Is the shop lying to me and next steps?

[Mauser]

No, it STARTED as an oil thread, with the dealer stating that Stihl saws were so poorly made and prone to failure that they could never be run on any oil except Stihl oil. He specifically blamed the oil for causing $750 in damage in 30 minutes to this fragile $900 used saw. Apparently he never bothered to explain to the OP why every other brand of saw on earth has run fine on other oils since the 2-stroke was invented. Instead, he lied and said that every brand of saw must only use oil sold by the same brand.

And the OP specifically asked us if this ridiculous oil claim was true.

 

[gary courtney]

I cant say what happen to your saw, but I have ran many a gallons of gas mixed with outboard oil and have never blown a saw up because of the oil. I have also used motor oil for mix in a pinch. Maybe you didnt get the mix right. I now run Husky saws and husky oil, but in the good old days, it was run what you brung and hope you brung enough

agree ! as a boy I ran gas already made up at 50:1 for our boatmotor through the xl12 for countless hours of run time. still own the saw 46 years later . and yes it still runs.

 

[HarleyT]

My old Homelite says to use 30W, so that is what I use!!!!!!

 

[muddstopper]

I filled my boat with mixed 40:1 gas and stabil before parking it for the winter. I have always considered it a emergency storage for saw gas if the need arises. I try to keep 2 gal of saw mix on hand at all times and that will pretty much do me for a year. If a big storm was to drop a lot of trees, I figure my boat gas will get me out of the drive way. I use the Mercury marine 2cycle oil in my boat and would probably put husky oil mix in it if I was out of mercury oil and wanted to go fishing

 

[Franny K]

No, it started out as a Dealer bashing thread!!
The saw has nothing to do with it!!

Post 1 states repair shop.

Do shops or dealerships do written estimates in your area?

 

[HarleyT]

Post 1 states repair shop.

Do shops or dealerships do written estimates in your area?

None that I know of.

 

[mh9162013]

In my experience with my local shop guys, they tend to lie a lot. I don't trust them at all.

That's not to say the OP's shop guy is lying about everything he's saying, but it wouldn't surprise me, that's all.

 

[HarleyT]

See!!


It IS a dealer bashing thread!!!

 

[Sam R]

In my experience with my local shop guys, they tend to lie a lot. I don't trust them at all.

That's not to say the OP's shop guy is lying about everything he's saying, but it wouldn't surprise me, that's all.

If he's not lying he's a damn idiot. That being said - I work in a dealership shop and I can tell you that I never ever lie to people about their O P E and I never gouge them on repairs. In fact I go out of my way to try and suss out a person's knowledge and ability so I can hopefully help inform them better. If they don't know and I can learn 'em, let me learn 'em by God.
This shop is the reason there's bad blood; can only run Stihl 2 stroke oil in a Stihl saw, $750 for a top end... To me I read that as, "Take your f***ing money and go somewhere else!"

 

[WoodLuvr]

Even though I was/am pretty darn upset about my saw I didn't intend to bash the dealer. I can't help it if they make it seem as if they are dishonest. Honestly, my nature is to be trusting and I'm always searching for what other possibilities may have come into play to cause the problem instead of being instantly negative. I am actually about to leave the house right now to stop by the shop to pick up the remains before I go into work. We will see what they say and how they act. I admit I am so tempted to go off on them and tell them everything I've learned that proves them wrong but I won't, I hope. I mean, some people have actually used regular 30W without blowing it up. Well, wish me luck.

 

[mh9162013]

Even though I was/am pretty darn upset about my saw I didn't intend to bash the dealer. I can't help it if they make it seem as if they are dishonest. Honestly, my nature is to be trusting and I'm always searching for what other possibilities may have come into play to cause the problem instead of being instantly negative. I am actually about to leave the house right now to stop by the shop to pick up the remains before I go into work. We will see what they say and how they act. I admit I am so tempted to go off on them and tell them everything I've learned that proves them wrong but I won't, I hope. I mean, some people have actually used regular 30W without blowing it up. Well, wish me luck.

Good luck and wait to go off on them (assuming you decide to) until you take some time to look over your saw carefully yourself and have concrete evidence of them lying.

