when is a BIG saw (100cc) worthwile

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i learned a long time ago from my grandpa why i barber chairs happen and how to prevent them. i stuck true to this and have never had it happen to me. i have seen it happen to other guys though. i learned it's all about the depth of you undercut and the height of your back cut. 1/3 of the tree's diameter max for the undercut and an inch or 2 above the undercut joint for the back cut. i have never had a problem doing it this way regardless of whether i'm doing cuts from both sides or not. i was out in the woods one day and there was a guy wanting to take down a tree. he had the roads blocked which was good but i could see what he was doing. he went pretty much half way through the tree for his undercut. i didn't expect anything bad to happen because i never saw it before. all i knew was that his undercut was a little crazy. he started his back cut and that thing split so fast he must have sh@#. 2 uncontrolled tree halfs falling at once would be scary. hahahahahah anyways he lived. no harm done to him luckily because he could have died. has anybody ever heard of the dutchman cut? somebody must have. i learned that years ago from my grandpa and haven't masteres it yet but getting there.
 
Gotta elaborate a bit; if you're bumping knots on a bushy spruce or something, you want a 16" bar or less, and a sharp chain. Faster the saw spools up, the faster you can move on to a job that doesn't suck ass.

I agree Nate. Those scratchy, dirty, suck-ass jobs sometimes call for a little saw with a 16" bar...

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We only cut small logs so 25 max bar but we use big cc saw's well as far as saw's go that is and .404 nothing under 660 and set up very aggressive for hard wood...time is money this set up works fine for us....our hard wood is hard one can not push hard with dogs in on a 660 running a 20in bar with .404 RS it will bog very easy and no im not talking gum that stuff is like butter to cut.....Seems to me the wood overseas is very soft and all that matters are the revs a saw will pull so any saw that out rev's a saw will out cut it, I think thats why the 880 and bigger seem slow but here they are far from it......a stock 460 out cutting a stock 660 in Aussie hard wood now that is funny no matter the cut size....

Yep, short bars on big saws seems to be an Aussie thing.

I run Dolmar 9010's with 20" bars, my mate runs 880's with the same, but his 660 carries a 24" bar. I have longer bars, but they might get put on the saw once in 12 months if that. Most of the work our saws do is ripping though, chains filed at 10 degrees and 10' cuts is hard work on saws.
 
Barberchairs are usually a result from a too shallow of a face cut and can be made worse by having the backcut higher than the gunning cut. A third should be considered the minimum.
 
I have been welding since I was 8 years old, and I have never had a spark on the arm hurt enough to bother me. Now if it was a big ball of slag landing in your lap, and burning its way through your boxers, or if one landed in your ear, thats different. Anyone who complains about a spark burning their arm has no business calling them self a welder.




We did a pasteurizer repair for G Heileman in LaCrosse, laying on your side on wet concrete, running 6011 on rusty steel. Thank God for earplugs. Yes you can hear the sizzle in your ears and no we didn't wear leathers. All you would hear is an occasional wimper. Sometimes you would see someone do an "electric snake" response but it was all in a days work.
 
I have a 100cc Echo and most of the time its too big. But when the tree is down and topped like i have 100's of then it makes good sense because i can cut it into firewood lenghts in a few minutes. Esp on the bigger logs it just hogs the wood...Bob
 
Barberchairs are usually a result from a too shallow of a face cut and can be made worse by having the backcut higher than the gunning cut. A third should be considered the minimum.

people have different ways of doing it. thats cool. i was trained by by my grandpa and a little bit by marcel. the old school B.C logger way. i guess their theory is that when you go to far you open up the centre of the tree where it has most chances to split. i have never seen any of the guys out here go further then a third of the tree's diameter and most times even less unless you have a guy who just grabbed a saw and just went and tried.yer way could be right and so could mine. i don't even know for sure. all i know if it works for me and it has been tried and true by the guys out here. i don't mean to come off as a guy who thinks he knows everything. i'm just saying i was shown by guys who have been doing it since the 60's so that is the way i'm gonna continue doing it no matter what anybody says. cool :cheers:
 
