EXTREME precision falling

[murphy4trees]

to answer your question about the low back cut... I hit metal on the plunge cut, which I thought at that height could have been some old light fixture.. So I wanted to get as far below the notch as possible without effecting the fall... Its clear from the slow motion replay that the top cleared the front of the stump with only a light touch.. I have answered that question now well over 25 times as you might imagine. At the time I was familiar with the use of that cut from falling cuts, and had only used it in the tree a couple of times. It has its uses and comes in real handy in certain situations.. Did you call that "dumb"? Why just because you haven't seen it and don't understand it? IMO you're the dumb one.. my cut is way smarter than that!

 

[murphy4trees]

as far as clean up goes

Here's another vid that belongs in this thread..
treework big oak top threads needle.mov - YouTube
if you watch closely this 75-85' oak touches branch tips with adjacent trees on both sides as it fall, and just brushes the shrub across the street. Cut was made from about 10-12' with the bucket as the customer wanted to keep the bottom stick standing... That yard was step terraced down three levels below the street. That's where all the brush would have landed if it had been roped out.. It was amazing how little lawn damage that tree did too.. almost none, again you'd have to look closely on the video.. Most of the impact had to have gone into breaking up the top in the street... which worked out for clean up as nearly the entire mess landed in the street and was handled easily with the loader...

I rope stuff out all the time to preserve the grass, as I hate duvets.. depends somewhat on the customers relationship with their grass, the price and the agreement made.. what is sweetest is being able to preserve the lawn with padding logs and taking big trees in one cut.. If you think that's a hassle, you'd have a real eye opener to work with my crew for a week.. Treeslayer did!


also check this one out... flew this 35' oak top out 15' past a Jap maple and landed it perfectly on the padding logs with zero damage to lawn, curb, or street..

Big oak throw.mov - YouTube




Then there is the first cut in the latest falling vid.. big maple right into the unprotected street.. didn't even scratch it..

cuttin' Trees 4_.mov - YouTube




And here's what's left of a couple of big trees, getting dropped across a driveway onto an existing stump and some big logs (put there with the skid loader).. NO WAY could that have ever been faster to rig down..
Siberian Elm Removal Youtube.mov - YouTube

NEXT???

 

[murphy4trees]

I can fell trees just fine, to the extent that I'm not wasting my own or anyone else's time patting myself on the back with video's demonstrating novice "skill" like you are there in Philly. And if that's your way of proving knowledge and skill in arboriculture, the video's you've presented show you doing all kinds of collateral damage to neighboring ornamental trees and turf, etc.

Felling vs rigging = less risk in rigging it down, period, no matter how much knowledge and skill in felling you claim to have. Some risks are bigger than others depending on the tree, but I'd really like to hear how you are going to explain how felling most trees is safer than rigging them down. No matter how much skill and knowledge you claim to have, its still a risk, much more than rigging it down properly. Climbing is a risk. You can throw all the knowledge and skill at any tree that you want to, but it doesn't eliminate the inherent risk involved in felling the thing.

Felling is obviously the fastest way to get it on the ground, but once its there you have to deal with the limbs stabbed into the ground, cutting the tensioned wood as the weight of the rest of the tree is laying on it, fighting the brush out from under the log, and fixing the turf damage, especially if you are bringing your skidloader in.

Ask any ground guy out there if he would rather clean it up limb by limb or fight the mess of brush under the log of a felled tree. You're dreaming if you think its the latter.

In the past I've worked for guys that did commercial land clearing with tree shears, whole tree chippers, skidders, as well as residential removals; they put alot of emphasis on felling every tree that its remotely possible on -- because they can't climb. Even with all that equipment available on our residential work days, the bucket truck and hand fed chipper goes out for the removals instead because of all the time and expense it takes to load and haul all that big stuff around.

"My tree is on the ground faster" is not what I'm talking about -- start to finish, from the moment the trucks leave the shop till the check gets cashed. Your cleanup of a felled tree is going to take considerably longer than my cleanup of a tree thats been limbed out; you'll be wasting time fixing the turf you damaged, making pruning cuts to fix the limbs you damaged on the adjacent trees (or are you still leaving stubs?)

