(Amsoil) Question for the OIL experts?

[TADD]

No smoke? Klotz R50 doesn't smoke at all at 32:1 once warmed up. That's certainly no big deal. Amsoil makes good products, but don't just go on their own advertising and testing. Of course they claim to be the best!

Most people choose products based on advertising... but very few put out the detailed independent lab testing literature that Amsoil does. So where does that leave people when it comes to making there choices? Word of mouth, and the literature I guess...I do use Amsoil, and for years now. All I can say is don't be cheap and use at 50:1, it's good insurance and still very little to no smoke.
Nothing on you knowledge base Brad... I just used quoted you as a way in to this thread.

 

[parrisw]

Most people choose products based on advertising... but very few put out the detailed independent lab testing literature that Amsoil does. So where does that leave people when it comes to making there choices? Word of mouth, and the literature I guess...I do use Amsoil, and for years now. All I can say is don't be cheap and use at 50:1, it's good insurance and still very little to no smoke.
Nothing on you knowledge base Brad... I just used quoted you as a way in to this thread.

I can't see any smoke with Amsoil at 50:1, only a little when cold, but that's normal with a 2 stroke.

 

[Adirondack]

No, testing at 100:1 or 300:1 doesn't mean the machine made more power (ran better) at that ratio, it just means that it ran and didn't lunch itself, a big difference.



No. Just compare flash points (and I've listed a heap in the past)

Amsoil Sabre ATP 114*C (Not JASO licensed)
Stihl HP Ultra 222*C (JASO FB, Castrol Europe/Omni lubricants US)
Castrol Power 1 Racing TTS 76*C (Australian blend, JASO FD license)
Castrol Power RS TTS 70*C (US blend, JASO FD license)
Castrol R2 Racing Bike 87*C (Australian blend, JASO FC license)
Castrol A747 274*C (GP racing bike oil, castor/synthetic blend)
Castrol XR77 223*C (Current GP racing bike oil, full ester synthetic blend, replaces A747 in extreme use)
Dolmar synthetic 2 stroke oil 99*C (US Blend, Spectrum Lubricants)
Elf HTX 909 270*C (synthetic/castor blend, kart engines, up to 25,000RPM)
Elf HTX 976 208* (synthetic, GP bike blend)
Husky XP oil 102*C (US blend, Spectrum Lubricants)
Klotz R50 204*C (synthetic)
Klotz Super Techniplate 238*C (syn/20% castor blend)
Mqaxima Castor 927 216*C (castor/synthetic blend)
Mobil 1 Racing 2T 110*C (Australian spec, JASO FC license)
Motul 710 88*C (JASO FD)
Motul 800 2T Off Road 252*C (GP MX blend)
Motul 88 2T Road 274*C (GP road bike blend)
Redline Racing 103*C
Redline Smokeless 82*C (equivalent to Ams Sabre, for chainsaw/OPE use)
Silkolene Pro 2 210*C

The JASO FC/FD oils generally have lower flash points to minimise smoke and meet the cleanliness requirements of the JASO licensing (and Sabre isn't licensed)
The race specific oils have pretty high flash points, and yet the full syns have minimal smoke anyway, as a few fella's have noted above.
In my case I use Motul 800 2T OR @ 40:1 and note little to no smoke or odour in use.

You need oil for ring seal, as well as bearing protection and piston skirt scuff protection.
The more oil, the better the ring seal (and skirt scuff protection). To get piston skirts to survive at leaner than 50:1 ratios that the manufacturers have designed for, the blender needs to load the oil with greater amounts of Anti-wear (AW) and Extreme Pressure (EP) additives and it will work, but what about ring seal ?
Dyno testing has proven that fatter (richer) oil/fuel ratios make more power and it's all down to sealing the combustion chamber during the firing/combustion process. Probably doesn't matter in a little strimmer, but it's a big deal in bikes/karts and a few people that run saws.

Chainsaws develop minimal BMEP (brake mean effective pressure) compared to other high performance two strokes. This is just a fancy engineering term for less specific power than kart and GP bike engines, which are developing over 400BHP/litre these days. As a consequence HP karts still use around 16:1 mix ratios to prevent seizing.
The interesting thing is that the oil companies often recommend changing to their racing oils from their high performance synthetics at around 14,000 RPM. Saws also cop a caning in terms of temps as they often have their fins blocked with chips and dust, so to my mind why skimp on mix ratio ? 32 to 50:1 is cheap insurance IMO.



