E10 Burns Dolmar 5100 Jug, Fact or Fiction?

[Rocosil]

My Dolmar 5100S (Bought March 2008, less than 10 cords cut, 50/1 mix E10 premium & synthetic oil.) wouldn't restart after running out of fuel the previous day. Spark and fuel delivery fine. Since it's still on warranty, I took it to the dealer who told me today that the cylinder was burned due to the use of E10, which now appears to be the only gas available here in Maine. He claimed that he is trying to get a new jug from Dolmar under the warranty, but that in previous cases of this nature Dolmar has balked, claiming that the damage is due to the fuel and, therefore, not covered under the warranty, which covers only for manufacturing defects. He also claims that Dolmar is now telling dealers to tune the saws they sell richer and tell their customers to use a 40/1 or even, to be an the safe side, 30/1 mix. Presumably, I wasn't told that because I bought the saw before they became aware of the problem.
He said that, if he can't get the new cylinder under warranty, he'll "work with me" in the sense that he won't charge me for the labor, but that the jug will cost $180.

In a way, I'm a bit dubious about the whole story, because I find it hard to believe that a manufacturer would introduce a saw prone to this problem when the effect of ethanol blends on small engines was already well-documented. Some of the threads about the effect of ethanol blends I've researched here go back as much as three years.

After this experience, I'm also concerned about my other saws ( Stihls 028 & 031 and an Echo 305), but I suppose the only thing I can do is go back to the old 40/1 mix, sneaking it maybe closer to 35/1.

Your thoughts, please.

 

[TRI955]

Run AV gas and don't worry about ethanol anymore....

 

[CentaurG2]

My Dolmar 5100 came through running so lean that it took almost a full turn out on the H needle to get it down to 14200. The needle limiters needed to be pulled to get the saw off the rev limiter. I have not noticed any difference in RPM or performance running 10% ethanol but I do look after my equipment and set it all up to run a pinch rich. I am currently running 50:1 with premium and stihl ultra. I hope your dealer takes care of you.

 

[Taxmantoo]

E10 isn't going to fry your engine unless it was already running lean on 100% petro.
Makes me wonder how/if the dealer adjusted the carb when he set the saw up originally.

 

[Javelin]

I have had a couple of 5100's with e10 problems. One the e10 was more like e90 no joke! The other was a combination of th fuel and a chain that you could have put on backwards and it would have cut better! Dolmar backed both of them even though they were not defects of Dolmar! Your dealer should have some pull on this situation! After all that is what a dealer is for is service after the sale! I will say this dolmar backed these two I had the first time and warned both guys the next time it was on them! They have been running fine ever since and sharp chains on them now!

 

[Javelin]

On a side note I doubt the cylinder is bad! These two that I had it was just the piston!

 

[BloodOnTheIce]

Both Kohler and Briggs sell kits to test your fuel alcohol content, they're simple to use and can help you find the station with the least amount of ethanol. 10% ethanol is the standard here in NY and we're not seeing abnormal fuel related seizing.
It is however causing a lot of issue with mowers, we're seeing 2-4 oz. of water in walk behind gas tanks and up to 8 oz. of water in riding mowers gas tanks due to the ethanol content.

 

[Lakeside53]

The problem is not the E10. It's Dolmar shipping the saw set on the edge of lean for EPA with non-alcohol gas, and the dealer not re-tuning it.

Get used to E10.. it's here to stay.


There is a long recent thread on this exact topic.

Changing the oil mix isn't the solution - re-tuning the saw slightly richer is. Dolmar might say "more oil", but that's only because they can't tune them richer and pass epa...

 

[Edge & Engine]

The problem is not the E10. It's Dolmar shipping the saw set on the edge of lean for EPA with non-alcohol gas, and the dealer not re-tuning it.

Get used to E10.. it's here to stay.


There is a long recent thread on this exact topic.

Chaning the oil mix isn't the solution - re-tuning the saw slightly richer is. Dolmar might say "more oil", but that's only becase they can't tune them richer and pass epa...

And then they say, "Removing the limiter caps and tampering with the needles is a violation of federal law and you may be fined up to $2,000 blah blah blah"

Gotta love the EPA.

Shindaiwa is saying no warranty if a saw is brought in with damaged or missing limiter caps.

EDIT: What's wierd is that I check all the saws we sell and all of them have been on the rich side. NO lean runners from the factory!

 

[Lakeside53]

LOLol Shindawa has it backwards... Do they think the limiter caps were removed to make the saw leaner


$2000 uh oh...:greenchainsaw:

 

[Edge & Engine]

LOLol Shindawa has it backwards... Do they think the limiter caps were removed to make the saw leaner


$2000 uh oh...:greenchainsaw:

Andy I don't know about where you live, but around here if people think the engine isn't running right, they don't care where they set the needles or which way they turn them. Most people, I should say.

 

[Edge & Engine]

Here I found the statement:

Tampering with or defeating an emission control devise is punishable
in the United States by the Environmental Protection Agency of up to $32,500 for dealers/retailers and up to $2,500 for individuals for each violation.

Supposedly, there is a clause somewhere that states that you cannot "adjust" carbs with limiter caps outside of the limited range, but you are allowed to get the engine running to optimum performance.

 

[Javelin]

The way that reads no one can do any muffler mods!