I can see it for what it is -- you're putting so much emphasis on felling because you lack the ability to climb efficiently, which REALLY precludes you from doing a lot of the trees that the climbers can do, because although we can take down every tree that you can with your felling, you can't fell every tree that we can with our climbing.

A good buddy of mine had been doing tree work for 35+ years on the east coast.. moved out to Iowa a few years ago and comes back saying how the tree guys in Iowa are the most unskilled and un-knowledgeable he's ever seen.. I guarantee the climbers I work with would smoke the best climber you've ever seen in your life! You think you know what you're talking about, but you're a big fish in a small pond.. you can't even imagine there's a better way of doing tree work... the videos just don't make the same impression as seeing it in person.. It would drop your jaw.. So here's an example of what I AM talking about.. How bout you keeping your big mouth shut until you post a video that even comes close to this..

part 1 Efficiency in Tree Removal pt.1 Daniel Murphy 3 Tulip Removals - YouTube


part two Efficiency in Tree Removal pt.2 Daniel Murphy 3 Tulip Removal - YouTube

 

[NCTREE]

Here's a tree i dropped in the street two summers ago to all you guys knocking on murph for dropping trees I say suck it!

http://www.arboristsite.com/picture-forum/162305.htm

 

[tree MDS]

A good buddy of mine had been doing tree work for 35+ years on the east coast.. moved out to Iowa a few years ago and comes back saying how the tree guys in Iowa are the most unskilled and un-knowledgeable he's ever seen.. I guarantee the climbers I work with would smoke the best climber you've ever seen in your life! You think you know what you're talking about, but you're a big fish in a small pond.. you can't even imagine there's a better way of doing tree work... the videos just don't make the same impression as seeing it in person.. It would drop your jaw.. So here's an example of what I AM talking about.. How bout you keeping your big mouth shut until you post a video that even comes close to this..

part 1 Efficiency in Tree Removal pt.1 Daniel Murphy 3 Tulip Removals - YouTube


part two Efficiency in Tree Removal pt.2 Daniel Murphy 3 Tulip Removal - YouTube

That Pat was pretty good. What ever happened to him?

 

[lxt]

:notrolls2: If you drop a tree in the road on purpose...............YOU SUCK!! I have to agree with millbilly somewhat, this thread is basically a joke........a guy states he dont like to climb, is 51 & outta shape, leaves stubs, drops trees on the road & causes visible collateral damage....................LMFAO, & then posts instructional videos!!!!

No wonder our trades not respected....! & Patriot tree, I might come off as an #######, but only regarding some hack promoting instructional videos who has no biz even doing tree work...........MDS, I agree & would like to know what happened to Pat also, thats when Murph posted alot more of actual tree work.......funny, ya lose your main man & now all you can do is notch & drop!!!

Later..............!



LXT.............

 

[tree MDS]

:notrolls2: If you drop a tree in the road on purpose...............YOU SUCK!! I have to agree with millbilly somewhat, this thread is basically a joke........a guy states he dont like to climb, is 51 & outta shape, leaves stubs, drops trees on the road & causes visible collateral damage....................LMFAO, & then posts instructional videos!!!!

No wonder our trades not respected....! & Patriot tree, I might come off as an #######, but only regarding some hack promoting instructional videos who has no biz even doing tree work...........MDS, I agree & would like to know what happened to Pat also, thats when Murph posted alot more of actual tree work.......funny, ya lose your main man & now all you can do is notch & drop!!!

Later..............!



LXT.............

I'm guessing Pat just couldn't deal with the whole circus atmosphere anymore... I mean all the cameras and BS flying around.. the man looked like he wasn't feeling it in the videos... that and maybe murph creeped him out a little. I mean you'd have to be stoned out your mind to deal with that freakshow.. or maybe that would just make it worse? not sure, but you get my point.

Whatever though, Pat was a good climber, that's for sure!