 

[Marshy]

Even though I was/am pretty darn upset about my saw I didn't intend to bash the dealer. I can't help it if they make it seem as if they are dishonest. Honestly, my nature is to be trusting and I'm always searching for what other possibilities may have come into play to cause the problem instead of being instantly negative. I am actually about to leave the house right now to stop by the shop to pick up the remains before I go into work. We will see what they say and how they act. I admit I am so tempted to go off on them and tell them everything I've learned that proves them wrong but I won't, I hope. I mean, some people have actually used regular 30W without blowing it up. Well, wish me luck.

Yep, keep your calm. Do they know you are coming to pick it up? I personally wouldn't be happy to pick up my saw all torn apart and stuffed in a box but it seems warranted. Hopefully the parts arnt scattered and you get everything.

 

[Marshy]

Take a quick look at the pictures in this thread. This is the type of picture we would need to assess the damage. If you see anything like this in your cylinder or on your piston then it will need a new top end.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/how-much-is-scoring.262150/

 

[Busmech]

Hi everyone.

I bought a used Stihl MS660 about a year ago from a local repair shop that seemed to have a good reputation. I have only used it about four times overall and was always running it on Stihl brand premix until this last time when I decided to mix my own because every store was out of everything on the shelves because of hurricane Michael and I needed to cut a tree off my house. I had some Mercury outboard 2 cycle oil laying around that I used in the appropriate ratio. I figured 2 stroke is 2 stroke and it wouldn't be a problem. Now this saw was always hard for me to start already but after I mixed the fuel this time I quickly found that the only way I could get it started was with my finger on the throttle and then after it started it wouldn't stay running. I took it in and they are now telling me that it "blew up". They said it needs a new piston and head and that the damage was caused by the oil I used. Said Stihl saws only like Stihl brand oil and I just shoulda known and that different brands of oil are specifically formulated for only that brand of motor. Now this really doesn't make sense to me because they also sell and recommend using "TruFuel" premix as a cheaper alternative to Stihl and I'm pretty sure that it's not made specifically for Stihl chainsaws and will work in pretty much any 2 stroke just fine. They said the cost to repair the saw will be around 750 bucks. I paid $900 for it. Are they deceiving me?

I think it's possible the saw was already on it's last leg and another thing that makes me suspicious is that a couple years prior to this I brought in a vintage all metal Homelite Blue saw to them that I couldn't get to stay running and they told me it needed rebuilt and said parts are near impossible to source so they offered a trade in credit on a new saw. I purchased an MS250 from them at that time. I later bought the used 660 from them after quickly realizing I needed something bigger.

So I need a second opinion. What is the truth? Also, I have decided I am going to make the repairs myself. What do I need to know in order to get this fixed? Where is the cheapest source of OE Stihl parts and how do I get the service manual?

Thank You All!

The one thing you didn't mention was the gas, did you use fresh gas or old lawnmower gas that's been sitting in your garage for months. Bad ethanol gas would kill a saw a lot quicker than outboard oil.

 

[WoodLuvr]

Okay, I just got home. Whew! There's a lot to say here. Firstly, to the person who asked, Yes, I did use fresh non-ethanol gas. Okay, I showed up late with not much time to hash things out because I had to be to work. I got a late start out of the driveway. When I got there I saw the saw and could tell immediately that it does need a new top end. The piston was scored badly and shavings of it had adhered themselves to the inside of the cylinder. Looks just like the pictures Marshy linked to that I didn't see until I got back home just now. The owner still adamantly stressed that it was the oil I used and still holds that you should only run Stihl brand oil. He asked me what temperature it was outside when I started the saw after I added the new mix and I told him it was warm. He was like well there you go. The wrong oil on a hot day will always do that. I told him I just wanted to pick up everything and fix it myself and he got sorely offended and said he would work a deal with me for just shy of $500 to rebuild it as a Christmas gift. I reluctantly told him okay, go ahead. Wait, keep reading. I regret saying that. I believe in either paying the shop out of convenience or paying for the education by doing things myself. I hate paying someone else for something I know I can do myself. You've all been there. Just the other day I had to pay a shop to put a new master cylinder in my wife's van. I don't have the time. I hate that. So, because I don't have a ton of free time and $500, I thought, is much more realistic and I needed the saw asap I said go ahead. Then, I found out what they did with my MS250 I left for them to put a new chain sprocket on. They told me $150 for that. And I'm like, why? I just wanted a sprocket and a once over and they said they rebuilt the carb, replaced the plug, filters and all. Okay that's it. The 250 was running like a top already. If the carb needed rebuilt why didn't you ask me first. By that time I realized how late it had gotten so I had to leave in a hurry to be to work on time. So, I haven't picked up anything yet or paid them any money. Hopefully they haven't started work on the 660 yet because I changed my mind. I've decided I'm going back tomorrow morning to pay them for the 250 and pick up my 660 in pieces and pay them whatever they're charging for the diagnosis and do it all myself when I get time. The owner really ticked me off me too when he told me I would mess it up by doing it myself.

