Buying a saddle
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jsirbasku
ArboristSite Member
Will,
I have a b'fly and have not modified it(yet)! I am not so sure that I will modify it either , most people as Tom said, replace the strap between the alum rings because it is a little long and after youve clipped in your hitch is further away from you than you may be used to. I have long arms(simian thing ya know) and i have typically always liked my hitch far away, when you need to body thrust you go much further with each stroke and your muscles can pull better from further out than in real close. Sometimes on a limb walk when you come close to horizontal with your tie in and your reaching and streching to get out to the end of the limb, youll find that your hitch is just out of reach. This can sometimes be challenging.
I guess what im saying is that I like the b'fly just the way it is and may or may not modify it in the future. It is very comfortable, lightweight, has plenty of room for gadgetry and does threaten the family jewels like some other saddles i have tried.
For clipping in I use one biner with a spliced split tail and climb line.
I also climb in a New Tribe work Harness, another very comfortable saddle that I really like.
Tom, I looked at the pictures on the above link, I cannot tell exactly what you have in place of the yellow strap. Last i saw you had the steel hoop on there, but now it looks like something new,
What is it?
J sirbasku
I have a b'fly and have not modified it(yet)! I am not so sure that I will modify it either , most people as Tom said, replace the strap between the alum rings because it is a little long and after youve clipped in your hitch is further away from you than you may be used to. I have long arms(simian thing ya know) and i have typically always liked my hitch far away, when you need to body thrust you go much further with each stroke and your muscles can pull better from further out than in real close. Sometimes on a limb walk when you come close to horizontal with your tie in and your reaching and streching to get out to the end of the limb, youll find that your hitch is just out of reach. This can sometimes be challenging.
I guess what im saying is that I like the b'fly just the way it is and may or may not modify it in the future. It is very comfortable, lightweight, has plenty of room for gadgetry and does threaten the family jewels like some other saddles i have tried.
For clipping in I use one biner with a spliced split tail and climb line.
I also climb in a New Tribe work Harness, another very comfortable saddle that I really like.
Tom, I looked at the pictures on the above link, I cannot tell exactly what you have in place of the yellow strap. Last i saw you had the steel hoop on there, but now it looks like something new,
What is it?
J sirbasku
jsirbasku
ArboristSite Member
Tom,
I found a better picture,
looks like webbing strap fed thru garden hose?
with biners clipped through webbing of harness and knot the alum rings?
I found a better picture,
looks like webbing strap fed thru garden hose?
with biners clipped through webbing of harness and knot the alum rings?
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
John,
We missed you at the MnTCC but you had more important things to do that day
That picture was of Version II. I took a twelve inch Spectra Super Tape sling and girth hitched one side to the aluminum ring and then used a screw link on the other. After that, III, I slid a piece of fiber reinforced plastic over the webbing. This is the tubing that is used for the spray nozzle at the kitchen sink. This saves wear on the webbing.
I went through a couple of versions before settling on the stainless rod. I just added a swivel pulley on Wednesday:
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/products2.cfm?product=S0401
The one with the closed eye. So far, it seems to swivel nice. At 1/3 the price of a Petzl swivel and a pulley, it is a deal.
I talked with them and they rate the swivel that I bought on a 5:1 safety factor. This company has the best prices on SS gear. I am going to get some shackles to trick out my saddle. The SS ones are lighter and stronger than the steel ones from MR.
Tom
We missed you at the MnTCC but you had more important things to do that day
That picture was of Version II. I took a twelve inch Spectra Super Tape sling and girth hitched one side to the aluminum ring and then used a screw link on the other. After that, III, I slid a piece of fiber reinforced plastic over the webbing. This is the tubing that is used for the spray nozzle at the kitchen sink. This saves wear on the webbing.
I went through a couple of versions before settling on the stainless rod. I just added a swivel pulley on Wednesday:
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/products2.cfm?product=S0401
The one with the closed eye. So far, it seems to swivel nice. At 1/3 the price of a Petzl swivel and a pulley, it is a deal.
I talked with them and they rate the swivel that I bought on a 5:1 safety factor. This company has the best prices on SS gear. I am going to get some shackles to trick out my saddle. The SS ones are lighter and stronger than the steel ones from MR.
Tom
jsirbasku
ArboristSite Member
so you do still have the metal hoop? Still the original w mild steel or have gone to the next level and fabricated the arc out of hardened or stainless? I like the idea of a pulley underneath. I have consisered replacing the strap with round rope to accomodate a pulley, but didnt want attachment knots at the rings and im sure the distance between the rings is too short for a splice( let alone 2) the super tape with prtective cover is a great idea!