 

[jrider]

Here's a tree i dropped in the street two summers ago to all you guys knocking on murph for dropping trees I say suck it!

http://www.arboristsite.com/picture-forum/162305.htm

Thank you for bringing such an intelligent statement to the discussion. Is there a juvenile forum somewhere on this site that would be more suitable for a person of your maturity?

 

[Iustinian]

A good buddy of mine had been doing tree work for 35+ years on the east coast.. moved out to Iowa a few years ago and comes back saying how the tree guys in Iowa are the most unskilled and un-knowledgeable he's ever seen..

A good buddy of yours came to Iowa how long ago and watched every climber work? talked with them all and gauged their knowledge? Thats like my good buddy saying he's seen the ones in Philly and they're the biggest bunch of lazy sloppy unskilled unprofessional clowns with chainsaws he's ever seen.

I guarantee the climbers I work with would smoke the best climber you've ever seen in your life!

That's a pretty tall order. And a very blind and arrogant remark, consistent with your usual attitude. I watched, trained with, and learned from some of the best. Mark Chisholm, Christian Schultz, Noel Boyer, to name a few. So your bumbling videos aren't impressive to me. If my jaw drops at your videos, its because of the complete and total lack of regard for safety, professionalism, and property that you slide by with.

I've been able to work in nearly every aspect/situation that residential and commercial arboriculture can offer. Commercial land clearing (a situation in which I've felled more trees every day than you would in a month), Line clearing (a high voltage situation in which the administration would run you and your felling "techniques" out of the door the second you opened your mouth), Pruning (a situation in which leaving stubs is scarcely permitted), chemical treatments (micro&macro injections, spraying, etc), crane removals, even logging ( a situation in which we are expected to FELL 70-100 trees a day)

Loggers are true extreme precision fellers because they often have the least amount of space compared to any of us to drop that timber. You think you're good at felling? ha Walk your fat ass through 2 miles of dense brushy timber before you can even start the saw to make your first cut. Lets see you drop those monsters between and around the hundreds of trees you can't damage without topping yourself in. Bore cutting averaging less than a minute in each cut. And that's no exageration.

I'm the big fish in the small pond? hahaha I'm not the one patting myself on the back with videos ripe with all kinds of inconsistencies, laziness, and sloppy mistakes which lxt has pretty much covered over and over again. I never said I was the best, but I certainly take a great deal more due diligence than you.

you can't even imagine there's a better way of doing tree work...

I'm open to new methods and techniques, the people that are done learning are the ones who limit themselves. But you know what that's about being 51 and out of shape....haha

You have been so arrogant as to say that because we call felling a bigger risk that we lack the skill to do it. That is the most explicitly arrogant and ignorant assertion you've come out with yet, quite possibly the most obvious evidence of your absolute stupidity and stubborness. Some risk is still there, regardless of who is on the saw. A heart surgery is still very risky, no matter how skilled and experienced the surgeon.

You've yet to rise to the level of Extreme Precision Felling. And you are a consummate idiot.

 

[NCTREE]

Thank you for bringing such an intelligent statement to the discussion. Is there a juvenile forum somewhere on this site that would be more suitable for a person of your maturity?

What have you got to bring to the table? Huh! Let's see ! Come on! That's what I thought keep your mouth shut go back to the firewood where you belong.

 

[NCTREE]

Even though you come off as a huge ####### sometimes there is a bit of wisdom in your posts.

As far as dropping a tree into a yard goes I figure the customer gets what they pay for. For trees like that I would read the situation and inform the customer about how much lawn damage there would be or give them a price for rigging it down. If the customer wants it done quick and dirty I am down but I put that we are not responsible for lawn damage in the contract.

Now, I have dropped many a tree in the street and not done any damage..... I have also repatched a road once. Now that I have a bucket truck I can see you're point about it being unprofessional to drop a tree in the street. Back when we were climbing only....... damn right I would drop it in the street, especially in a culdesac..... gotta do what you gotta do.

