441 vs.460

[homelitejim]

I am by no means a pro so I am asking a question about how a person "feels" what his chainsaw is doing in the tree. I cut firewood for me and a few others, I use a 260 and a regular 441 and only fall dead trees. I use my eyes and ears mostly for seeing and hearing what the saw and tree are doing, my 441 has the soft springs and I can tell when I hit a soft spot or a hollow spot purely on the sound of the saw speeding up and the different chip discharge and I feel when the saw is hitting these conditions, I can also tell when a tree is really seasoned or if it has some water in it due to rain by how the saw sounds and feels. The softer springs have not hampered me in feeling these conditions when I am using my other senses. I guess what I am asking is, is there something more I am missing? I know when a tree is ready to go before it starts, I can also sense when a tree might not go where I want it because of a loaded twist, a gust of wind in the top, or some rot or hollow spot shifting the load. I just don't see how I am hampered by using the soft spring 441. What it does offer is a smoother ride, less tingling in my hands at the end of the day, less down time between cutting due to fatigue. I am not trying to dog anyone, I really am not sure about if I am feeling everything I should be.

 

[cmiller]

I've been wanting to get a 460 for sometime now. I currently have a 361 and don't cut enough or cut big enough to justify a bigger saw. I just want to have one! I work as a firefighter and I use the 460 there and love the torque of a big saw. I was in the stihl dealer yesterday and he told me that the 441's were being discontinued and that the 440 was back. He also told me that he was unaware of the 461 and stihl discontinuing the 460. My question is; when is the 460 being discontinued and why is the 440 back when I've read such good things here about the 441 M-Tronic? Also, here in Utah you pretty much have to pay full retail for a new stihl chainsaw. If you try and shop arround, all the dealers are set on the same price and won't budge much. Why is that?

 

[homelitejim]

My dealer here never heard of the ms261 even though it had been out for a few months, he also didn't know about the limited run of 440's or the 291, 461, 661. My point is stick around here and you will be more knowledgeable than your uninformed dealer.

 

[Nailsbeats]

I am by no means a pro so I am asking a question about how a person "feels" what his chainsaw is doing in the tree. I cut firewood for me and a few others, I use a 260 and a regular 441 and only fall dead trees. I use my eyes and ears mostly for seeing and hearing what the saw and tree are doing, my 441 has the soft springs and I can tell when I hit a soft spot or a hollow spot purely on the sound of the saw speeding up and the different chip discharge and I feel when the saw is hitting these conditions, I can also tell when a tree is really seasoned or if it has some water in it due to rain by how the saw sounds and feels. The softer springs have not hampered me in feeling these conditions when I am using my other senses. I guess what I am asking is, is there something more I am missing? I know when a tree is ready to go before it starts, I can also sense when a tree might not go where I want it because of a loaded twist, a gust of wind in the top, or some rot or hollow spot shifting the load. I just don't see how I am hampered by using the soft spring 441. What it does offer is a smoother ride, less tingling in my hands at the end of the day, less down time between cutting due to fatigue. I am not trying to dog anyone, I really am not sure about if I am feeling everything I should be.

What is meant is when you push on the saw the bar moves. Instead with a spring mounted saw the bar moves after you max out the spring (in some cases) and then it plays catch up, there is a lot of travel there that doesn't exist in the older models. The rubber mount allows you to know exactly where that bar is in the tree at any given time. When you push it 1" it moves 1".

With the spring mount saw, there is a delay there that you have to learn to feel. Giving a faller a new spring mount saw would cause him to have to change his feel, or groove if you will.

 

[user 64030]

I really got to stop reading this thread... It has me jonsen for a 441 M-tronic, looking at prices, comparing specs, last time I did that I took a 660 home. Just can't figure why I want it so darn bad.