WillClimb
ArboristSite Operative
J -
Just wondering about the split tail. So, the split-tail itself is girth-hitched to the 'biner. Then, the end of the climbing line is attached to the same 'biner with a knot? Seems like all that rope that would throw the 'biner off balance a little. You using a double-fisherman for the non-spliced line?
Well, the saddle should be in today so I'll check it out.
Just wondering about the split tail. So, the split-tail itself is girth-hitched to the 'biner. Then, the end of the climbing line is attached to the same 'biner with a knot? Seems like all that rope that would throw the 'biner off balance a little. You using a double-fisherman for the non-spliced line?
Well, the saddle should be in today so I'll check it out.
jsirbasku
ArboristSite Member
will,
I use a hollow braid split tail , which yes is girth hitched to the biner, and the climb line is also spliced which is not girth hitched to the biner, just clipped in.
The hollow braid even when girth hitched does not take up a lot of space.
It is a very sleek system with very little slop or play , even while body thrusting( which i do a lot of).
I use a hollow braid split tail , which yes is girth hitched to the biner, and the climb line is also spliced which is not girth hitched to the biner, just clipped in.
The hollow braid even when girth hitched does not take up a lot of space.
It is a very sleek system with very little slop or play , even while body thrusting( which i do a lot of).
WillClimb
ArboristSite Operative
J - (or anyone)
That's an awesome picture and it helps a lot. One question though:
I thought the whole reason for a split-tail setup, was so that there would be a separate 'biner to unclip, allowing you to quickly advance the climbing line to a new crotch without untying the hitch - as in the alternate lanyard technique. How can this be accomplished with both lines terminating into the same 'biner?
Thanks -
Will
That's an awesome picture and it helps a lot. One question though:
I thought the whole reason for a split-tail setup, was so that there would be a separate 'biner to unclip, allowing you to quickly advance the climbing line to a new crotch without untying the hitch - as in the alternate lanyard technique. How can this be accomplished with both lines terminating into the same 'biner?
Thanks -
Will
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
John,
Great picture, can you show us the rest of the peg board? Is that in your shop or in your truck?
That is a nice compact setup. If a person wanted more room on the biner, an HMS style biner could be used. It is tidier to have only one biner. For recrotching all the climber has to do is drop out the spliced end. Not difference than unclipping a second biner.
When is Thanksgiving Day in Canada? Do you eat turkey with all the fixins like the Americans?
Tom
Great picture, can you show us the rest of the peg board? Is that in your shop or in your truck?
That is a nice compact setup. If a person wanted more room on the biner, an HMS style biner could be used. It is tidier to have only one biner. For recrotching all the climber has to do is drop out the spliced end. Not difference than unclipping a second biner.
When is Thanksgiving Day in Canada? Do you eat turkey with all the fixins like the Americans?
Tom
WillClimb
ArboristSite Operative
OK, understood. The less gear, the less mess. I cant stand the 'biners catching on each other when body-thrusting anyway. It can make your heart jump if you're not paying attention.
So, is there any reason why the climbing line (XTC Pro, I'm assuming) isn't girth hitched like the split-tail?
So, is there any reason why the climbing line (XTC Pro, I'm assuming) isn't girth hitched like the split-tail?
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
John will give you his reasons I am sure.
My preferance is to use a tight eye splice in the climbing line. By girth hitching the split tail it captures the biner incase the climber comes under the spell of the evil "Fumblies". It is SUCH a bummer to drop biners...
The eye splice is quick and easy to slip on and off.
Tom
My preferance is to use a tight eye splice in the climbing line. By girth hitching the split tail it captures the biner incase the climber comes under the spell of the evil "Fumblies". It is SUCH a bummer to drop biners...
The eye splice is quick and easy to slip on and off.
Tom
jsirbasku
ArboristSite Member
Hey guys,
The main reason i dont use 2 biners is because of the slop in the bridge when not loaded, ie; (body thrusting), always when body thrusting that lone biner under the bridge of the split tail seems to flopp around a bit and sometimes get twisted up in a funny way, youve probably experienced it. This always drove me nuts, not to mention the noise of all the hardware clanging around.
