starting a MS361

[SawTroll]

You mean you have a 6th sense? Musta be nice to have another hideous sense.

Tom...I am going to be at ur shop one day in the next 2 weeks. And I am going to bring my saw with me...gotta try to get in this situation I am always in when you are there and maybe you spank my saw bad boy! LOL... I really think its a matter of time by encountering different scenarios and know what to get out of them. Funny thing is when I flooded my saw last time. I tried starting at the run position and it did not work. Then one or two days later it will fire up on the run position...Maybe the spark plug dried off some while it was in da hole

I think you did a "lucky strike" on the dealer you chose - Tom will always be there to help you - he is a real stand-up guy, even though he thinks he is a combination of Elvis and Ali........ :jawdrop:



I don't want to think of how that could be.....:jawdrop:

 

[THALL10326]

I think you did a "lucky strike" on the dealer you chose - Tom will always be there to help you - he is a real stand-up guy, even though he thinks he is a combination of Elvis and Ali........ :jawdrop:



I don't want to think of how that could be.....:jawdrop:

Hey I think no such thing. Now I'm gonna have to whop ya and sing you aint nuttin but a hound dog,LOLOL

We'll get Jim fixed up, won't have it no other way,

 

[chiseltooth]

kinda related

this is kinda related being a starting issue on a stihl 036, but after it pops and i move the choke switch up a notch, it then fires up after a crank or two but wont shift up to idle when i blip the trigger. i have to do it with my thumb. now why is that.?

 

[THALL10326]

this is kinda related being a starting issue on a stihl 036, but after it pops and i move the choke switch up a notch, it then fires up after a crank or two but wont shift up to idle when i blip the trigger. i have to do it with my thumb. now why is that.?

Either your lever spring is weak, bent out of shape, or the lever itself is worn. A 2.00 spring and 6.00 lever will bring it back to like new. The 036 has some age on it, maybe time to put those two small items in....

 

[boltonranger]

An idea...

Jim can I suggest 2 things?...
1. If the saw should flood, remove the plug, dry it, but before you put back in the cylinder -pull the starter rope as though you were going to start it. Do this a few times. This will dry out the cylinder and crank of excess fuel better / quicker than if you don't do this. Then replace the plug, and try to start.
2. Start the saw between your legs with the chainbrake on. ie. Not on the ground; and not a drop start. You should feel the pop better having the saw clamped between your thighs.

IF the saw fires - it WILL pop the decomp valve up; if the saw is tuned properly the decomp valve will not make the saw more reluctant to start. Don't be afraid to use it; and it's fine to push it down after the pop, when you move the master control lever to fast idle; ie. up one click.
-br

 

[madhatte]

Try a 16" bar with 3/8"x8 on the 361, and you may forget that 260....

Ooh... gonna hafta try that.

Meanwhilst: tried an experiment today. Double-bagged my ears (that is, triple-flange fitted plugs + muffs) such that I couldn't hear much of anything at all. and started my 361. I never use the decomp except when it's REALLY cold out and I expect it to take a few pulls to start, so I tried it as normal (75F, 200' elevation) and have these observations to offer:

1) when it tries to turn over full-choked, there is a "duh-DUH" rhythm to the shake I feel in my left hand. This happens, on my saw, after 3-4 pulls.

2) when I switch it to half-choke/fast idle, it takes another two to three pulls, but as long as I get the "duh-DUH" before, it WILL start.

3) Once it's running, I blip the throttle to get it in "run", release the chainbrake, and run it full throttle for at least ten seconds.

4) Now it's ready to go.

Lesson learned: that "duh-DUH" when it turns over choked is key. Feel for it with the fingers of your left hand. After that, it's all gravy.

Best wishes.