I noticed you said bucket truck that's the key. I climb almost 100% of the time. If I can get the trunk on the ground fast with less wear and tear on the body I will. Ive only ever put one very small hole in the road from dropping a tree and the road was already shot. The township could careless in most areas around here. I'd love to be humored by watching someone drop catch that 40" ash spare. Not much room to let it run, wires and pole real close, a nice spruce on the other side.

 

[ropensaddle]

In the past I've worked for guys that did commercial land clearing with tree shears, whole tree chippers, skidders, as well as residential removals; they put alot of emphasis on felling every tree that its remotely possible on -- because they can't climb. Even with all that equipment available on our residential work days, the bucket truck and hand fed chipper goes out for the removals instead because of all the time and expense it takes to load and haul all that big stuff around.

"My tree is on the ground faster" is not what I'm talking about -- start to finish, from the moment the trucks leave the shop till the check gets cashed. Your cleanup of a felled tree is going to take considerably longer than my cleanup of a tree thats been limbed out; you'll be wasting time fixing the turf you damaged, making pruning cuts to fix the limbs you damaged on the adjacent trees (or are you still leaving stubs?)

My guess turf is considered casualty of war and some of my jobs are like that too. Many of the yards have nice weedbeds and stone here and work has got so cheapened that a little damage to the ground oh well. One thing is; the customer gets what they pay for but most times here wont pay what its worth! As is with most of the things associated with the business one job don't fit all. I on most of my bids ask them whats important to them cost or turf because if im not getting paid to take the time to lower everything you can bet its getting bombed. You can yell hack if you want but remember its in writing how they wanted it and many times there is very little damage anyway. Now if they want to pay I can promise not one ruffled leaf!

 

[murphy4trees]

You can drop names just fine, BUT I know better.. you claim its faster and easier to rig trees out than to drop them! That statement alone makes it clear, it'd blow your mind to spend one day with my crew.
The best example I can give you is the third tree dropped on this vid.. check it out at 11 seconds
cuttin' Trees 4_.mov - YouTube
It was a stone dead silver maple, falling apart in the back yard.. no truck access.. I was on site for one hour with three men. Tips actually touched the service lines without doing any damage. Neighbor wanted the wood moved to his yard. Lawn was pretty stiff and had minimal damage from the drop, which was easily repaired. Skid loader did no damage... 3+3 man/hours (travel + site) for $770... when I went to get paid I saw a competing bid from a known lowballer for $1700.. Apparently he thinks its faster and easier to rig out trees too. HAHA certainly wasn't safer.. that was a nasty tree..

So keep talkin crap and I'll keep putting wood on the ground.. In the mean time, we'd love to see you doing your "due diligence".. post up some vid to show us how good you really are.. that goes for LXT, MDS and anyone else.. Let's see what you got...

A good buddy of yours came to Iowa how long ago and watched every climber work? talked with them all and gauged their knowledge? Thats like my good buddy saying he's seen the ones in Philly and they're the biggest bunch of lazy sloppy unskilled unprofessional clowns with chainsaws he's ever seen.



That's a pretty tall order. And a very blind and arrogant remark, consistent with your usual attitude. I watched, trained with, and learned from some of the best. Mark Chisholm, Christian Schultz, Noel Boyer, to name a few. So your bumbling videos aren't impressive to me. If my jaw drops at your videos, its because of the complete and total lack of regard for safety, professionalism, and property that you slide by with.

I've been able to work in nearly every aspect/situation that residential and commercial arboriculture can offer. Commercial land clearing (a situation in which I've felled more trees every day than you would in a month), Line clearing (a high voltage situation in which the administration would run you and your felling "techniques" out of the door the second you opened your mouth), Pruning (a situation in which leaving stubs is scarcely permitted), chemical treatments (micro&macro injections, spraying, etc), crane removals, even logging ( a situation in which we are expected to FELL 70-100 trees a day)

Loggers are true extreme precision fellers because they often have the least amount of space compared to any of us to drop that timber. You think you're good at felling? ha Walk your fat ass through 2 miles of dense brushy timber before you can even start the saw to make your first cut. Lets see you drop those monsters between and around the hundreds of trees you can't damage without topping yourself in. Bore cutting averaging less than a minute in each cut. And that's no exageration.