Way I was taught.

thats cool man. i have no problem with guys having other ways of doing it. no arguements here. i was just statifng how i was taught. you guys can have problems with it. all good. my grandpa ran alot of the camps down here or up here and nobody ever lost there life. i was 15 when i was taught this way. i remember th higher back cut was so the butt of the tree didn't kick off the atump in the fallers direction. what do i know. i am not a pro falling tree's in the woods everyday i was only trained by what i consider a pro. sorry for getting you guys riled up. again just stating how i was taught. life is good :cheers:
 
Shane I have always used the 1/3, and minimum 2 inches stump shot myself. But have read before 1/3 to half. I have never had to go more than a 1/3. Maybe a big redwood not sure Randy have you had to go 1/2 on many Trees? Also do me a favor elaborate on the backcut above gunning cut. As I was always taught above minimum 2 inches. But recently Parmeter and I argued over a pull tree, he said to go below, as we were pulling the tree, and did not want it to shoot off the stump. I had never heard that before. Then I heard it again shortly after, and found it was right. Not that I did not believe him, as he and his dad taught me many things. Thought it was a case of his way my way. Here is my average cutting, face stumpshot etc... Not necessarily size wise for trees always, but this is what I practice regular for facing them. The one with me in the pic, is one reason I prefer 87cc-100 for falling saw it up fast, clear chips at will.
 
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looks good norm :msp_thumbsup: thats the exact same way i was taught. i was taught to not go quite as deep with the under cut but you are not far off 1/3 of of the tree's diameter so thats bullseye to me. i have never had a problem doing it that way. one funny thing i can tell you and i don't mean to stir the pot. hahahaha when i fell my first tree when i was 15 my grandpa just let me go at it to see what i knew to start. was a small tree. i did my face cut going up instead of down. my grandpa taught me right then and there don't do it that way unless you wanna look like a goof. hahahahah don't know why he would think it's a big deal but he said thats how they do it back east and your out west so do it like a westcoaster. i laughed anyways and from that day on i have always done it just the way you do there. right on man. keep it up. oh ya and i expect to see a vid of you and Aaron racing your 288's. i think Aarons will win just cause it's a B.C saw :D hahahahahah no jk ........:cheers:
 
Shane thanks my friend, been cutting since I was about 7 or 8. And always watch how other seasoned people to see there trick bag. Much of the same is standard, but some customize a little bit. When I first started getting into bigger trees, and falling. I was cocky and thought I knew it all at first. Then Parmeter's old man Will, kind of took me under his wing. I started listening to what he had to say, and a much older crowd around me. I know it is why I am still alive today, they taught me proper technique, skills and safety, which is one in the same. They also taught me to practice all of this everytime, and it becomes second nature, no short cuts! Short cuts get you killed. I am no logger or everyday faller, but a general tree worker of some years. I have been in so many dicey situations, and seen many close calls. I explained to my boss the other day, it is a field that is never 100 percent safe, because it is always dangerous, even routine stuff. Best you can do is learn all you can, practice the best techniques every time, and minimize the danger.
 
The few OG redwood fallers I knew were pretty well broken down. There hands looked like claws and they couldn't hear very well. But even in old age they were tough.

You forgot to mention that a lot of them limp a little. :)

And tough? Maybe. Or maybe they were just used to the way things really work...and didn't see any point in complaining about it.
 
You forgot to mention that a lot of them limp a little. :)

And tough? Maybe. Or maybe they were just used to the way things really work...and didn't see any point in complaining about it.

Tough? A bunch of west coast culls. :msp_tongue:
 
I like the balance of a 153 when limbing, even though it has an inboard clutch.
 
OK, ok,

Trollies right, the 2100 does limb better.

I like something light and high revving with about a 20 inch bar. Done a lot of limbing with my father's 039, and I can't wait to try my 034 at it. If I did much more limbing, I would try a dolmar 5100. I think the extra 1000 rpm would make all the difference for limbing.
 

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