Husqvarna Homeqwner Saw Plastic Construction

[DSS]

Its because its cheaper. Nobody can tell me they do it for any other reason on these homeowner saws.

Unfortunately I don't know any big words, hopefully everyone can understand my post anyway.

 

[Dan_in_WI]

I missed this one.

Narcissism will do that.

All the bearing caps are symmetrical on the ones I've worked on.

I could see it going either way.

Maybe it's the big words.

If you're having comprehension problems I could resume posting definitions.

 

[Dan_in_WI]

Its because its cheaper. Nobody can tell me they do it for any other reason on these homeowner saws.

Unfortunately I don't know any big words, hopefully everyone can understand my post anyway.

WTF are you talking about cow?

 

[Chris-PA]

Narcissism will do that.

Naw, it's just with all the "contributions" of the squatting bear posts can be hard to find.

 

[DSS]

WTF are you talking about cow?

See, I confused you. This is what I was worried about. My sorry.

 

[Dan_in_WI]

Naw, it's just with all the "contributions" of the squatting bear posts can be hard to find.

I'm not so sure that isn't a giant albino honey badger.

Just sayin'

 

[Chris-PA]

This is a lousy photo but it's the best I could find - the bottom of a 235/240. Looks like it still has those tubes, although they might be part of the insert.

 

[stihl023/5]

This is a lousy photo but it's the best I could find - the bottom of a 235/240. Looks like it still has those tubes, although they might be part of the insert.

Those are to control collapse just like the side cover inserts.

 

[Stihlofadeal64]

I am not an experienced Husky guy. I've worked on more clam shell Stihl's than I care to count. I understand the OP's questions. I have enjoyed some of the replies, in the technical realm they have been intriguing. It seems interesting the Poulan (green saw) is designed somewhat like a Stihl 025. I do like the fact that the 021/023/025 (ms250 etc...) are made so that you can take the whole clam shell assembly out (reassemble the engine and install it that way). The sideways banter included in the thread is not helping me learn anything (although I understand it happens). Otherwise, I am intrigued by the clam shell design and would love to tear into one of these saws just to see how similar it would be --say to the MS290.


opcorn:


PS.
After working in manufacturing for years, I must also add that trying to understand "why" engineers do what they do is like trying to run around in the rain without getting wet. I do appreciate what they design (sometimes) but it usually takes several guys on the floor to show them it is possible that it either can't be made, there is an easier process the will aid it to be done in half the cost and half the time, or that it is about 99% possible that they smoked their lunch on the day they tried to put all this together. Now the stories behind that comment are too long to digress here....:msp_tongue:

 

[machinisttx]

PS.
After working in manufacturing for years, I must also add that trying to understand "why" engineers do what they do is like trying to run around in the rain without getting wet. I do appreciate what they design (sometimes)

There are a few, very few, good engineers out there. Most worked in manufacturing prior to going into engineering. That said, your comment is spot on.

The first shop I worked in was a toolroom. There was a set of stamping dies for a particular part that were being wrecked over short production runs, much shorter than they should have been. I had been in the trade for about 6 months, looked at the tooling and said, "the material(for the stamped part) is too hard". Evidently, everyone else there had already told management about this, but the engineers refused to believe it. After tens of thousands of dollars spent in making new tooling, lost production time, etc., an engineer finally spent five minutes to go check the material hardness. It was close to twice as hard as it was supposed to be.

Same shop, before I went to work there. A new injection mold was being machined and someone was drilling the mold bases for coolant lines. The supervisor couldn't understand why it had to be drilled from two different sides. He thought they should be able to drill 12 or 15 inches deep and make a right angle, so they'd only have to drill from one side. They had an engineer for a supervisor at the time.

 

[Steve NW WI]

There are a few, very few, good engineers out there. Most worked in manufacturing prior to going into engineering. That said, your comment is spot on.