Hmm trade the 361 up to the 441, the 441 is a little big to be my "little" saw. :hmm3grin2orange:

dw

 

[homelitejim]

What is meant is when you push on the saw the bar moves. Instead with a spring mounted saw the bar moves after you max out the spring (in some cases) and then it plays catch up, there is a lot of travel there that doesn't exist in the older models. The rubber mount allows you to know exactly where that bar is in the tree at any given time. When you push it 1" it moves 1".

With the spring mount saw, there is a delay there that you have to learn to feel. Giving a faller a new spring mount saw would cause him to have to change his feel, or groove if you will.

Maybe the disconnect is in the tree, live vs. dead. I always let the saw self feed so I can see where it is going and adjust my line or depth depending on what I am running into in the dead tree. The 441 has plenty of power and chain speed to really move through the wood while self feeding. When I do have to load up the AV I notice that I do it before getting on the throttle, I guess I have gotten used to the softer AV and have adjusted to it, and it must have been right away because I don't remember an exact time when I changed my technique to adjust to the saw. Maybe since I have used many different vintages and brands of saws it is easier for me to adjust to new feels over a guy who only uses 1 saw day in and day out, I don't know, just trying to understand.

 

[novaman64]

I really got to stop reading this thread... It has me jonsen for a 441 M-tronic, looking at prices, comparing specs, last time I did that I took a 660 home. Just can't figure why I want it so darn bad.

Hmm trade the 361 up to the 441, the 441 is a little big to be my "little" saw. :hmm3grin2orange:

dw

Loose the 361, get a 441 and a 261. Problem solved! :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Stihlman441]

I really got to stop reading this thread... It has me jonsen for a 441 M-tronic, looking at prices, comparing specs, last time I did that I took a 660 home. Just can't figure why I want it so darn bad.

Hmm trade the 361 up to the 441, the 441 is a little big to be my "little" saw. :hmm3grin2orange:

dw

Trade the 361 and get a 261 and 441C and you will be a happy man.:msp_thumbsup:

 

[CR500]

Maybe the disconnect is in the tree, live vs. dead. I always let the saw self feed so I can see where it is going and adjust my line or depth depending on what I am running into in the dead tree. The 441 has plenty of power and chain speed to really move through the wood while self feeding. When I do have to load up the AV I notice that I do it before getting on the throttle, I guess I have gotten used to the softer AV and have adjusted to it, and it must have been right away because I don't remember an exact time when I changed my technique to adjust to the saw. Maybe since I have used many different vintages and brands of saws it is easier for me to adjust to new feels over a guy who only uses 1 saw day in and day out, I don't know, just trying to understand.

Maybe someone could clarify but The R models of the 441 have stiffer springs which does get rid of that spongy feeling most people do complain about when using the 441.

 

[sgrizz]

Maybe someone could clarify but The R models of the 441 have stiffer springs which does get rid of that spongy feeling most people do complain about when using the 441.

I also would like to know about the springs . I have the 441 that i got 2 years ago (non m tronic) and the springs feel soft to me. there is no part # on the springs maybe the dia. of the springs are thicker then the other?

 

[AdamG]

I do not mean to hijack this thread, but I am seriously considering the 460 and would like some input between these two saws.

I will be cutting roughly 20-25 bundles of hardwood slabwood and 5-6 trees/year. (all this is estimation, btw. This is my first year with the boiler, so while i have a rough idea of my wood usage- I could be totally out of line. I feel that i will use at least this though) My boiler door is 22x30- so unless I come across a tree that is in my way, 25” dia is about the largest I would cut.