With just the one biner for splittail and working end of the line when i pull up into a body thrust, the bridge still slacks of coarse, but the biner is held into position by the constant pull of the climbing line in front of me, so there is hardly anyways slop going on., as i said erarlier i tie my hitch out a ways ,it is usually at my full arms length away. This makes body thrusting much faster. Ive tried other hitches such as th VT, MT (or whatever), also tried the schwabisch, but all of those hitches are too short for my preference and do not allow for proficient body thrusting.
The reason the climb line is not girth hitched is because, well,
well Will Im not sure. I havent exactly tried it but i think just clipping into the splice(ungirthed) is a little quicker(fraction of a second maybe). Anyway when recrotching all i do is buck in somewhere of coarse, then open up the biner and remove only the working end of the line, the biner stays clipped into to the harness along with split tail end of the rig. Then I simply pull the line from my 1st tie in and place thru my new tie in, then i open up that biner again and drop the spliced eye back into position.
I caryy with me a second FC, a second biner with split tail and the other end of my line is also spliced, i usually have that 2nd end of line all set up to go and clipped on my saddle for a dual tie in. I can set up a second tie in in seconds by doing this, wihtout having to pullup the other end of the line attaching a snp or biner and clipping in, then tying in a hitch. Again the other end is rigged and ready to go, merely clip the rig into harness, put the line thru the tie in and back to your self.
Also will, i do carry a second biner for each rigged end of the line, just in case i may want 2 biners in the system. This is helpful when using your line as a 2nd lanyard during ascent, or sometimes for splitting apart the climb line. to work between them.
Tom - i had a feeling youd be one to ask about my "drawing board" in the back ground. Ive recntly framed and sheetrocked my garage interior and figured i had to set up an area for my climbing / rigging ideas to take off from. Not much on it just some spare biner, snaps, slings etc, and some older ascenders im considering retiring and what not.
PS Im more than happy to post pics of anything of interest to you boys(well not anything!) Let me know, if i dont have a pic to show i can take one.
Time to get ready to prepare some Turkey for tonights feast, I wish you all a happy and safe thanksgiving holiday. I'll check back this evening, that is if im still awake.
The main reason i dont use 2 biners is because of the slop in the bridge when not loaded, ie; (body thrusting), always when body thrusting that lone biner under the bridge of the split tail seems to flopp around a bit and sometimes get twisted up in a funny way, youve probably experienced it. This always drove me nuts, not to mention the noise of all the hardware clanging around.
With just the one biner for splittail and working end of the line when i pull up into a body thrust, the bridge still slacks of coarse, but the biner is held into position by the constant pull of the climbing line in front of me, so there is hardly anyways slop going on., as i said erarlier i tie my hitch out a ways ,it is usually at my full arms length away. This makes body thrusting much faster. Ive tried other hitches such as th VT, MT (or whatever), also tried the schwabisch, but all of those hitches are too short for my preference and do not allow for proficient body thrusting.
The reason the climb line is not girth hitched is because, well,
well Will Im not sure. I havent exactly tried it but i think just clipping into the splice(ungirthed) is a little quicker(fraction of a second maybe). Anyway when recrotching all i do is buck in somewhere of coarse, then open up the biner and remove only the working end of the line, the biner stays clipped into to the harness along with split tail end of the rig. Then I simply pull the line from my 1st tie in and place thru my new tie in, then i open up that biner again and drop the spliced eye back into position.
I caryy with me a second FC, a second biner with split tail and the other end of my line is also spliced, i usually have that 2nd end of line all set up to go and clipped on my saddle for a dual tie in. I can set up a second tie in in seconds by doing this, wihtout having to pullup the other end of the line attaching a snp or biner and clipping in, then tying in a hitch. Again the other end is rigged and ready to go, merely clip the rig into harness, put the line thru the tie in and back to your self.
Also will, i do carry a second biner for each rigged end of the line, just in case i may want 2 biners in the system. This is helpful when using your line as a 2nd lanyard during ascent, or sometimes for splitting apart the climb line. to work between them.
Tom - i had a feeling youd be one to ask about my "drawing board" in the back ground. Ive recntly framed and sheetrocked my garage interior and figured i had to set up an area for my climbing / rigging ideas to take off from. Not much on it just some spare biner, snaps, slings etc, and some older ascenders im considering retiring and what not.
PS Im more than happy to post pics of anything of interest to you boys(well not anything!) Let me know, if i dont have a pic to show i can take one.
Time to get ready to prepare some Turkey for tonights feast, I wish you all a happy and safe thanksgiving holiday. I'll check back this evening, that is if im still awake.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Have you tried Mahk Adams adjustable bridge?
