Best wood to burn?
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max2cam
ArboristSite Guru
bwalker said:
I was down in the Milwaukee-Racine area for a month and happened to be reading 1830s surveyor notes online. Notes mentioned beech trees right around where I was staying at my sister's house.
So when my sister and I were out walking the dog we looked for beech trees. They must be rather rare south of Milwaukee because it took a lot of looking before we found a grove of them growing along the Root River. Very impressive trees with smooth gray bark.
max2cam
ArboristSite Guru
IMO the BEST firewood is that which you can get the most of for the least cost and effort.
Of course if there are 2 different species side-by-side equally easy to get, it would wise to go with the species with the higher density (i.e. oak vs. pine).
However, if pine or some other "inferior" firewood is growing profusely right outside your door and it's easy to cut and cheap to transport, then the lesser density wood might be the right choice.
I cut everything right here on my own "round" 30 acres and take EVERYTHING that is dead or downed or for whatever reason a tree needs cutting. I get a mixture of species and take it off the pile that way: oak, birch, black ash, popple, red & silver maple, jack pine, spruce, and even a little balsam fir and red pine.
It ALL burns.....
Of course if there are 2 different species side-by-side equally easy to get, it would wise to go with the species with the higher density (i.e. oak vs. pine).
However, if pine or some other "inferior" firewood is growing profusely right outside your door and it's easy to cut and cheap to transport, then the lesser density wood might be the right choice.
I cut everything right here on my own "round" 30 acres and take EVERYTHING that is dead or downed or for whatever reason a tree needs cutting. I get a mixture of species and take it off the pile that way: oak, birch, black ash, popple, red & silver maple, jack pine, spruce, and even a little balsam fir and red pine.
It ALL burns.....
max2cam
ArboristSite Guru
bwalker said:
Yeah, white pine stumps in your area too.
Do yours show evidence of fire blackening? It's quite evident on mine. This is sand barrens here (actually a river valley in the sand barrens). Negaunee is heavy soil I imagine good for the BIG white pine forest. Here the white pine grew mainly along the river and around the lakes where natural fire normally didn't reach. The pine barrens proper were mostly jack pine and brush prairie.
max2cam
ArboristSite Guru
460Ted said:
If cut really green I'd like to give jack pine a year to season under cover.
Usually I cut dead standing stuff with some of it pretty wet/green still. I split it in the woods during winter and haul it home in the spring and throw it on a pile. Also that same spring I stack some of it under cover and will burn it the following winter so much of mine only gets maybe 6 months seasoning time under cover which seems adequate.
Pine seems to season pretty fast. You can tell when jack pine is seasoned as it splits much easier dry than when green. Also when it is really green you can see water come out of it when you hit it with the maul. Then I just split the BIG knotty green pieces with 2 wedges into halves or 4 big pieces and then split those again when they are dry and MUCH EASY to split as I take them off the under cover pile.
VERY important to get your wood under cover for it to season properly. I sometimes cheat and take wood off my pile out in the open. After one heavy rain it is almost USELESS as firewood having soaked up a TON of water. But during a spell of dry weather it dries out and burns good. But come a good rain and forget it....
Blowdown1
ArboristSite Operative
It seems like pine retains/absorbs moisture more readily than oak at least. I let most of my oak season uncovered and then cover it for the last few months before burning. I've even burned (w/ good results) oak that was just cut and split because it had come down a bit over a year prior in a hurricane.
I still have pine logs laying around that are soaked. Hit it with the maul and stuff splatters on your face and oozes all over the place (and the maul goes nowhere). Get it covered and split though and you can have some good dry logs that are great for getting a hot fire going quickly.
One nice thing about hardwoods is that nice crisp "clank" when well seasoned pieces are banged together, letting you know you have nicely seasoned wood. Pine always seems to have a dull thud and you have to go by weight to feel if it is dry.
I still have pine logs laying around that are soaked. Hit it with the maul and stuff splatters on your face and oozes all over the place (and the maul goes nowhere). Get it covered and split though and you can have some good dry logs that are great for getting a hot fire going quickly.
One nice thing about hardwoods is that nice crisp "clank" when well seasoned pieces are banged together, letting you know you have nicely seasoned wood. Pine always seems to have a dull thud and you have to go by weight to feel if it is dry.
Yes, they do. When you refer to pine barrrens are you talking about glacial outwash plains where the soil is sandy and the topography flat for the most part? If so we have areas like that up here just to the south and north of me( good blueberry patches). Actually the area where my house is situated is the begining of the Huron mountains. 10 miles as the crow flies NW of my house the "mountians" start in ernest so its mostly rolling hills where I live with lots of rock outcroppings on the ridge lines. To this day some 100+ year old white pines are still standing on these ridge tops because they can not be accessed by machine or in the old days draft animals.
Now back to wood. As far as which has the most moisture content. Oak or pine? I would say Red Oak has more moisture in the wood than any pine. I have cut Gypsy moth killed Red Oak in north central lower MI that where standing dead for tens years and the wood was still very wet inside. Red Oak never seasons unless plit from what I have seen.
bwalker is correct IMO , Red Oak standing dead will never season. I had several that where killed buy some sort of insect infestation between 8 and 10 years ago , I dropped them , cut them and when I went to split them the splitter drew water when it hit the log.
bwalker , could this non-seasoning of the standing oaks be attributed to the way they where killed , will any tree that's killed by insects not season if still standing?
I can tell you that one year later it burns great!
Jeff
bwalker , could this non-seasoning of the standing oaks be attributed to the way they where killed , will any tree that's killed by insects not season if still standing?
I can tell you that one year later it burns great!