My initial consideration when thinking about a saw and the main reason I am leaning towards the 460 now is I would like to cut a full jig-load of slab in one swipe (roughly 36"). The saw would not wear a 36 all the time, just when cutting slab. trees would probably go down to a 20 or 25.
Was pretty dead set on a 460 up untill reading this thread. I don't plan on living on the saw, so AV really hasn't been my number one priority. However reading some of the comments on the m-tronic and such has really peaked my intrest.
Will the 441 wear a 36" with pride, or should I stick with the 460 idea? (I know even the 460 is spec'd out at 32" max but have been told pretty much universally that it could handle a 36 no problem in slabwood)

Thanks for any input!
Adam

 

[Slamm]

The 441 MTronic will handle the 36" bar without any problem. The power difference between it and the 460 isn't enough to worry about (if it even exists, after its broken in), but the fuel efficiency and the much nicer AV system and Air filtration system are great PRO's, the 441 has the same oiler as the 460 and can be modified to oil as much as you want to, for very cheap, so that is a none issue with regards to the 36" bar. One additional note on oiling bars, the 441 comes with a larger oil tank, which is another good thing, for those that want to empty the oil tank for every fuel tank, especially when considering how long a 441 can run on a tank of gas.

I have ran my 36" bar on my modded 441 and it pulls it just fine, as in I'm not worried that I should be running my modded 660 with the 36" bar.

As a note on the softer springs that come with a regular (non-wrap) model of the 441 or the 441 MTronic. I've cut now for multiple years with either or both and its really only a big deal if you want it to be or if you bore cut a lot with 28" and longer bars. I actually prefer the softer springs for bucking up with 20-25" ES bars or with these new 28" Lite bars, That said, I somewhat contradict myself, by admitting, I don't have soft springs on any of the 5 441's that I have, as I was using them all at one point or another with 28" ES Regular weight bars, and felling trees, and they get a little floppy with those, but it never was a deal breaker for anyone of us that was running them and felling trees. I had 2 saws set up for bucking up and they were the ones with the soft springs and the felling saws were the ones I had bought that were wrap models and therefore came with the heavier springs.


My .02,

Sam

 

[MacLaren]

I do not mean to hijack this thread, but I am seriously considering the 460 and would like some input between these two saws.

I will be cutting roughly 20-25 bundles of hardwood slabwood and 5-6 trees/year. (all this is estimation, btw. This is my first year with the boiler, so while i have a rough idea of my wood usage- I could be totally out of line. I feel that i will use at least this though) My boiler door is 22x30- so unless I come across a tree that is in my way, 25” dia is about the largest I would cut.

My initial consideration when thinking about a saw and the main reason I am leaning towards the 460 now is I would like to cut a full jig-load of slab in one swipe (roughly 36"). The saw would not wear a 36 all the time, just when cutting slab. trees would probably go down to a 20 or 25.
Was pretty dead set on a 460 up untill reading this thread. I don't plan on living on the saw, so AV really hasn't been my number one priority. However reading some of the comments on the m-tronic and such has really peaked my intrest.
Will the 441 wear a 36" with pride, or should I stick with the 460 idea? (I know even the 460 is spec'd out at 32" max but have been told pretty much universally that it could handle a 36 no problem in slabwood)

Thanks for any input!
Adam

Adam, if Im reading this right, and you are only gonna be cutting 5-6 trees per year about a max of 25" diameter, some bigger. Well, everyone has an opinion. If I were you i would get the 460 and send it to tree monkey to be ported. You will love the power it has and have a lot of fun with that saw. Ultimately its up to you my friend. A lot of good suggestions. But keep in mind a ported 460 is awesome fun. And a lot stronger than a stock 441M-Tronic.

 

[Slamm]

Adam, if Im reading this right, and you are only gonna be cutting 5-6 trees per year about a max of 25" diameter, some bigger. Well, everyone has an opinion. If I were you i would get the 460 and send it to tree monkey to be ported. You will love the power it has and have a lot of fun with that saw. Ultimately its up to you my friend. A lot of good suggestions. But keep in mind a ported 460 is awesome fun. And a lot stronger than a stock 441M-Tronic.

LOL, is it not faster than a ported 441 M-Tronic (not likely, if so, not likely to be very much). One of the modded 441 Mtronics I know of was tested against a nicely modded 460 from the same builder and the 460 got its pants handed to it. Smart money is on the less expensive 441, M-Tronic or not and then take the money you saved on the initial purchase and get it modded, it will out cut the stock or not, 460 and be more efficient with better AV, air filtration and a larger oil tank.