I think I've put forward my thoughts above

Thanks Tdi Rick,
Thanks for taking the time to post your message. I think to be on the safe side I will use amsoil but make sure it is at 50:1. It can not hurt.

 

[mwood1986]

No, testing at 100:1 or 300:1 doesn't mean the machine made more power (ran better) at that ratio, it just means that it ran and didn't lunch itself, a big difference.



No. Just compare flash points (and I've listed a heap in the past)

Amsoil Sabre ATP 114*C (Not JASO licensed)
Stihl HP Ultra 222*C (JASO FB, Castrol Europe/Omni lubricants US)
Castrol Power 1 Racing TTS 76*C (Australian blend, JASO FD license)
Castrol Power RS TTS 70*C (US blend, JASO FD license)
Castrol R2 Racing Bike 87*C (Australian blend, JASO FC license)
Castrol A747 274*C (GP racing bike oil, castor/synthetic blend)
Castrol XR77 223*C (Current GP racing bike oil, full ester synthetic blend, replaces A747 in extreme use)
Dolmar synthetic 2 stroke oil 99*C (US Blend, Spectrum Lubricants)
Elf HTX 909 270*C (synthetic/castor blend, kart engines, up to 25,000RPM)
Elf HTX 976 208* (synthetic, GP bike blend)
Husky XP oil 102*C (US blend, Spectrum Lubricants)
Klotz R50 204*C (synthetic)
Klotz Super Techniplate 238*C (syn/20% castor blend)
Mqaxima Castor 927 216*C (castor/synthetic blend)
Mobil 1 Racing 2T 110*C (Australian spec, JASO FC license)
Motul 710 88*C (JASO FD)
Motul 800 2T Off Road 252*C (GP MX blend)
Motul 88 2T Road 274*C (GP road bike blend)
Redline Racing 103*C
Redline Smokeless 82*C (equivalent to Ams Sabre, for chainsaw/OPE use)
Silkolene Pro 2 210*C

The JASO FC/FD oils generally have lower flash points to minimise smoke and meet the cleanliness requirements of the JASO licensing (and Sabre isn't licensed)
The race specific oils have pretty high flash points, and yet the full syns have minimal smoke anyway, as a few fella's have noted above.
In my case I use Motul 800 2T OR @ 40:1 and note little to no smoke or odour in use.

You need oil for ring seal, as well as bearing protection and piston skirt scuff protection.
The more oil, the better the ring seal (and skirt scuff protection). To get piston skirts to survive at leaner than 50:1 ratios that the manufacturers have designed for, the blender needs to load the oil with greater amounts of Anti-wear (AW) and Extreme Pressure (EP) additives and it will work, but what about ring seal ?
Dyno testing has proven that fatter (richer) oil/fuel ratios make more power and it's all down to sealing the combustion chamber during the firing/combustion process. Probably doesn't matter in a little strimmer, but it's a big deal in bikes/karts and a few people that run saws.

Chainsaws develop minimal BMEP (brake mean effective pressure) compared to other high performance two strokes. This is just a fancy engineering term for less specific power than kart and GP bike engines, which are developing over 400BHP/litre these days. As a consequence HP karts still use around 16:1 mix ratios to prevent seizing.
The interesting thing is that the oil companies often recommend changing to their racing oils from their high performance synthetics at around 14,000 RPM. Saws also cop a caning in terms of temps as they often have their fins blocked with chips and dust, so to my mind why skimp on mix ratio ? 32 to 50:1 is cheap insurance IMO. """

I'd have to agree I'd much rather lose a little power or possibly gum something up than have to replace something I fried... Cleaning is free replacing costs money! Alota good info btw just ordered a bottle of Klots R50 figured I'd go outside of the box for once instead of runnin stihl or poulan synthetic.
Just figured I'd try clots after reading a few stories from outside their website some of em are pretty crazy, my friends all use amsoil but I thought I'd try n be different haha

 

[dsm382]

i agree with why be so cheap? i mean i cut all this with less then a gal of mix, so what? maybe $5 including bar oil for what a cord or more of wood? sounds cheap to me..

I personal use Amsoil in the wife's truck, yes I read all the hype about it but took the word of an good buddy of mine in SC who has owned and operated an engine shop that builds mostly drag engines for 40+ years.
He has seen many a engine that has run Amsoil and shows how GOOD the oil is. but that is just my $.03.
Plus love changing oil only once a year on the wifes truck.

still running the Sthil oil in the orange bottle in the saws, have never thought of Amsoil, might look into it...

 

[Fish]

Do a search!!!!!!!!!

How's that Gary?