The first shop I worked in was a toolroom. There was a set of stamping dies for a particular part that were being wrecked over short production runs, much shorter than they should have been. I had been in the trade for about 6 months, looked at the tooling and said, "the material(for the stamped part) is too hard". Evidently, everyone else there had already told management about this, but the engineers refused to believe it. After tens of thousands of dollars spent in making new tooling, lost production time, etc., an engineer finally spent five minutes to go check the material hardness. It was close to twice as hard as it was supposed to be.

Same shop, before I went to work there. A new injection mold was being machined and someone was drilling the mold bases for coolant lines. The supervisor couldn't understand why it had to be drilled from two different sides. He thought they should be able to drill 12 or 15 inches deep and make a right angle, so they'd only have to drill from one side. They had an engineer for a supervisor at the time.

Amen brother! I work in metal stamping. The engineering stupidity got so bad that we (shop floor guys) finally got the plant manager's ear about the crap we put up with. Engineers now have to attend our daily meetings twice a week, and their designs go through production before they're approved for building. BTW, want some difficult material to work with? Try Domex - high grade Swedish abrasion resistant stuff that's (relatively) punchable and formable. Huge headaches when we started making parts from that stuff.

For WoodheatWarrrior, the best reason I see for the molded in bottom plate is to ensure consistent motor to chassis alignment, with the insert molded in. But mostly, it's because some ####### engineer thought it was a good idea.

 

[sachsmo]

Engineering 101;

"If you cant befuddle them with brilliance, Baffle them with bullchit"

Yes being in the trades for 30 years I have worked with more than a few, most aren't very well rounded, they keep going back to the same stuff over and over again.

 

[thomas1]

I am surprised at some of these responses. Engineers are beyond reproach, but you people probably aren't smart enough to understand why.

 

[Chris-PA]

Understand that engineering is a very broad discipline - there are guys (and a few gals) that go from purely mathematical/theoretical and would not know which end of a tool to hold to others of us who were tearing apart cars before we could drive. There is a manufacturing floor 30' from my desk, and I'm not sure the doors in between have ever been closed. If it doesn't fit or can't be made they'll be at my desk in a heartbeat - but then I'll probably know that because the engineers build all the prototypes personally so we get to find out how to put them together. And it goes both ways, as I cannot count the times people have decided to change things in production without understanding how or why it was designed the way it was, and then sometimes someone has to figure out how many units they screwed up and recall the products.

And sometimes it doesn't work like you planned - I had picked a thread forming case screw as opposed to thread cutting, in order to keep aluminum chips from getting in the electronics. They have tapered ends and a tri-lobe shape to form the threads (exactly like the hardware used on the Poulan engines). They were phillips head screw and I bought anti-cam out bits. They worked great for me on the power drivers in production, they'd sink right in and the driver would hit the torque limit and stop dead.

BUT

There are a lot of ladies on the production floor, and they didn't put any force on the driver at all (it is suspended). They'd hit the trigger and that tapered end of the screw would grind out a big cone of aluminum chips until it took a bite, and half the time even the anti-cam out bits would just bounce out of the screws. They got it eventually, but we still had to blow out the cases with an air hose. Years later I redesigned the extrusion for a different screw with coarser threads and a square drive head. If you've ever used square drive deck screws you know how solid they are, but some of them even had trouble keeping that bit in the screws at first.

 

[Chris-PA]

I am surprised at some of these responses. Engineers are beyond reproach, but you people probably aren't smart enough to understand why.

Do you ever get tired of flinging oop: , or is that just what it's all about?

 

[sachsmo]

I am surprised at some of these responses. Engineers are beyond reproach, but you people probably aren't smart enough to understand why.

Yes,

"beyond reproach"

"See that Engineering Degree on the wall" that my Friend makes me smarter than you"

I have a Hispanic buddy at work that said he could get me any kind of document I wanted.

After a go around with the Plant Engineer I told him I wanted him to get me a PHD of Mechanical Engineering from Rose Hulman.

I think I've earned it after all these years!