 

[THALL10326]

My Dolmar 5100S (Bought March 2008, less than 10 cords cut, 50/1 mix E10 premium & synthetic oil.) wouldn't restart after running out of fuel the previous day. Spark and fuel delivery fine. Since it's still on warranty, I took it to the dealer who told me today that the cylinder was burned due to the use of E10, which now appears to be the only gas available here in Maine. He claimed that he is trying to get a new jug from Dolmar under the warranty, but that in previous cases of this nature Dolmar has balked, claiming that the damage is due to the fuel and, therefore, not covered under the warranty, which covers only for manufacturing defects. He also claims that Dolmar is now telling dealers to tune the saws they sell richer and tell their customers to use a 40/1 or even, to be an the safe side, 30/1 mix. Presumably, I wasn't told that because I bought the saw before they became aware of the problem.
He said that, if he can't get the new cylinder under warranty, he'll "work with me" in the sense that he won't charge me for the labor, but that the jug will cost $180.

In a way, I'm a bit dubious about the whole story, because I find it hard to believe that a manufacturer would introduce a saw prone to this problem when the effect of ethanol blends on small engines was already well-documented. Some of the threads about the effect of ethanol blends I've researched here go back as much as three years.

After this experience, I'm also concerned about my other saws ( Stihls 028 & 031 and an Echo 305), but I suppose the only thing I can do is go back to the old 40/1 mix, sneaking it maybe closer to 35/1.

Your thoughts, please.

E10 is killing Dolmars, hmmmmmmm interesting and pure hogwash to boot. I guess in Virginia they are all going to fry because E10 is all there is to buy. Go back and tell that dealer that Stihl put 4 million powerheads through test cells last year at Va Beach and ran them all on guess what, E10. Adding more oil is only going to make it run hotter, not cooler. My 5100 and 7900 are both on E10 and running fine.

You need to stand firm and tell him its under warranty, the E10 excuse is BS so fix it.

 

[Javelin]

Well e10 does not care what saw it is in! I have seen them all brands that is scored from it!

 

[wood4heat]

E10 is killing Dolmars, hmmmmmmm interesting and pure hogwash to boot. I guess in Virginia they are all going to fry because E10 is all there is to buy. Go back and tell that dealer that Stihl put 4 million powerheads through test cells last year at Va Beach and ran them all on guess what, E10. Adding more oil is only going to make it run hotter, not cooler. My 5100 and 7900 are both on E10 and running fine.

You need to stand firm and tell him its under warranty, the E10 excuse is BS so fix it.

What is a test cell?

4 million powerheads, do they put every saw they manufacture through one?

 

[Rocosil]

And then they say, "Removing the limiter caps and tampering with the needles is a violation of federal law and you may be fined up to $2,000 blah blah blah"

Gotta love the EPA.

Shindaiwa is saying no warranty if a saw is brought in with damaged or missing limiter caps.

EDIT: What's wierd is that I check all the saws we sell and all of them have been on the rich side. NO lean runners from the factory!

OK, I think I'm getting the picture.

Test the gas. Find AvGas, if I can. Tune rich. Remove the limiter on H, even if it invalidates the warranty - pretty much a moot point anyhow.

I'll see what my dealer comes up with, but Dolmar appears to be off the hook because the owners' manual does say "Gasoline which contens (sic) alcohol should not be used in Dolmar products." Makes me wonder how they plan to sell their products in a world where ethanol blended fuel is the rule. I can see where a dealer, caught in this sort of Catch 22, wouldn't bother carrying chainsaws.

Somehow I doubt, though, that this saw was running lean. I pulled the plug a couple of times since I had it, and it always looked pretty dark brown, almost black, right down to the root of the electrode.

 

[Orange Hill]

Moving from 50:1 to 40:1 or lower only leans out the fuel mixture even more. There will be less fuel and more oil making it leaner. Also it will increase the viscosity of the fuel ever so slightly which makes it more resistant to flow again ever so very slightly minuscule making it leaner still. I used to ride with a guy who jetted his dirt bike by adding more oil when we rode at higher elevations and it seemed to work. Most people for some reason think that a ratio of 40:1 is richer then 50:1 and that is not the case. The purpose of the 2 stroke oil is only to lubricate not to add to the combustion.

 

[THALL10326]

The way that reads no one can do any muffler mods!

Starting 2010 the EPA will indeed be sending moles (undercover) to shops to get limiter caps removed and mufflers modded. If the dealer does it the fine will be so hefty the shop will probably have to close up.

Also come 2010 OSHA will be sending moles out to jobsites. If your the owner of a tree company and you have a man sawing without chaps doing a job for your company the fine to your company will be huge.

If you own a landscape business and one of your guys is trimming without eye protection and spotted by OSHA you the owner will be fined bigtime.


OSHA and EPA have won the war, simple as that, the sons of bit-ches..

 

[Butch(OH)]

The problem is not the E10. It's Dolmar shipping the saw set on the edge of lean for EPA with non-alcohol gas, and the dealer not re-tuning it.

Chaning the oil mix isn't the solution - re-tuning the saw slightly richer is. Dolmar might say "more oil", but that's only because they can't tune them richer and pass epa...

That has been my experience and my suspicion, thanks for the heads up.

I have purchased several saws, weed wacks and yard tools over the last 4 years of several makes and Echo has been by far the worst for lean. All of our new Echos were so lean they can barely be kept running on our 10% corn fuel, Dealer checked out?? Ill ask the blond at the check out next time I need some lumber or hardware, LOL. Our MS660 was borderline at the limiters and I removed them to get a cushion adjusted, the 260 Pro has not been touched and seems good. A couple FS 110s were right on but are 4 stroke, imagine that?? Our TS400 was decent too. Great dealer been using for 27 years. The SHindiawa saws have not had a screw touched and are spot on, dealer or factory set I cant say?