Same for same, the 441 cuts more wood,

Keep in mind a ported 441 is awesome fun, as well, and since you get to spend more time cutting and not filling up the tank, you get to cut for longer, so more fun in a days time, but I do understand there are some that like/enjoy sitting around filling up their saws and fondling them instead of cutting wood, thats why there are different saws made.

Sam

 

[MacLaren]

LOL, is it not faster than a ported 441 M-Tronic (not likely, if so, not likely to be very much). One of the modded 441 Mtronics I know of was tested against a nicely modded 460 from the same builder and the 460 got its pants handed to it. Smart money is on the less expensive 441, M-Tronic or not and then take the money you saved on the initial purchase and get it modded, it will out cut the stock or not, 460 and be more efficient with better AV, air filtration and a larger oil tank.

Same for same, the 441 cuts more wood,

Keep in mind a ported 441 is awesome fun, as well, and since you get to spend more time cutting and not filling up the tank, you get to cut for longer, so more fun in a days time, but I do understand there are some that like/enjoy sitting around filling up their saws and fondling them instead of cutting wood, thats why there are different saws made.

Sam

Sam, what the hell was I thinkin.......your right as usual!!!
Ya know Sam, I wasnt even talkin to you. I was making a suggestion to the OP and as usual you start your bullchit again. I NEVER said a ported 461 was a lot stronger than a ported 441M I was referring to a stock 441M Although I would bet good money that tree monkey 460 would hand a ported 441M its azz and then some.....

 

[user 64030]

Loose the 361, get a 441 and a 261. Problem solved! :hmm3grin2orange:

Trade the 361 and get a 261 and 441C and you will be a happy man.:msp_thumbsup:

Had a little Déjà vu there for a second. :hmm3grin2orange:


dw

 

[Stihlman441]

Im with Sam on this one.
A 460 or 441C MTronic (wrap model) are both grate saws and porting them make um better.
BUT
I have said this before the 441C MTronic has way better user friendly goodys.

I think ya better off with the wrap model even if ya change the handle back to a standard one,for the extra $40 or $50 you get
Twin bumper spikes
Roller chain catcher
High out put oiler
Large clutch cover
Stiffer AV springs
Can and do run a 28'' bar on it even in Ozzy hard woods no problem and oils easy.
A ported 460 may be a bit quicker but the MTronic has a lot better user friendly fetchers
Much better AV
Much better filter system
Much better on fuel
Easyer start system
No tune
Brilliant
:msp_thumbsup:

 

[MacLaren]

Im with Sam on this one.
A 460 or 441C MTronic (wrap model) are both grate saws and porting them make um better.
BUT
I have said this before the 441C MTronic has way better user friendly goodys.

I think ya better off with the wrap model even if ya change the handle back to a standard one,for the extra $40 or $50 you get
Twin bumper spikes
Roller chain catcher
High out put oiler
Large clutch cover
Stiffer AV springs
Can and do run a 28'' bar on it even in Ozzy hard woods no problem and oils easy.
A ported 460 may be a bit quicker but the MTronic has a lot better user friendly fetchers
Much better AV
Much better filter system
Much better on fuel
Easyer start system
No tune
Brilliant
:msp_thumbsup:

I hear ya man. I think either way he cant really go wrong. I was just considering his usage really. Sounds like he wont worry about production or anything, so why not have some fun with a great ported 460. But like i say either saw will surely do.:msp_thumbup:

 

[Stihlman441]

The thing is as well even the guys with min saw tune experience cant go wrong with the no tune technology.:cool2:

 

[WidowMaker1]

460 hands down for me if i had to choose one ....but i like old school non strato "traditional" muscle ..In reality the 660 is the only choice for me!! ..and the 660 is the only New stihl i can get without flippys. lol