 

[thomas1]

Understand that engineering is a very broad discipline - there are guys (and a few gals) that go from purely mathematical/theoretical and would not know which end of a tool to hold to others of us who were tearing apart cars before we could drive. There is a manufacturing floor 30' from my desk, and I'm not sure the doors in between have ever been closed. If it doesn't fit or can't be made they'll be at my desk in a heartbeat - but then I'll probably know that because the engineers build all the prototypes personally so we get to find out how to put them together. And it goes both ways, as I cannot count the times people have decided to change things in production without understanding how or why it was designed the way it was, and then sometimes someone has to figure out how many units they screwed up and recall the products.

And sometimes it doesn't work like you planned - I had picked a thread forming case screw as opposed to thread cutting, in order to keep aluminum chips from getting in the electronics. They have tapered ends and a tri-lobe shape to form the threads (exactly like the hardware used on the Poulan engines). They were phillips head screw and I bought anti-cam out bits. They worked great for me on the power drivers in production, they'd sink right in and the driver would hit the torque limit and stop dead.

BUT

There are a lot of ladies on the production floor, and they didn't put any force on the driver at all (it is suspended). They'd hit the trigger and that tapered end of the screw would grind out a big cone of aluminum chips until it took a bite, and half the time even the anti-cam out bits would just bounce out of the screws. They got it eventually, but we still had to blow out the cases with an air hose. Years later I redesigned the extrusion for a different screw with coarser threads and a square drive head. If you've ever used square drive deck screws you know how solid they are, but some of them even had trouble keeping that bit in the screws at first.

Short version:

You designed something. You thought it was a great idea. You had to retrain the entire production staff in order to make your idea work and even then it didn't do what it was supposed to (eliminate chips in the assembly). Years go by and you finally re-design it so it works instead of listening to the people on the floor who told you it was a bad idea in the first place.

Funny how all the things that work are your idea and everything that doesn't is someone else's, typical engineering practice.

 

[sachsmo]

Aye Carumba,

you hit it on the head my brother.

A good Engineer, Tech or anyone who is OVERHEAD needs to learn them little ladies or young men know more about the process than you ever could just looking at some screen all day.

When I started in the trades an older guy told me something I will carry to my grave. He said;

"Listen to the production people, they can make your life hell, or make it golden"

That my Friend should be engineering 101!

 

[stihl023/5]

Aye Carumba,

you hit it on the head my brother.

A good Engineer, Tech or anyone who is OVERHEAD needs to learn them little ladies or young men know more about the process than you ever could just looking at some screen all day.

When I started in the trades an older guy told me something I will carry to my grave. He said;

"Listen to the production people, they can make your life hell, or make it golden"

That my Friend should be engineering 101!

Words to live by.

 

[Chris-PA]

Short version:

You designed something. You thought it was a great idea. You had to retrain the entire production staff in order to make your idea work and even then it didn't do what it was supposed to (eliminate chips in the assembly). Years go by and you finally re-design it so it works instead of listening to the people on the floor who told you it was a bad idea in the first place.

Funny how all the things that work are your idea and everything that doesn't is someone else's, typical engineering practice.

Well poop-flinging bear, it was a tail of when things don't go right (or did you miss that?). And no, we didn't have to retain the entire production staff, just deal with the few who had no mechanical feel. Most never had any problem with it at all. What makes you think I wasn't "listening to the people on the floor who told you it was a bad idea in the first place." - do you really think they were suggesting better ideas or alternate hardware? The design worked fine for 10 years and no one thought it worth retooling the parts for - it was addressed when the parts were redesigned for other reasons.

I'm hearing the typical bitter and angry us vs. them reactionary viewpoint. The reality is that to make good products production and design staff work together. There are people in production I have worked with for 25 years, and when one of us talks to the other we all damn well listen, because we are all dedicated and experienced. Nobody gives a crap where the ideas come from or who thought it up, we work together to solve problems and make good stuff. If someone got hired with the kinds of attitudes being displayed here they wouldn't last long, as the neither the rest of the production staff or the engineers would put up with it. And you wonder why most design and manufacturing is done in China now?

So let me ask you folks who think engineers are useless a question: Given the choice to buy two chainsaws, one designed by an engineering staff, and one by the production staff, which would you put your money on?