 

[huskihl]

There's a good chance that $50 and a couple hours of your time would fix this saw

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Okay, I just got home. Whew! There's a lot to say here. Firstly, to the person who asked, Yes, I did use fresh non-ethanol gas. Okay, I showed up late with not much time to hash things out because I had to be to work. I got a late start out of the driveway. When I got there I saw the saw and could tell immediately that it does need a new top end. The piston was scored badly and shavings of it had adhered themselves to the inside of the cylinder. Looks just like the pictures Marshy linked to that I didn't see until I got back home just now. The owner still adamantly stressed that it was the oil I used and still holds that you should only run Stihl brand oil. He asked me what temperature it was outside when I started the saw after I added the new mix and I told him it was warm. He was like well there you go. The wrong oil on a hot day will always do that. I told him I just wanted to pick up everything and fix it myself and he got sorely offended and said he would work a deal with me for just shy of $500 to rebuild it as a Christmas gift. I reluctantly told him okay, go ahead. Wait, keep reading. I regret saying that. I believe in either paying the shop out of convenience or paying for the education by doing things myself. I hate paying someone else for something I know I can do myself. You've all been there. Just the other day I had to pay a shop to put a new master cylinder in my wife's van. I don't have the time. I hate that. So, because I don't have a ton of free time and $500, I thought, is much more realistic and I needed the saw asap I said go ahead. Then, I found out what they did with my MS250 I left for them to put a new chain sprocket on. They told me $150 for that. And I'm like, why? I just wanted a sprocket and a once over and they said they rebuilt the carb, replaced the plug, filters and all. Okay that's it. The 250 was running like a top already. If the carb needed rebuilt why didn't you ask me first. By that time I realized how late it had gotten so I had to leave in a hurry to be to work on time. So, I haven't picked up anything yet or paid them any money. Hopefully they haven't started work on the 660 yet because I changed my mind. I've decided I'm going back tomorrow morning to pay them for the 250 and pick up my 660 in pieces and pay them whatever they're charging for the diagnosis and do it all myself when I get time. The owner really ticked me off me too when he told me I would mess it up by doing it myself.

More often than not I save tons of time by not going back and forth to accomplish the job once. I clear off my bench and aim for a half hour every day if that is all I have then it gets done. Thanks

 

[mh9162013]

... So, because I don't have a ton of free time and $500, I thought, is much more realistic and I needed the saw asap I said go ahead. Then, I found out what they did with my MS250 I left for them to put a new chain sprocket on. They told me $150 for that. And I'm like, why? I just wanted a sprocket and a once over and they said they rebuilt the carb, replaced the plug, filters and all...

That's completely unacceptable. There's no way they should be able to do work you didn't ask for, then charge you for it. The only thing I can think of to give them the benefit of the doubt is when you said to put on a new sprocket and "a once over," that "once over" could have been interpreted to include maintenance work such as what they did for you. I still think what they did with your MS 250 was wrong, but maybe it can be explained with a misunderstanding rather than unethical conduct.

 

[WoodLuvr]

That's completely unacceptable. There's no way they should be able to do work you didn't ask for, then charge you for it. The only thing I can think of to give them the benefit of the doubt is when you said to put on a new sprocket and "a once over," that "once over" could have been interpreted to include maintenance work such as what they did for you. I still think what they did with your MS 250 was wrong, but maybe it can be explained with a misunderstanding rather than unethical conduct.

Oh, I know. I assumed they would call me if they found any other problems. I didn't actually use the term "once over". I act told them to look over it and make sure everything was sound. I don't know my exact words.

 

[WoodLuvr]

More often than not I save tons of time by not going back and forth to accomplish the job once. I clear off my bench and aim for a half hour every day if that is all I have then it gets done. Thanks

Yeah, at any moment I'm working on at least three project little by little simultaneously. At present the biggest projects I have going are building a set of bunk beds and a greenhouse.