 

[LHJim]

got it runnin'

I tried to start my 361 yesterday and I did not use the decomp. The funny thing is with the lever in the full choke position it took two pulls but on the second pull the saw seem to run for like 3 seconds or so. This was no ordinary blimp or pop or whatewver you want to call it. It seem like the saw actually was running...albeit for 3 seconds. Not sure if this is what you call a pop. But after two pulls I moved the lever up one notch and the saw started the second pull and I let it run and could feel the saw reving higher and pressed the throttle and it was at the run position. Obviously easier this time but I have never felt the saw get so far as running even for a couple seconds. Seem strange to me as I never felt this before when attempting to start the saw. I will try again this evening if its not lightening and see if this does it again. I am thinking maybe the decomp actually is helping me feel the saw fire up but this is way more than I felt when using the decomp.

One thing I wanted to mention a week or so ago. When the saw is running and I want to check if the bar/chain oil is working I put the saw against a stump and gave it full throttle and no oil squirted out. From the manual, this is how you check if the oiler is working. Should oil be spuirting out when you test it giving it full throttle?

 

[LHJim]

Jim can I suggest 2 things?...
1. If the saw should flood, remove the plug, dry it, but before you put back in the cylinder -pull the starter rope as though you were going to start it. Do this a few times. This will dry out the cylinder and crank of excess fuel better / quicker than if you don't do this. Then replace the plug, and try to start.
2. Start the saw between your legs with the chainbrake on. ie. Not on the ground; and not a drop start. You should feel the pop better having the saw clamped between your thighs.

IF the saw fires - it WILL pop the decomp valve up; if the saw is tuned properly the decomp valve will not make the saw more reluctant to start. Don't be afraid to use it; and it's fine to push it down after the pop, when you move the master control lever to fast idle; ie. up one click.
-br

Thanks for this idea. I never thought of that but it makes sense. This would be a good thing to know if I am miles away from home and did not want this flood th be a showstopper.

 

[boltonranger]

Thanks for this idea. I never thought of that but it makes sense. This would be a good thing to know if I am miles away from home and did not want this flood th be a showstopper.

Number 2 is a regular way to try to start your saw.
It may keep you from flooding it altogether provided you can feel the "pop"
-br

 

[CentaurG2]

Hard to believe you are stihl having trouble starting this saw. Bring that fat pig back to your dealer and have him give it the once over. I suspect somthings none too kosher with the carb. You can toggle a depressed decomp valve back out with just about any flat object but your fingernail. A scrench, quarter, screwdriver, Popsicle stick etc will work fine. It actually moves very easily but I don’t think the decomp valve is your problem.
You can start a flooded saw in the field but it is a little bit dangerous. You need to figure out a way to hold the throttle/trigger open while cranking the saw with the stihl smart switch in the run position. If you are spry, you can get a foot through the rear handle, a knee on the top cover or front handle, one hand on the trigger and the other hand on the starter rope. While holding the trigger wide open, crank the saw. It will eventually start and sputter and smoke like it is on fire, keep the trigger depressed until in clears out and runs normally.
Most modern stihl saws are very stingy with their oilers. Set your oiler to max, make sure you are running a stihl “oilomatic” chain and make sure that you keep both the bar groove and the bar oil holes clear of debris. Stihl saws don’t fling oil like other saws, they just kinda lube the lower drive links. No matter how much paint burns off the bar, as the bar is not glowing bright red, the oiler is working normally. Good Luck with your saw.

 

[blsnelling]

I would never recommend running a cold saw at WOT, especially for like 10 seconds. There is always the possibility of a cold seizure on a chainsaw in otherwise perfect condition. The piston heats up and expands quicker than the cylinder does and can get too tight for the bore.

 

[CentaurG2]

You gotta do what you gotta do. On a job, I have no time to wait for a flooded saw to off gas. I have cleared numerous flooded saws using that procedjure and will continue to do so. My saws make me money or they are removed from the fleet. I run them full fuel, no warm up and I have not lost one yet. I will warm up a diesel or gasser for about 1 min but then it needs to work. I have seen a diesel lock up during a cold start with ether but that is a totally different event. Cold seizure of a two stroke?? I have never heard or seen such a thing. Is this something that occurs frequently with modified saws??

 

[blsnelling]

It happens to stock saws. Obviously not common, but does happen. You may get away with it, but it's not a good practice and I wouldn't recommend it as a SOP. Clearing a flood saw is a different than using the procedure as a SOP for starting a cold saw.