OOPS, I told him I'd call it the adams bridge from now on .
OOPS, I told him I'd call it the adams bridge from now on
.jsirbasku
ArboristSite Member
JPS,
please elaborate John,
"Adams" adjustable bridge?
help me out, same thoery, different hitch/cord variations?
please elaborate John,
"Adams" adjustable bridge?
help me out, same thoery, different hitch/cord variations?
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
John,
If you go to the-discussion-forum-that-we-aren't supposed-to-name-here and follow the "Distal hitch" and Mahks thread titled "Sliding (Adjustable) Bridge" you will see what JPS is talking about. Also, it is in the Climbers Corner in the current Arborist News, the host of the-discussion-forum-that-we-aren't supposed-to-name-here
Tom
If you go to the-discussion-forum-that-we-aren't supposed-to-name-here and follow the "Distal hitch" and Mahks thread titled "Sliding (Adjustable) Bridge" you will see what JPS is talking about. Also, it is in the Climbers Corner in the current Arborist News, the host of the-discussion-forum-that-we-aren't supposed-to-name-here
Tom
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Adam's bridge (Mahk one)
Mahk's article is best but it is basicly a long splitail with a large spliceye that uses a girth prussick on the working end of the line and a Blake's on the running end with the slack tending suff added in there. You end up being suspended on the one end of your rope and able to move the bridge as far out as your long arms desire. I'm just waiting to remeber to order a splitail to try it out
Mahk's article is best but it is basicly a long splitail with a large spliceye that uses a girth prussick on the working end of the line and a Blake's on the running end with the slack tending suff added in there. You end up being suspended on the one end of your rope and able to move the bridge as far out as your long arms desire. I'm just waiting to remeber to order a splitail to try it out
jsirbasku
ArboristSite Member
thanks guys i'll haed over to that other site and check it out,
and dont worry Darin Ill be back!
and dont worry Darin Ill be back!
Hi Tom,
So I found you again while browsing around...
I always climb on Petzl's Navaho Vario and find it a very well balanced saddle. Of course being so light is it's main feature and it's a personal matter to consider it an advantage or not. I think it is most of the time. For heavy rigging work I use an add-on back pad (the one Sherrill had 2 or 3 years ago). The reason I like the Vario is because I feel good with a tight squeeze on my lower hip (no jokes, please), which is impossible to attain with the butterfly which has a completely different setting. No doubt the butterfly has a great future in tree-climbing, but since almost everyone that uses it feel like changing it in one way or another, I think they've got still some adjustments to make. The Vario is a basic saddle but with years of "field-work" practice behind. I guess sometimes one centimeter more or less on a crucial spot can make a huge difference on a saddle.
Greetings from Italy...
Sergio
http://www.tree-climbing.com
So I found you again while browsing around...
I always climb on Petzl's Navaho Vario and find it a very well balanced saddle. Of course being so light is it's main feature and it's a personal matter to consider it an advantage or not. I think it is most of the time. For heavy rigging work I use an add-on back pad (the one Sherrill had 2 or 3 years ago). The reason I like the Vario is because I feel good with a tight squeeze on my lower hip (no jokes, please), which is impossible to attain with the butterfly which has a completely different setting. No doubt the butterfly has a great future in tree-climbing, but since almost everyone that uses it feel like changing it in one way or another, I think they've got still some adjustments to make. The Vario is a basic saddle but with years of "field-work" practice behind. I guess sometimes one centimeter more or less on a crucial spot can make a huge difference on a saddle.
Greetings from Italy...
Sergio
http://www.tree-climbing.com
DDM
Addicted to ArboristSite
Saddle
Has anyone ever used a Karl Kuemmerling saddle?
Later,
David
Has anyone ever used a Karl Kuemmerling saddle?
Later,
David
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
If you like the old fashiond things. Fresco is selling the Butterfly by Komet of France. It is the latest rage. Probibly the easiest saddle to tweek to your bodies comfort. Some guys run "super modifed" versions. Next i would say the Blair modular system is best.
A lot of people ar turning to shoulder straps too, hold the saddle up and mor space to add jingly stuff to it. In Canada they did a study on comfort and full bodey saddles, turned out most experiance climbers prefered the suspenders after the study finnised.
A lot of people ar turning to shoulder straps too, hold the saddle up and mor space to add jingly stuff to it. In Canada they did a study on comfort and full bodey saddles, turned out most experiance climbers prefered the suspenders after the study finnised.
