any advice for a new saw owner?

[tater1337]

you must have posted this as I was typing

people on here are just trying to help, and offer their own opinions. If you even hint at felling dangerous, rotten, even remotely close to power line trees in a thread about your first chain saw, expect people to respond. This is not to put you in your place, rather to help you realize how dangerous this can be and hopefully advise you as to the best course of action.

cheers,
Joe

oh yes, i am very worried about doing felling the trees, and even the professional are leery, you don't think i don't understand this? have i ever refereed to it as anything besides a nightmare? only ones that will try are people who I don't trust, who don't use safety equipment, so I am planning on doing it myself, not because I am confident that I can do it, but because I am confident that it is dangerous to let others to. and I will NOT do it until i am confident that I can do it safely.

so far the biggest course of action that has been advised to me is to not do it, or get a professional, every professional that I've tried has less sense of safety than I do, and as of yesterday, I didn't even have a chainsaw. competency of "professionals" should be another thread. gaining confidence in felling tress should be another thread, and felling trees in sticky situations like this should be another thread.

THIS thread should be about what to get after buying a new chainsaw.

 

[tater1337]

note: i'm not angry about the replies here, sorry if i sound that way, seems so many people want to tell me the same thing, without getting the full story or understanding my position.

don't worry, i like being safe, I am not planning anything dangerous, I am not excited about getting a new chainsaw, and am not chomping at the bit to get cutting.

 

[Trigger Man]

Ah to hell with it, go knock'em down, whats the worst that could happen!
is that what you want to hear?

I don't know if you can't read or what but these guys are telling you to wise up and get some professional help this is not a job for a rookie, and in some cases not for professionals either judging by the you tube video's.

Sorry if that sounded harsh, but the reality is that you ethier pay a pro to do the job, or pay through the nose to the power company if something goes wrong. Either way some things in life cost money. If you think you can get out of this without it costing you thats your first mistake.

 

[Taxmantoo]

You want advice?

Handbook for fallers and buckers:
http://tinyurl.com/dxa9yj

Safety vid:
http://www.lni.wa.gov/Safety/TrainTools/Videos/Library/catalog.asp?VideoID=V0969

Safety vid, especially for people falling damaged or dead trees:
http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/safety/council/newsletters/may06/may06.html

But a rotting 80' hazard tree sounds like bucket truck work.

 

[Bounty Hunter]

note: i'm not angry about the replies here, sorry if i sound that way, seems so many people want to tell me the same thing, without getting the full story or understanding my position.

don't worry, i like being safe, I am not planning anything dangerous, I am not excited about getting a new chainsaw, and am not chomping at the bit to get cutting.

Dude, any new chainsaw is a good thing...

But as said before...git the safety gear and learn all the safe cutting practices before you go out and have a time with it. Get chaps fer sure and a hard hat (look at the accident statistics / body injury location chart...A LOT of chainsaw head injuries).

And lastly, do assume that "little" saws are the most dangerous ones...I have had more close calls with small saws than with big ones.

 

[BuddhaKat]

second, I dont think they are rotten enough for barberchair-ing. but I do agree with you that it is risky and i will only attempt it when I am fully confident that I can fell them without problems.

considering how cautious I am about chainsaws to begin with. I'll either come up with a bulletproof plan to fell them or I wont do it.

please remember, I am not an expert, and until you have seen the situation, neither are you

Not to worry about offending me. I assure you, you're not. But here's the thing. You've obviously got some sort of grasp on the danger involved with chainsaws and felling. By your own admission, you've never done either. The problem is, even the experts get it wrong at times. Why do you think we park our trucks so far away? You are correct though, until I see exactly what you're dealing with, I can't claim to be an expert on your situation. I can say that based on what you're describing, this kind of job is way over your head. Pro's get killed every year by trees they didn't think would barber chair. So, I may not be an expert on your job, but I do make my living doing this. I'm going to fall on the side of caution and say that if a job like yours would concern me, you shouldn't be attempting it at all.

note: i'm not angry about the replies here, sorry if i sound that way, seems so many people want to tell me the same thing, without getting the full story or understanding my position.

don't worry, i like being safe, I am not planning anything dangerous, I am not excited about getting a new chainsaw, and am not chomping at the bit to get cutting.