Jeff
Chainsaw Master
ArboristSite Operative
On the pine stumps...I would imagine that they are a mix of white/norway and some cedar......all depending where the stumps are at. Norway likes to grow on clay and sand, while white pine likes lower land and swamp. I've seen some cedar stumps 2-3 foot in dia. along the Ausable river, with the axe marks from the logger cutting the notch on them. From what I've heard they"re all burned from the farmers burning the pine slash to get grass to grow for cattle grazing.
I have seen logs in the Ausable and Manistee rivers with the log stamps on them.
ross_scott
ArboristSite Guru
Here in new zealand we burn tea tree, eucalyptus, macrocarpa (cypress), black wattyl these are classed as premium firewoods over here due to the slowness of the burning and also the amount of heat these varieties of wood put out pine just burns too fast and fouls up the chimney but is ok when you are desperate to keep your butt warm.
max2cam
ArboristSite Guru
bwalker said:
Yes, pine barrens that are sandy pitted outwash plains. Here they are the result of some higher stage of glacial age Lake Superior that drained south through the Bois Brule and St. Croix rivers. Like you say, mostly flat to gently rolling sands with areas of lakes. On the drier areas it was mostly jackpine or brush prairie with white and red pine in the more protected areas. It's all mostly grown up in trees today with a few open "barrens" that the DNR keeps that way with controlled burns. Lots of wood ticks.
Interesting about the big pine in the Huron Mtns. They could be way older than 100 years. I have some 100 year old red pine that is mere 2nd growth. If those Huron Mtn. pines are original forest, white pine can live like 400 years or more. I wonder if anyone has aged those trees?
My great-uncle lived west of the Huron Mtns. outside of Skanee, Mich. He had a place sort of in the woods and trapped in those hills. The one time I visited him (1976) he was an old guy and didn't trap anymore. We went into the hills in his truck as far as the Big Huron River. He wanted me to take my motorcycle (50FL) thru the Huron Mtns. west to east to Big Bay. But I declined the honor. I did visit Mt. Curwood on my way home and a old slate quarry up there with some stuctures made of slate.
bwalker said:
I just read something interesting on that subject from an old 1867 report that says: "Greenwood also contains water in different proportions, both as to kind of wood, and different specimens of the same kind...A difference also exists as to the qualities of the water contained in the wood, as to the capability of being expelled by seasoning; thus the acidulous properties of red oak will not permit it to become completely dried by mere action of the air; and, therefore, it frequently happens that wood placed high in a table of values of fuel, based on woods thoroughly kiln-dried, ought in actual practice to be placed much lower in a table for every day use." -- Report on the Disastrous Effects of the Destruction of Forest Fires.... (Madison, 1867), 56.
max2cam
ArboristSite Guru
bwalker said:
I have found old sunken logs from the 19th century in the Totogatic River here while snorkeling, but still am still looking for one with a log stamp on it.
max2cam
ArboristSite Guru
Chainsaw Master said:
It looks to me like just about EVERYWHERE burned over the pineries 19th century post-logging. Like you say, settlers hoping to farm burned to clear land and it was always escaping from them. Then imagine the amount of slashings lying around for fuel and no fire control of any kind and no wide road or highways to act as firebreaks. Only a guy with a shovel.
The biggest standing white cedar I have seen was in the great bog of the upper Bois Brulé river. They were large like 100 year old red pine and tall too. But you could hardly walk thru those trees because the fallen ones didn't rot and their bare branches were like sharp bayonets stabbing you. Trying to restore the white cedar here but deer make it difficult.
From my own cutting I'd say that red pine stumps decay much faster than white pine. But I'm not exactly sure what my old 100 year old stumps are (red, white, or both), and I would like to find that out.
max2cam said:
My philosophy exactly. I express it as "max BTU for minimum dollars". In my case, hardwood is almost non-existant. Premium wood here is red fir/tamarack. For that, I need to make a 150 mile round trip and spend all day to bring home less than a cord on my F150. Instead, I burn lots of Black Willow. Leave house, go 14 miles (currently), back in about 4-5 hours with a load. Yes, I burn a lot more wood but...
Harry K
Max, I snowmobile form my house to Skanee throught he Hurons during the winter quit often. This area is one of, if not the remotest areas in MI. beutiful country.
Ever been to Billy the Finns in Skanee?
Ever been to Billy the Finns in Skanee?
Blowdown1
ArboristSite Operative
You guys talking of red oak retaining moisture makes me wonder if a lot of people use it for firewood. The oak I mostly use (and which seems to season quickly) is white oak. I have noticed that the red oak I have just does not want to burn as well, like it is not seasoned well, but it has been split much longer than the white that I have been burning.
Red oak season just fine once its split. White oak is better though when both are equally dry.
max2cam
ArboristSite Guru
bwalker said:
Snomobiling thru the Huron Mtns must be really nice. It must be quite beautiful.
When I visited my great-uncle in 1976 I did stop at a tavern in Skanee first trying to locate his place. I don't recall the name but it seemed to be a hangout for the locals. They knew him very well and it seemed like that tavern had been there a long time already.
I should already know this, but what does Negaunee mean translated from the Ojibwe?
max2cam
ArboristSite Guru
turnkey4099 said:
Yep, you takes what you can obtain for the least effort and cost. I like your motto: "Max BTU; min $$".
There are ppl I know who refuse to burn "softwoods" of any description due to their belief that it will clog their chimney with creosote leading to a fatal chimney fire. They have nice dry standing dead jackpine all around their place but will BUY scrub oak or birch that they still have to cut up and split. They pay $$ plus still have most of the work to do anyway.