 

[blsnelling]

Hard to believe you are stihl having trouble starting this saw.

Did you miss the post like I did that he can't hear?

 

[spiffy1]

Most modern stihl saws are very stingy with their oilers. Set your oiler to max, make sure you are running a stihl “oilomatic” chain and make sure that you keep both the bar groove and the bar oil holes clear of debris. Stihl saws don’t fling oil like other saws, they just kinda lube the lower drive links. No matter how much paint burns off the bar, as the bar is not glowing bright red, the oiler is working normally.

I presumed it was EPA or something, but they certainly are set stingy, even with the screw set to the highest you won't just see it flinging - maybe after a few seconds with the bar in a large cardboard box or something that would easily show oil specks. With that 20" bar, I'd leave it set high; I'd rather over-oil than under-oil, but that's just me.

 

[boltonranger]

Try this...

...You need to figure out a way to hold the throttle/trigger open while cranking the saw with the stihl smart switch in the run position...

There is a rather easy way.
You need a "small" bungie cord. The ones that are miniature size. About 6" long and 1/8" wide. fabric covered not the solid rubber ones.
You wrap it around the rear handle and hook the small hooks to each other.
You can slide it up over the throttle to hold the trigger down. When the saw starts; you quickly slide it down off (below) the trigger to allow the saw to return to idle. Comes in very handy.
Bungie can stay at the bottom of the handle until needed next time.

-br

 

[TreePointer]

Jim, I may have the 361 made right after yours on the assembly line.

It's usually easy to start cold, but starting it after being run for a while can be a problem. Sometimes it will still be hot or it could be cooler (say 15-20 minutes later) and it still won't start. What I observed was that the gas tank always made a great sucking sound when I opened when this happened. This was not an overpressure in the tank, but an underpressure. On a few occasions when I cut for a while, I'd open the fuel tank cap only to see fuel bubbling out of the tank (underpressure created lower boiling temperature for fuel). Dealer replaced breather valve for the tank, but I haven't used it as much as I've wanted to to test the new valve.

What works for me is that I crack open the fuel cap to relieve the underpressure when I take a break. What I also learned to do for starting it cold or warm is to use more sudden (not longer, but more rapid) pulls on the starter cord that what I've been accustomed to on other saws. For what it's worth, I use the between-the-legs starting method.

Also, while in the field, I've never cleared a flood on my 361 (or 290 for that matter) by removing the plug. Some pulls on the cord while in the run position (I) have done well to consume the flood (I don't need to touch the throttle either--why add more fuel to a flood?). Sometimes it will start from that position, but other times switching the saw to fast idle after about 4-6 pulls in the run position will get it started.

 

[blsnelling]

A new tank vent will not prevent pressure from building up in the tank. That's not it's function. It only prevents a vacuum. The needle in the carb stop the fuel from flooding in when it's under pressure. That is normal operation. If you have a vacuum, then the tank vent isn't working and it would be lean, not flooded.

 

[TreePointer]

A new tank vent will not prevent pressure from building up in the tank. That's not it's function. It only prevents a vacuum. The needle in the carb stop the fuel from flooding in when it's under pressure. That is normal operation. If you have a vacuum, then the tank vent isn't working and it would be lean, not flooded.

Underpressure condition = pressure in a closed system (any system: metal box, room in your house, gas tank) is less than outside that system. Think vapor lock.
Overpressure condition = pressure in a closed system is greater than outside that system.

If there is a underpressure (vacuum) in the tank, the fuel line wouldn't feed the carb enough fuel. All my symptoms seemed to have pointed to this. Cracking open the tank to relieve the underpressure before starting seems to have solved my problem.

I just threw in my method of clearing a flood for when a saw does indeed get flooded and I don't want to take it apart in the field.

 

[blsnelling]

I would think that if you had that much vacuum the saw would starve for fuel and run lean or not at all. If you're seeing bubbling fuel, that sounds like fuel under pressure to me, which the tank vent properly causes. I don't think you're ever going to boil the fuel in a 361 tank and get vapor lock. Old saws with a mag tank connected to the crankcase, yes.