I think you described the circumstances well enough for the pro's here to speak with certainty. Whether you listen or not is up to you.

 

[StihlyinEly]

Tater, here's a link to an active and related thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=132789

And here's another one: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=132715

As for the felling business, the guys here are just making sure you stay safe. And they care enough to advise a stranger to stay safe. That's a nice thing to do. "Thank you" might be a good response to people like that.

 

[gwiley]

oh yes, i am very worried about doing felling the trees, and even the professional are leery, you don't think i don't understand this? have i ever refereed to it as anything besides a nightmare? only ones that will try are people who I don't trust, who don't use safety equipment, so I am planning on doing it myself, not because I am confident that I can do it, but because I am confident that it is dangerous to let others to. and I will NOT do it until i am confident that I can do it safely.

so far the biggest course of action that has been advised to me is to not do it, or get a professional, every professional that I've tried has less sense of safety than I do, and as of yesterday, I didn't even have a chainsaw. competency of "professionals" should be another thread. gaining confidence in felling tress should be another thread, and felling trees in sticky situations like this should be another thread.

THIS thread should be about what to get after buying a new chainsaw.

You forgot one advantage to have a professional do it (even if they are less safety aware than you).....you aren't the one who ends up dead/bankrupt/crippled in the event of a mishap

I had a neighbor point out 4 standing dead pines and ask me to take them down. I told her that I wouldn't touch them with a saw and even had misgivings about pushing them over with a skid steer (visions of wearing my FOPS on my shoulders). I told her that she needed to get a pro in there. The very next day I saw 3 of the 4 on the groud from light winds!!!! Those bloody things would probably have broken off in the trunk if I had even touched them.

Don't be offended - folks here just enjoy the community and really hate to hear about injuries or fatalities so they are naturally conservative. Tough to not get a little wrankled when we feel put down - but most folks here have your best interests in mind.

 

[mo239]

Not sure why the power company won't come out and drop that line for you. Around here you call em up they'll come out and drop it, considering its only two wires its pretty easy for them. Not sure why they won't do this where you live, though.

 

[Trigger Man]

Not sure why the power company won't come out and drop that line for you. Around here you call em up they'll come out and drop it, considering its only two wires its pretty easy for them. Not sure why they won't do this where you live, though.

:agree2: Usually they don't mind. Sometimes it takes awhile to get them out, but usually they don't charge, especially if it could interfere with service to other homes. Saves them coming out in a storm.

 

[gwiley]

rotten trunks

Someone here mentioned barber chair as a potential risk of rotten trunks, there is a little more to it.

A barber chair happens when the trunk is under stress (a forward leaning tree) beyond the strength of the wood fibers in the portion of the trunk above your back cut. The risk is increased with a rotten/hollow core on the trunk because there is less fiber holding the "back" of the trunk as the face cut induces the tree forward.

ANother risk of a rotten/hollow core is that you run out of hinge unexpectedly. The hinge is essential for directing the fall, if the hinge is inadequate then you rely on the alignment of the planets to direct the fall.

If you have your mind set on falling these (not impossible, just risky) then I would keeps these ideas in mind:

- One way to help control barber chair is to use strong straps (10,000lb rated) or chains with ratchet binders above the back cut to prevent the split.
- one way to deal with a hollow core is to leave a thicker hinge than the typical 10%.
- watch the top of the tree as you cut - if it starts to move get away from the trunk
- listen carefully for signs of failure
- watch the kerf, if it starts to set back or you see wierd crap getting pulled out then you are officially in danger
- watch the way the falling wedges look and how much force is needed - if they go in too easily or you see the wood around the wedg etart to give then you are officailly in danger.

If there is any way at all get a pull line in place, use a throw line to get it 30-40 feet into the tree at least. Use bull rope with a strong rating (11,000lb breaking strength) and a good anchor point. A redirect can help if your rope is too short. A few good men to put pressure on the tree can help, too much and you increase your risk of barber chair.

