profile, .043 gauge) and Carlton N4C are actually the 'narrow kerf' versions of this chain.

Philbert

That's essentially correct - the "low profile" is also narrower kerf in spite of the name, and the 90 (0.043", which was called Microlite too for a while, but now I think they only use that on 0.325"?) are even narrower yet.

However, the 0.043" Calton chain is kinda bogus, as it uses the same cutters as the 0.050" chain so it is only 0.007" narrower cut due to the drivers. Oregon 90 and 91 use different cutters so there is a greater difference.

 

[ColdStihl]

I agree that it is easier to sharpen but it is also real easy to make the chain a little to aggressive. Buddy of mine dropped one off for me to sharpen and ended up doing a muffler mod on his Craftsman just to pull the chain.

Wouldn't sharpening the chain make it less aggressive since the cutter height is closing the distance with the raker?

 

[Philbert]

Wouldn't sharpening the chain make it less aggressive since the cutter height is closing the distance with the raker?

'Aggressive' usually has to do with the angles and profile chosen for filing or grinding the cutter, and the depth gauge ('raker') height. Depth gauge offset, relative to the cutter, can/should be adjusted with a file.

Used chains will have a larger gullet, allowing them to carry more chips in some situations (not a practical difference in others). Guys who make race chains often try to remove as much metal from the chain as possible, to reduce weight, so a used chain may be preferable, and more aggressive in that situation.

Philbert

 

[frogdaddy]

'Aggressive' usually has to do with the angles and profile chosen for filing or grinding the cutter, and the depth gauge ('raker') height. Depth gauge offset, relative to the cutter, can/should be adjusted with a file.

Used chains will have a larger gullet, allowing them to carry more chips in some situations (not a practical difference in others). Guys who make race chains often try to remove as much metal from the chain as possible, to reduce weight, so a used chain may be preferable, and more aggressive in that situation.

Philbert

Thanks Philbert. There is such little material on a lo-pro chain it is easy to get carried away with a file and dremel.

 

[ColdStihl]

'Aggressive' usually has to do with the angles and profile chosen for filing or grinding the cutter, and the depth gauge ('raker') height. Depth gauge offset, relative to the cutter, can/should be adjusted with a file.

Used chains will have a larger gullet, allowing them to carry more chips in some situations (not a practical difference in others). Guys who make race chains often try to remove as much metal from the chain as possible, to reduce weight, so a used chain may be preferable, and more aggressive in that situation.

Philbert

I'm with ya, but if you sharpen the chain to the point where the rakers are essentially flush with the top plate, the chain won't cut right? So, in effect, the MM was done because the rakers were taken down too much? That's what I was getting at.

 

[Philbert]

I'm with ya, but if you sharpen the chain to the point where the rakers are essentially flush with the top plate, the chain won't cut right? So, in effect, the MM was done because the rakers were taken down too much?

I don't see any (practical) connection. Doing a muffler mod, or getting a bigger saw to pull a chain that is not sharpened right, is like getting a bigger truck, rather than fixing the flat tire(s) on your trailer.

The depth gauges control how big a chip you can make (which is why I avoid calling them 'rakers'). But if the cutters are dull, or the depth gauges are shallow, a more powerful saw head might only make dust faster, or overheat the bar faster. It won't let you take bigger chips

Philbert

 

[ColdStihl]

I appreciate your comments and I'm sorry we are not tracking 100%, Philbert. I think I phrased my original question inappropriately. I run 3/8 LP on my 32cc saw (with MM) and I don't always reduce the depth gauges. So after I sharpen the cutters I find that the saw cuts easier and slightly less aggressive (relative to chip thickness) than the prior sharpening(s), hence my original question. I can only conclude that the depth gauges in this case were taken down too far which required a MM to run the extra grabby chain. Have I got it?

Bear with me, I'm always willing to be corrected in the interest of learning.

I don't see any (practical) connection. Doing a muffler mod, or getting a bigger saw to pull a chain that is not sharpened right, is like getting a bigger truck, rather than fixing the flat tire(s) on your trailer.

The depth gauges control how big a chip you can make (which is why I avoid calling them 'rakers'). But if the cutters are dull, or the depth gauges are shallow, a more powerful saw head might only make dust faster, or overheat the bar faster. It won't let you take bigger chips

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

So after I sharpen the cutters I find that the saw cuts easier and slightly less aggressive (relative to chip thickness) than the prior sharpening(s).

Right. Because the top plate of the cutter is angled, when you grind/file/wear it back, it is also lowered, and the offset between the cutting edge and the depth gauge is reduced slightly. That is why you should check this after sharpening. As a practical matter, the difference is often not noticeable after a light, touch-up sharpening, but gradually becomes significant.

So, if you reduce this offset from 0.025 inches (or whatever) to 0.020 inches (or whatever) you will be taking a thinner, less aggressive bite.

I like to think of it as adjusting the iron (blade) on a woodworking plane. If the depth setting is too high, the plane will glide right across the wood, without taking any bite. If the depth setting is too low, the blade will try to dig in, and you will get a jerky, rough cut at best. If the depth is adjusted just right for the wood you are planing, ***and the blade is sharp***, you will end up with big, pretty curls of wood, and a big, dumb grin on your face.

The difference with chain saw chain is that you can adjust the depth of a plane iron up and down; on saw chain, you can file away (remove) metal, but you really can't add it back. So it make sense to do this incrementally.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

This illustration (from Oregon) shows the offset better. Some guys make this gap larger or smaller depending upon the type of wood they are cutting, they way their saw handles, personal preference, etc. One of the advantages of sharpening your own chain is that you can experiment to see what works best for you, your saw(s), and the cutting that you do.

Philbert

 

[DSS]

Are you comparing semi chisel LP to full chisel .325"? I'm thinking you may be
In clean wood everything stays sharp - Oh what I'd give for clean wood

I wouldn't know what clean wood was either Matt. Mine is mostly yard trees, I use almost all semi.