I'm the big fish in the small pond? hahaha I'm not the one patting myself on the back with videos ripe with all kinds of inconsistencies, laziness, and sloppy mistakes which lxt has pretty much covered over and over again. I never said I was the best, but I certainly take a great deal more due diligence than you.





I'm open to new methods and techniques, the people that are done learning are the ones who limit themselves. But you know what that's about being 51 and out of shape....haha

You have been so arrogant as to say that because we call felling a bigger risk that we lack the skill to do it. That is the most explicitly arrogant and ignorant assertion you've come out with yet, quite possibly the most obvious evidence of your absolute stupidity and stubborness. Some risk is still there, regardless of who is on the saw. A heart surgery is still very risky, no matter how skilled and experienced the surgeon.

You've yet to rise to the level of Extreme Precision Felling. And you are a consummate idiot.

 

[ropensaddle]

I dont often agree with murph but if it can be put down without property damage, then it usually gets put down. The only difference is in method and or what is considered better to be put down. Again no size fits all, For instance tree can be felled but is on a cliff in back yard and must be carried out. Its going to be faster in that case to lower in the well manicured area. than to put men on the side of the hill in thick briars and wild rose carry everything up hill. Some of my work is semi rural and requires no clean up so in that scenario tree gets dropped over the cliff via my 20 ton winch! Like I said I don't always agree with murph but there are times he's right.

 

[murphy4trees]

Generally I don't bomb big stuff from the bucket or when climbing. I think its nearly as fast to lower, and I hate beating a lawn up like that, or worrying about a bad bounce into the shrubs etc.. However, I love to set up padding logs in a tight DZ and nail the drop...

Pat has always had a full time job.. he picks up work as a contract climber on weekends. Its been a year or more since we've worked together.

 

[murphy4trees]

If you drop a tree in the road on purpose...............YOU SUCK!!
LXT.............

What about if you drop it int he road "by accident" LOL... how about this.. if you think there is a problem with dropping trees in the road, you lack experience..

 

[Iustinian]

I agree that every tree is different -- and the bottom line that every customer is willing to pay is different. I dont get every job I bid on, because there's some that I'm not going to cut and chuck. I don't want to do every tree job in this area, I do the one's that pay well, and so it seems that we are working for people with different budgets and tastes.

Why would you even have Pat rig that tree down since you're such a great feller Murph? because at the time, you had a good climber. He's not working for you now, so now youre putting emphasis on felling. Pats a good climber, but that was a video of Pat, not you bigmouth, and it was obvious he didn't really enjoy being on film.

There are guys around here that are phenomenal climbers -- there's still crews talking about a climber named Ryan, who (w/o spikes) could climb and complete 7 trees in the time it took a 15 year veteran bucket operator close to the same age to do one. Pat is a good climber, but that video you put up is still -- not impressive to great climbers.

Your presentation is even amatuer. You guys are stammering and repeating yourself like you're nervous. Kinda like when lxt outed you on the non-existent book you claimed to have read. Watch the pros, Ken and Rip; how many years ago did they put out those video's? and they're still light years ahead of you -- in skill and presentation.

Even in your "proper pruning of the tulip tree", you're saying how you convinced this woman to do the right thing and properly prune the tulip instead of taking big limbs, and then completely went the other way by leaving the whole tree full of stubs.

Your crew is not going to blow my mind, I've dumped the big trees etc -- but there were big differences in those scenarios. We've done many many clearing projects for the city street and service reconstructions. There were times where the contractors gave me no choice but to drop peices no less than 20 feet long for skidding and whole tree chipping. HOWEVER, the street and all the properties on the site, we had easements because they were all being destroyed, that's the difference. We've done the same thing at the zoo, city parks, building sites, etc etc etc, in which we were encouraged or required to take huge peices for whole tree chipping, gave us all the opportunity to see how far we could push the limits and manipulate peices -- when the site is going to be destroyed, regraded, and rebuilt. Also when our cleanup consists of backdragging with a fork-grapple, and ignoring everything baseball bat size and smaller.