This can be done safely, just best done by someone who is trained or has a lot of experience taking hazard trees down.

Take pictures and let us know how it works out - if things go wrong it is always nice to share what you learn with the rest of us so that we can learn via the less expensive school (some else's hard knocks). You will get plenty of sympathy here too (just ignore the dorks that have a mean streak or a bad day).

 

[CGC4200]

high voltage lines

Our electric utility company has an ongoing program using large
tree service companies to clear right of way around distribution lines.
They will respond to a call ASAP on the high voltage lines, but the
service drop from transformer to house/building is low priority.

If you cut a tree & it is heading towards a utility power line feeding
a transformer, beat feet away. Even out here in the sticks, the lines
are around 7200 V to ground. One contact with this voltage will ruin
your day.

 

[billmartin]

I've been digging out scrap metal from around my newly purchased farmhouse and hauling to the scrap yard and bought a saw

I'm new, so don't laugh, it was on clearance, plus GF got an employee discount.

craftsman 40cc 18" #358.350830

my only research I did was read "barnacle parps chainsaw guide" a free pdf from third world cd (they got pdfs for EVERYTHING) copyright 1977.

I wasn't really looking for a saw, as I had a guy comming over to deal with the trees i didn't want, but he wasn't the brightest of the bunch.

anyway, it is a mini saw, and it only came with the following
chain saw
chain adjustment tool
lil bottle of 2 cycle oil
carrying case(with spots for extra stuff like files)
manual

edit:I have quite a bit of safety gear, but probably have to buy chaps. got air compressor too for blowing junk out of it after use. I only plan on using it at a rate of 1 tree a month,i.e. landscaping not for heating fuel purposes

so what else should i pick up before i start it? the obvious one is chain oil. Parp says I get an extra
bar - i'd like a shorter one, but how to cross reference?
chain
sprocket
spark plug
sharpening tools

anyone got anything else to add, or an order i should prioritize this list in? I've done some cutting when I was younger, but nothing serious, and I shudder about what i didnt know then that i know now.

Back on topic, the only thing you might want to add to your beginner kit is some small and med falling wedges. You can pound them in the kerf/cut if you need to keep it from closing up while bucking.
Otherwise you might end up with a stuck saw and have to spend an hour with an ax rescuing your saw. Not fun I know lol.

Get a good grip on sharpening, I'm still working on this myself, but getting better.

As for oil... search away.

I think some one posted a link to a shorter bar thread for your type/model saw.
As everyone has let you know rotten is deadly or can be.

I care as do most here about our fellow man and your safety

Bill

 

[DSS]

The power company cut a right of way through the woods behind the asphalt plant where I work last year. The company rep and I were looking things over , and I commented on several nice yellow birch right on the edge of the cut. He says ''hope you're not thinking of dropping them, that line is 110,000 volts''.

All righty then.



Those are the safest trees on the :censored: planet.

 

[BuddhaKat]

As for oil... search away.

Bill

I think there might be some info on oil around here somewhere. You might have to do a little searching though. You don't see a lot of discussion about oil that much.

 

[StihlyinEly]

I think there might be some info on oil around here somewhere. You might have to do a little searching though. You don't see a lot of discussion about oil.

 

[tater1337]

Back on topic, the only thing you might want to add to your beginner kit is some small and med falling wedges. You can pound them in the kerf/cut if you need to keep it from closing up while bucking.
Otherwise you might end up with a stuck saw and have to spend an hour with an ax rescuing your saw. Not fun I know lol.

Get a good grip on sharpening, I'm still working on this myself, but getting better.

As for oil... search away.

I think some one posted a link to a shorter bar thread for your type/model saw.
As everyone has let you know rotten is deadly or can be.

I care as do most here about our fellow man and your safety

Bill

heh, had to use my axe to save my pruning saw couple years ago. i agree, not fun. I have a healthy respect for the dangers of chainsaws, hence i've been (mis)using pruning saws and axes. it's downright loveley to hear the first cracks of a 18" trunk and be able to saunter away to watch it fall from a good distance. took a week for this flabby office type to swing the axe enough to get it that far(but i wasn't trying hard), I could do it in an hour this summer.

maybe a bit sacreligous, but an axe is one of the most handiest things for a new homeowner with a wooded lot. it just is a real pain doing big trees with them.

glad to see we are back on topic, yep I added wedges to my shopping list, and today i picked up a file and guide plus a quart of bar oil in case I do get in the mood to actually start the thing.

tried pulling the bar off. the intenz tensioner is junk, at least the craftsman version is. I do see on the sprocket cover the moldings for conventional tensioners, so I would just have to get parts that fit.

Yes I posted in the other thread about shorter bars.

did a quick inventory of my ppe gear, and i only need chaps. maybe muffs too but I got plugs, but would prefer both.

 

[StihlyinEly]

did a quick inventory of my ppe gear, and i only need chaps. maybe muffs too but I got plugs, but would prefer both.

Either muffs or plugs will work. Pay attention to the sound rating on the plugs if you go that route. I have the Stihl all-in-one of hardhat, muffs and face shield. It's a good way to go, but not the ONLY way to go.

I run Labonville full-wrap Kevlar chaps. More protection around the calf than standard style chaps, and for the love of Pete, as much as I'm a Stihl ho, tricking out in full orange from head to foot was just a little too strong for me. Love that Labonville green!

 

[BuddhaKat]

Sound probably isn't that big of a deal on a saw that size, but the chaps are worth their weight in gold. In my company, no saw with a chain on it runs without the operator wearing chaps. No exceptions, not even for me.

I once slipped and hit my leg with the chain running full speed. Fortunately I just dredged a little channel, but that was enough of a scare to make me a convert for life. Chaps are worth their weight in gold. The more Kevlar the better too. When I'm cutting I always wear the Kevlar gloves too. I use the ones from Amick's. They're great.

 

[edisto]

I came here to post about what a guy should get when he gets his first chain saw. lets try to keep to that. at this stage I have just finished reading the manual, made up a list of things to get, and will be planning on cutting some wood in the next week(NOT felling trees).

I think what happened was that you exaggerated the situation you were hoping to work up to. I do the same thing both before, and after I cut. Just don't be surprised when experienced people get concerned that someone who doesn't know what equipment he needs talks about cutting rotted 80 foot trees near (or nearish) some power lines.

As to your list:

You shouldn't need a spare plug, or a spare chain, or a spare bar, or a sprocket for quite some time. Bar oil, which I didn't see on your list, is cheaper than buying new bars and chains. if you want a different size of bar, Bailey's (follow the link at the top of the page) has a bar locator you can use.

I wouldn't buy any spares atll until you have 10 tanks or so through the Craftsman, because I'm betting you might want to invest in a different saw by then.

No wedges for the time being either. Cut stuff on the ground, and drop trees that are small enough to push over if you get the lean wrong. If you get your bar pinched while bucking, having to get it out with a hand saw is a good reminder not to get it pinched. Either that, or it will induce costly bar-bending yanks and tugs. Depends on your personality.

Files and guides should round out the list. Learn how to use them...it is one of the important skills you will need.

Shake the gas can whenever you use it, and keep your filter clean.

As for the rotten trees...if you have a brace and auger bits, you can use them to see just how rotten the trees are. It might not be an issue. If they are rotten, there is a book on falling written by a professional that gives excellent advice on how to handle such a situation. The advice is "WALK AWAY".

About power lines. When a big line breaks, it trips a breaker. These breakers will kick themselves back on 3-4 times before staying off. Everything may look dead and safe, but the juice will come back. I got to see it happen once (from a safe distance).

Dropping your house line might not cause this, and might not put enough voltage on the ground to cause damage, but just in case, the safe (and silly-looking) thing to do is keep your feet together and "bunny hop" out of the way. Voltage isn't an issue, but differences in voltage are. The voltage decreases from the point that the line is on the ground in concentric rings. Walking with normal steps can cause a difference in potential that allows current to travel through your body. Keeping your feet together minimizes the chances of this happening.