To be fair, I'll try to dig up a few videos for ya (we don't film that often, because its just not that big of a deal to us anymore, kinda like how my ten year old used to be so impressed with this, now its like a casual convo, so you climbing that one dad, or just using the bucket truck?) -- one in particular of a giant sycamore with back lean over two houses that we flopped into the street on a city reconstruction, just missing primary power lines -- the wharfing sound and dust cloud was ridiculous, but again, this thing was going into a whole tree chipper, and felled onto a street that was being destroyed. My preference was to rig it down, but the contractor demanded that it be done like that, and we were committed to that job, so I understand the do what you gotta do aspect, but at this point, I'm enjoying the rigging and climbing, and its working very very well to the extent that I dont have to justify doing what youre doing because of pricing. I hope I don't have to resort to that anytime soon, but I'm not going to rule out the possibility that as I get older I may sing a different tune.

And I understand dead trees are often an exception, but thats what cranes are for -- OMG more rigging lol.

I'm not knocking you for doing the felling to make it cheaper for a customer thats willing to take the risk in exchange for a cheaper price because you lack the climber that can make those bids work for you. I'm laughing because you claim there's less risk in it than the rigging, and that you haven't risen to the level of the label - Extreme Precision Felling.

 

[Iustinian]

What about if you drop it int he road "by accident" LOL... how about this.. if you think there is a problem with dropping trees in the road, you lack experience..

uh huh, lets get a city administrator on here or any municipal arborist on here and see what they have to say about that.

 

[lxt]

What about if you drop it int he road "by accident" LOL... how about this.. if you think there is a problem with dropping trees in the road, you lack experience..

Dude you are a clowns ball bag..........I have posted pics......Pics of trees you have to rig down!!!!! cause the notch & drop jobs you show us are the ones all the grass cudders are doing out my way & even they dont drop a tree in the road!!!

its one thing to drop a tree & the owner is aware of some damages....but its another thing to just drop it cause you lack skill to climb & rig thus making a show outta some half whittled on spar that you were afraid to finish (to bad Pats gone uh?)........Funny you tried to sell that old couple on bringing in a crane & then whatta we view............a show of stupidity by shooting a pine over a row of hedges!!! Try craddling a whole top over a house & garage with power lines there & then tell me how good you are!! I Did!

you are a bladder full of hot air & couldnt even begin to roll up my climbing rope, all these guys siding with ya are from your area or close & apparently operate in the same hackish way, where Im at you divet the yard even after telling the home owner they expect it fixed, you drop a tree on a road here & I gaurantee you will be run outta town & fined by way of public ordinance.

your videos are an instructional how not to do something, Ya know im inclined to put AA on a higher level than you.....much higher, he`s in his mid 60`s & in better shape than you, atleast he climbs & does the job maybe not gracefully but better than you!! & even he takes the time & has the decency to try to prevent damage to yards..... he doesnt drop em on the road!!! as much as we might poke fun at his lawn mower at least he has the yards in mind with turf tires!!! your skidsteer will rip the hell outta a yard on a dry day let alone this time of year!!

So...... with that being said, it is clear you are worse than AA ever could be........Im starting to think AA`s videos are worth watching more than yours............so when you need a lesson pigtails.....just look up mine & MDS pictures....now these may be rare cause we actually work more than we are worried about showing off..............but then our work does that for us!!! unlike you...!




LXT................

 

[millbilly]

uh huh, lets get a city administrator on here or any municipal arborist on here and see what they have to say about that.

I can't help it, I wasn't gonna post any more, but thats like me eating a single potatoe chip.

Why do you allways, gotta ask somebody what they think? Those guys know less than a ground man. Im beginning to think you might just be a ground man, always askin sombody something, wantin to know somethin. Just do your job, leave the thinkin to those who know.

I don't wanna say this, but I dont rember seeing to many trees over 80' in Iowa. The big ones get blown down from the tornados and your winters are to harsh. Its like comparing our mid atlantic trees to northern California.